How the blazes do you kill ogres

Walrusm3 · Post by **Walrusm3** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:36 pm

Hallo I'm having bit of an ogre problem. The problem is ogres are way to heavy and bulky and massives that I can hardly kill one. Especially since they can allocate wounds through out the entire unit, it's annoying so I was hoping someone could give me ways of helping me become somekind of ogre slayer.

Maul scion of monolith · Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:46 pm

Try using the RBT.. armor piercing (-2) ST4 or single shot ST6, D3 wound.. The problem is that they could regenerate

..

Zakath the slaughterer · Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:47 pm

Especially since they can allocate wounds through out the entire unit,

What? If you cause 3 wounds on an ogre unit, all wounds will go to one model if that's what you mean. Otherwise Trolls would be immortal :roll:

My advice is: WE, DR, RxB dudes, CoB, RBT. That's the way to do it

Mettare · Post by **Mettare** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:50 pm

Lots of magic and shooting, with plenty of fast cav, I'd say.
Always move to within 6" if it looks like you're going to take a charge, as the impact hits are what allows them to beat ranked units.

Knights too. Ogres hate heavy cavalry. Just watch out for the heroes.

And I dread to think what a Highborn on a dragon could do to them...

Maul scion of monolith · Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:52 pm

Oh, btw.. they could not really distribute their damage..

Eg: If there are ooo

Walrusm3 · Post by **Walrusm3** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:56 pm

Hm well my little brother tried repeater bolt throwers on to ogres and wasn't prove much effect but your prehaps right which I really should. And what you mean things like those can't allocate wounds, but that means me and my brother should of been raining dead ogres halliloyay.

Kencaid · Post by **Kencaid** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:01 pm

ya orgres require the charge, if u can take that away from them, u got'm beat (as long as u support your units properly. Coks, DR, harpies (very small unit, just to tie up an ogre unit for a turn until u can properly charge that unit), dragon, manticore, shades, nething with mv 6 or more, ogres will have problems with, RBT is also great, WE work great, posoned attacks really help, and ogres are lightly armored, there just tuff

Maul scion of monolith · Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:04 pm

Oh, btw.. they could not really distribute their damage..

Eg: If there are ooo
o

1 unit ogre (4 model)..

say: you damage the unit with 1 wound.. (Say your opponet put 1 wound at the model at back) the next wound goes to that same model (model at the back).. not other model.. So, the ogre can't put 1 damage on 1 model and the next damage to another model.. So they can't distribute damage evenly.. So, if you do 3 wound (say pass the armour save, etc) then it is slain.. But, it could regenerate.. you should read regeneration rule in page: 113 under special rule.. Regeneration.. "only one attempt for each wound"

Exart · Post by **Exart** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:08 pm

RBTs are very good, witch elves will do a lot of damage if you can get them to cc so that ogres wont butcher them on charge.
DR arnt that good vs ogres but a flank charge to a unit wich has suffered 2 wounds is good, just hope you can take that 1W off the sumo-wrestler before it eats you, against a not so experienced player DR can be very good , since he may not know how to react to your DR unit sitting behind his ogres he may turn 1+ units around or do something else, but gnoblars are what driders can win easily by a side/ass charge, pity they are so cheap its often not worth it.
Executioners are not good, dont use them, they may have S5, but they strike last and with a T3, 5+ AS they are dead before they get to kill more than 1 ogre + killing blow dont help a **** vs ogres.
If you have a unit which would be charged by ogres next turn and cant (dont want to) backpedal or flee, march within 6" of the ogres so they wont get impact hits.
Spearmen can work very well, a bull unit of 3-4 may not even get a tie vs spearelves if you use HW+Sh and take away their impact hits like I mentioned. In my games 3 bulls charging spearmen means 3 bulls running away from spearmen and maybe getting caught.
Always try to cause panic tests, Ld7 is actually very bad and with RBTs and RxBelves you should be able to cause atleast few.

EDIT: 5 posts in the time it took me to write this :roll:

Erloas · Post by **Erloas** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:13 pm

with the allocating wounds... I know in general all wounds are applied to one model at a time and removed... but what about with cannons or RBT that do d6 or d3 wounds?
If you happen to get lucky and hit it on the side and go threw several models and end up wounding 2 of them, if you rolled 2s on both your d3 rolls would you kill one and put 1 wound on another or just two wounds on each... In general it would be kill one and move the next wound over, but I know the rules are a bit different when you are looking at multiple wound hits. Since a d3 wounds bolt will only kill one normal 1W model no matter what you roll...

Walrusm3 · Post by **Walrusm3** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:15 pm

Uhh we are talking about ogre kingdom. Like I never knew they could regenerate

Frijoles negros · Post by **Frijoles negros** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:17 pm

Try using witch elves, massed poison should do well. Mengil's Manflayers would work also, great weapons and good shooting combined with poison.

Maul scion of monolith · Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:18 pm

that's right.. Don't forget to give your spearmen shield.. Again, hand weapon + shield is a 4+.. Not 5+..

In addition, try to get them in a rank of 4 model/unit.. so, 16 spearmen gives 3 rank bonus.. rather than putting them in 5 model of 15 people.. Where they could only have 2 rank bonus..

Walrusm3 · Post by **Walrusm3** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:24 pm

Right so now I know that ogre kingdom now regenerates... That just makes everything worse. Also the problem with my spearelves I use them in expendeable ways such as I use them as distarctions so the ogres feast upon them while my elites get around to rear or flank them like is it nessecary to change my tatic.

Erloas · Post by **Erloas** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:42 pm

Hmm... I didn't know ogres could regenerate at all... at least not in general, I wouldn't be suprised if they had a special item or two that does it though...

Hydra could be nice for regenerating ogres... kind of hard to hit with the str 3 fire breath weapon, but if you do that removes regen. Its the only fire attack that we have that I know of. Plus terror and s5 is good the rest of the time too.

Maul scion of monolith · Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:58 pm

Well.. it is purely up to you.. Anything that suits you best.. I think what you are doing is great.. Basically, all you need to do is make them loose combat resolution/panic and flee.. Thus, you don't have to kill everyone of them in the combat.. You just need to chase them.. (Ogre Ld:7, M:6) they roll 2 dice to flee..

march within 6" of the ogres so they wont get impact hits.

You could also have the spearmen do this.. to avoid impact hits.. then, after you magic, shoot, etc.. then expect them to charge your unit.. (pass your ld test).. then, their ass is grass..

well.. this is what I think anyway..

Bring Harpies always.. you want to kill their butcher/slaughter master (magic user).. I hate their magic.. "bloodgruel" roll a D6.. roll a 1 get a S6 hit.. but, 2-6 regains a wound.. Oh do you have army builder? You should go download it.. go to search engine and type: "army builder" it has ogre's stats..

Oh.. I think GW is going to release Ogre's cavalry (rhino).. Imagine a bigger creature than Cold One? I think our ass is grass..

Lethalis · Post by **Lethalis** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:10 pm

Thé key to winning with Ogres is not only getting the charge off (which happens often) but getting the Bull Charge off (which happens not so often). A cheap unit of 16 spears can easily hold off any unit of 3 Ogres, and with a Ld9 noble nearby they can hold off 4 Ironguts too, statistically. Also, they're low on armour meaning rxb's will do wonders. They cannotdistribute wounds, but their champion is considered a character and therefore needs to be targeted seperately in combat.

Also, Ogres cannot regenerate, although they might have one magic item that makes them. Still only one though.

Terrof darkshroud · Post by **Terrof darkshroud** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:22 pm

If im not mistaken the trollguts spell can give an ogre unit regeneration

Pmpn8ez · Post by **Pmpn8ez** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:04 pm

It can. You need to stop gut magic outright, since those spells just make his nasty units even meaner. After that, it's just a matter of getting the charge with a fast unit to the flank and an infantry unit to the front. Of course, it would also help to know that you can't distribute wounds throughout the unit; as people have told you, full models must be removed before a second model is assigned excess wounds.

Maaksel · Post by **Maaksel** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:47 am

Umm, someone mentioned 16 spears can hold off a unit of 4 bulls?

thats 4 auto hits, and 17 hitting on 4's (roughly 9 hits), thats
13 hits wounding on 3's (round up to 7 wounds) saving at 5+, thats 5 wounds (rounded).

2 attacks back (1 hit, 5+ to wound)...

Spears +3 for ranks +1 for possible wound +1 for standard.

thats +5 with luck on the wound...

Ogres are already +5 and now outweigh (US 12 now) +1...

They cause fear - causing auto break - so no 16 spears can't take a charge from 4 bulls =/

But its also like 60 points cheaper

Mirz do ordas · Post by **Mirz do ordas** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:35 am

Anything that can do a lot of damage on a smaal base size is an efficient ogre killer, this means:

hydra, chariot, dragon, manticore (only 2 ogres start BtB, 1 dies, few return attacks left).

against T4, a CoB is really worth it as well.

Malekith, the witch king · Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:27 pm

Ogres die to multiple shot ranged attacks such as skinks or maybe even repeater crossbows, you can always just KB them anyway.

Also you find ogres very rarely have full command, and ranks so you can easily over run them in combat resulotion.

Devide and Conquer!

Dranthar · Post by **Dranthar** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:02 pm

IMO, Ogres aren't that tough to deal with. I've only played one 1000pt game against them, and from that, it was evident to me that they are much like the Druchii in that they are a tricky army to use well.

Ogre Gut magic is good, but certainly a long way from overpowering. From memory, half of the spells are RiP that assist their own units, and are not too tough to dispel later (7+ after they've been cast). Of the other three, I believe one forces a panic check at -1 (generally only a major problem vs. Harpies), and the other two are direct damage (one of them ignores armour I think). Against one Ogre Butcher and with me using just a Seal of Grond (for 3 dispel dice), I was able to comfortably avoid the worst of the ogre magic.

Ogres are also very easy to out-maneuver. As fast as they can be, their units are pretty large and unwieldy, so I had very little trouble denying march moves and threatening flanks with the Dark Riders.

Ogres also really suffer from shooting. With very little armour and only Ld7, it isn't too difficult to panic a unit with some concentrated fire, which in turn, can cause a few other units to panic, etc etc.

Finally, I found that terror is very handy. I took a War Hyda in my army, which I handily used to burninate some gnoblars (who legged it for the rest of the game), fight off a pack of yhetees, and scare the crap out of the lead belchers before swinging back around to play chasey with the Butcher (which it eventually got around to eating).
...Okay, so maybe all that was mainly thanks to the beefcake-killyness of a war hydra, but terror is still good. It causes fear in ogres, which is good when they only have Ld7

Some things to watch out for -
Yhetees - They can move through any terrain without penalty IIRC. It certainly surprised my war hydra when they hit him in the flank (good thing Mr Hydra is so killy...see above

)

Gut Magic - just make sure you know what the spells do, and the fact that they get access to all of them and can cast even when they have a RiP spell going.

Gnoblars...Nah, just kidding :roll:

. Hit them in the flank with Dark Riders and they'll run screaming from the board...or burn them with a war hydra.

Make sure you know what trappers do though, because I don't and I'd like to find out why OK players keep taking them.

Lead Belchers - They're mainly nasty against Light Cav. and Skirmishers, but otherwise don't be too afraid of their cannons, with a Rank and file unit, they becoms easy VPs.

The BULL CHARGE - I got lucky in my game, but if you know your are going to get charged next turn, make sure you're within 6" so they don't get the extra impact hits. 16-20 Spearmen are going to have some trouble taking down 4 Bulls even without their Impact hits, but most players seem to prefer taking units of 3 (simply because 4 bulls takes up masses of space), which a unit of spearmen should be much more comfortable dealing with.

Scrap Launcha - I never faced one, but apparently they have a tendency to go running after enemy units in charge range. Gee, I wonder how you could deal with that???

EDIT: Malekieth, you cannot KB an ogre, since they are not man-sized. You can still KB a Gnoblar however, although why you would want to do that is beyond me....

Lexy · Post by **Lexy** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:03 pm

They have low leadership ( compared to elves ) and one ogre killed in magic or shooting, will cause a panic test.

Try with shooting and magit to lower their numbers per unit ( 2 units of 2 bulls is a lot less scary then one bull and a unit of 3 bulls )

Use a lot of magic ( they can have MR, but not all units ) and make sure he can't do any magic.
His butchers are 200 pts a piece, that makes it a lot for a level 2 sorcerer.

Realise what a manticore in the side can do: at least 4 S5 attacks ad with a highborn on it, you should kill enough to not be attacked back and win combat ( they probably run.)

Drizz't · Post by **Drizz't** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:38 pm

run basic bait and trap tactics on Ogres. Shades and DR's work well for this, set them up, to be counterchargerd, just make sure your opponent doesnt redirect into something valuable. As long as you can take away the charge from them, their mostly toast. Also, combat res is effective against them. they have great difficulties dealing with ranked units.

Therefore i suggest running a basic game plan tactic. Bait with shades and DR, obviously shoot at the lumbering buffoons. RXB also is great, those 6 shots will make him think twice before entering its LOS for any prolonged period of time. There are 2 warnings i can give you. The hunters and gut magic. Gut magic is relatively akin to Undeadmagic. where its basically low casting cost. Because of this i suggest you keep your DS till last. just keep throwing dispel dice at it. Hunters, are great lone mage killers, NEVER leave a lone sorceress away from a unit those cats will catch her and eat her, and then your down a sorceress. keep her in a unit or close by one, careful positioning, you have to be anal about it sometimes.