+++ The 7th Ed Thread +++

Scionuk · Post by **Scionuk** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:13 pm

Regarding the 5 wide ranks ive just had a look at the sneak peak for skull pass on the official GW website; now the dwarves are ranked in 4's but the goblins plus the spider riders are ranked in 5's. This could show the 5 ranks thing is coming in or it could be that all goblin units are so large that they generally have at least a 5 rank anyway.

Post by **Dyvim tvar** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:38 pm

Artemis Entreri wrote:Im really not looking forward to the changes at all.

I wouldn't stress too much. You shouldn't assume all these rumors are true. At least half the change rumors out there are based on wishes/hopes/speculations that got repeated so much on various discussion boards that people started assuming they would come to pass.

Some of the rumors may come to pass, but don't assume that they all will.

Oompaloompa · Post by **Oompaloompa** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:56 pm

on the subject of 5 wide instead of 4 wide....

I actually heard that the 5 wide rule was designed only for O&Gs because they were "unorganized". Meaning only O&Gs would need 5 wide while everyone else stays at 4.

But if its 5 wide for everyone im actually kindu happy with that. Means our witches and exes will get more attacks , which is what we want, and it makes other armies more unwieldy. seeings how i always deploy my units with a frontage of 6 im all smiles

peace

One-eye · Post by **One-eye** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:50 am

The skirmishers fearing ranked units is ridiculous to be honest. It would severely cripple WE and BoC! Also if they are going to make it 5 wide frontage they should make movement trays to that size. Apart from that I am looking forward to them toning down the magic phase a little. cheers, One-Eye

Oompaloompa · Post by **Oompaloompa** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:08 am

actually one eye....

skirmishers fearing ranked units wouldn't do a thing to woodelves.... both there skirmishing fighting units are immune to psych. BoC however.... thats a different story.

peace

Geist · Post by **Geist** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:47 am

Movement trays are already done 5 wide. Unless your using 25mm bases then its 4 wide. I really dont follow that grich.

Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:28 am

one thing I REALLY want to see changed is the guess range weapons. So that they work like in 40k where you just put it down. Since I am practically blind on one eye (well it works but my brain refuses to use it) so i have almost no depth perception

Zardock · Post by **Zardock** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:24 am

about the whole making magic more supportive thing whats up with that arent some lores supposed to be aggressive eg Dark Magic
im not to bothered about the 5 rank thing but the fast cav thing will mess my army up good

Silashand · Post by **Silashand** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:13 am

Realistically, I'm not looking forward to 7th as much as I was based on these rumours. About the only positive ones are the magic changes. Everything else just seems ridiculous. Change for the sake of change is wrong IMO, but if we get stuck with them then what can we do? I guess we could keep playing 6th if we want, but eventually that option would dry up I'm sure.

Ah well, wuch GW wasn't such a bunch of *****s with regard to their secrecy fetish.

Cheers, Gary

Kiwi · Post by **Kiwi** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:02 am

Linda Lobsta Defenda wrote:one thing I REALLY want to see changed is the guess range weapons. So that they work like in 40k where you just put it down. Since I am practically blind on one eye (well it works but my brain refuses to use it) so i have almost no depth perception

I share the same problem, but I think the rules with regards to that are fine. I just don't use armies that need me to use my depth perception. Really when you think about it, it's ALL about guessing distance, even moving ( to stay out of charge, shooting and magic range ) and charging, really to make it fair on people like us it would be legal to measure everything before doing it, but then that would make the game really long, and we'll to be honest we are a very very small minority.

Eternis · Post by **Eternis** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:56 pm

I have heard a rumour that druchii are going to at least start being looked at for rerelease under the 7th ed rules around nov/dec. Heard from someone who heard from someone on the gcn

Another rumour is that NAGASH is coming back!!

Scionuk · Post by **Scionuk** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:06 pm

Well have heard that it will be O&G, then another army, cant remember which (didnt care

) then DE book. Regarding Nagash arent we due a campaign with him coming back sometime soon?

The liger · Post by **The liger** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:10 pm

Another rumour is that NAGASH is coming back!!

I believe that rumour has been floating around for a while now, and a lot of people expect that sometime a summer campaign will revolve around him. Naturally, I'm sure this doesn't mean his rules will be released (that's just like making an Aenarion SC or Morgoth in LotR) but it would be cool to see a summer campaign based around him and the TK and VCs, with some cool new lists and lots of rules for undead!

About guess ranges, I think it's a bit of a problem, but for what it would be like to stop guessing altogether, just look at LotR, where premeasuring is allowed. However, if you just need it for guess weapons, I think that would actually be better, and more fair generally.

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:56 pm

Eternis wrote:I have heard a rumour that druchii are going to at least start being looked at for rerelease under the 7th ed rules around nov/dec. Heard from someone who heard from someone on the gcn

Another rumour is that NAGASH is coming back!!

there are always rumours about nagash comming back. before the soc campaign people where talking about how it would have nagash in it.. i wouldnt put much weight into it

Phazael · Post by **Phazael** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:36 pm

Another bunch of poorly thought out changes that do not take all armies into account, really. Having seen the playtesting, I can confidently say that a couple changes are being looked at.

Fast Cav- Someone at GW really hates MSU and really loves Brets. Thats basically how this change was explained to me. They don't want small manueverable guys negating ranks and winning combat by, you know, actually KILLING someone. They want fat blocks of infantry bumping uglies and someone flubbing a leadership test to decide everything. This change is hotly contested, from what I understand, and is mainly targetted at Wood Elven fast cav.

Ranks going to 5- This one is a definite and across the board requirement. What they SHOULD do is require Unit Strength 5 to form a rank. As it is, they really screwed Ogre armies and its not like any Ogre armies were winning in the first place. All this is going to do is magnify the already ludicrous power of the Bretonian Lance formation, imo.

Magic Changes- The days of parking your mage in the middle of woods and casting Conflag are over, thankfully. The system needed an overhaul, but they really need to address scroll caddies at the same time. The dice casting limit and the revised lores are deffinite.

Halberds- Supposedly going to be armor piercing, but apparently this is going to be dropped. Hell if I will ever use Blackguard again, if they make me 5 wide them without making the halberd somewhat better.

Archery in Ranks- Didn't see that one in use, but I strongly doubt anything that does not involve large blocks of men slapping each other silly until one runs making the new ruleset. Even if it did, it would only apply to bows anyhow, not Xbows.

Skirmishers- Its not just the skinks that they hate, its flying units supporting frontal charges with their additional numbers that was the catalyst behind this. The Bretonian Pegasi guys will be excepted, of course, or at least they were in the test game I witnessed.

Heavy Cav Minimum charge distance- This one will, unfortunately, probably never make the final cut. Its a guarenteed fuel for arguments and damn hard to adjudicate, especially if there is any wheeling involved in the charge move. If it does go in, the testers I watched pretty much stated that artificial charge ability spells and wargear effects will not give you the full charge bonus. So basically, this means you can add Unseen Lurker on CoK and Dance Macabre on undead knights to the list of things to get de-balled in 7th. No word on how things like Banner of Murder will be affected. There was some mumbling that chariots and similar units would have to maintain distances to generate impact hits as well. Odds are, this one won't make it, though, as it affects the pet armies too heavily.

Overall?
I think once 7th comes out, we're basically done as a viable list until they manage to churn out a revised army book. Almost all of the nerfs in 7th are targetted at MSU/Skirmish armies and DE simply cannot play the toe to toe game, as our troops are too expensive. Its pretty clear that they want horde armies to win (after all, how expensive is a 2k Ork force when compared to a 2k Bret force, in terms of money?) and MSU stomped out. Honestly, skinks aside, I don't see any of these nerfs really affecting any of the top rung armies.

Prague pride · Post by **Prague pride** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:00 am

My one request for 7th ed DE is that RXB's be move AND fire.

Given that they're lower strength and shorter range then every other missile unti out there, with the "bonus" of shooting twice at -1 to hit (woo...enter sarcasm), the very least they could do is make them move and fire. It makes perfect sense too, cnosidering they reload by slamming a new clip home. I imagine them as the medievel equivelent of an automatic rifle.

Right now, the low str, low tough of elves...I wish it would be unnerfed but I can live with that, it makes sense.

But making it so I can't use any RXB's till the 3rd round against most of my opponents (1-2 rounds to get into position and then i can fire.... sigh). That one always bugs me.

I also like the idea of elves being able to shoot in 2 ranks. That would be nifty.

Soulreaper · Post by **Soulreaper** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:07 am

prague_pride wrote:My one request for 7th ed DE is that RXB's be move AND fire.

As far as I know they ARE move and fire... I've never heard anyone say otherwise... well until now that is.
I've always played them as move and fire.. so has everyone i have ever played against. so if they are not move and fire someone better show me where it says they arent

Lord fear · Post by **Lord fear** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:10 am

The problem with the current edition of elves is that, whatever the Dark Elves have, the High Elves must have also, which can lead to some very similar units on both sides. There must be a clear difference between the two races. Other than that, the rules are fine how they are.

Lamehk the slavemaster · Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:30 am

prague_pride wrote:My one request for 7th ed DE is that RXB's be move AND fire.

prague_pride wrote:I also like the idea of elves being able to shoot in 2 ranks. That would be nifty.

1: they can. repeaters are not ordinary crossobws. they are much lighter. either you have you made a rather foolish assumption or you have been made a fool of.

2. all the time? no. wood elves? maybe. but darkelves have no paticular efficency in shooting while wood elves do. dark elves do not spend their entrie lives in an obsession with the bow. wood elves do. anyway: at times you CAN shoot from both ranks: firing at a large target, firing from a slope so that the front rank isnoticably lower and when on higher ground.

3. this has been turned into a sort of rules guestion reply so ill just put this: i suggest that assassins should be given an option as an RXB an should also be given the option of frenzy . ok now i am done

Sha'a'alaar · Post by **Sha'a'alaar** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:45 am

On a side note, I know the guys who have submitted a Nagash army book/list to GW, so that may be happening in some form or other. Though what form that will be (book, WD article/list or something for a summer campaign) is anybody's guess.

cheers
Sha'a'alaar

Handmaiden · Post by **Handmaiden** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:40 am

I think its a mistake to make the Dark art JUST a supportive lore as opposed to agressive. - UNLESS its about supporting units in close combat more. It should be a mixture.

atm most people dont take much magic in 2K games - as the only use scroll caddies, which is a shame imo.

They should make magic a much more attractive choice to dark elf players as right now who would take a high sorceress (our sorceresses are hugely expensive for their +1 to cast - but tell me what good is +1 to cast when your opponent can summon way more dispel dice/scrolls due to having much cheaper mages?) on a dark pegasus - when you can get a close combat highborn monster of a lord for only two thirds the points? which also complements the agressive Dark Elf style of play better...as obviously he can help in CC directly.

unless you are lucky to cast the most devastating Dark spells- simple logic states that theres a far greater chance of the Highborn surviving the battle (as hes in a unit) and at least him breaking even by killing his points worth.

as it is now (unless youre playing 3000 + pts games- few ppl i know do) The High Sorceress option becomes moribund - fluffwise this MAY be right (as High Sorceresses dont get off their butts for all but the most important battles i'd imagine , yet the same can be said of the highborn cant it?)

Its just a shame to me as I like High Sorceresses loads.

Fellblade · Post by **Fellblade** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:58 pm

Looking at the Boxed set Dwarf Army on the GW Sneak Peeks: notice the set of 3 stones, chained together? In front of the Thunderers? Sort of looks like the stakes for Brettonnian archers, doesn't it.

I wonder if most armies' missle troops will be able to take defensive stakes as a unit upgrade.

Prague pride · Post by **Prague pride** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:20 pm

Some things i'd like to see:

1. Revival of the city guard for standard armies. I like having mixed units that can stand and shoot AND fight in two ranks.

2. They could do something neat with Dark Riders, or RXB's in general by allowing them to shoot while charging. They make their shots first as they move into range, and the enemy has to test to break. Dark riders might then just overrun a smaller unit.

3. Offer core troops that can be equipped with halbreds/GW or something that gives us a higher strength. HAving the majority of our units do s3 is really tough to overcome.

4. I think we should have MORE differences between HE and DE. None of this "because one elf army has it, they all do."

5. Slave units. 2 pts a model, no equipment (cept for hand weapons). But we drug them up so they're frenzied

6. More drugs/poison options. It'd be awesome if for +2 pts corsairs could have poisoned weapons or something like that.

7. Harpy tweek. In the olden days, they were great because they were str 4, t4, 2w. Now they just suck. If they were cheaper or better.

8. Better magic items: Our special magic items list is pretty skimpy for an elf army, let alone about half of which are useless (Armor of living death anyone?) I think all the elf armies should have tons more magic items then any other, at the very least a couple swords bound with spells or something.

(A sword that comes bound with Word Of Pain would be awesome!)

Keledron · Post by **Keledron** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:30 pm

Fellblade - the stones are more likely to be objective markers for the scenarios.

Waerik · Post by **Waerik** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:41 pm

I would like the armour of darknes to be improved to 1+ rather than 2+.
I would like to do this in order to make it a viable choice for a noble or a highbourn... With HA SDC and the enchanted shield, you get the same close combat save, but a better shooting save, costing the same for a highborn, but less magic item points, the later combination also gives you the ability to use a great weapon in close combat...

And yes all 1+ save armours out there costs 30 points, not 25, I do however belive that the lower cost is balanced out by the shield that the armour includes, since it does not allow you to use a two handed weapon...