Cold One unit size

Sonofmorrigan · Post by **Sonofmorrigan** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:17 pm

I have 15 of these delightful creatures ready for their riders. I'm planning on fielding 3 units of 5 with a full command in each. However when talking to my friend he's pretty adamant that heavy cavalry is most effective in lines. So that would be one unit of 15 in 3 lines. My feeling is that it would be better to have 3 separate units scattered across the field which would cause my opponent to make some tough decisions. Also I wouldn't have to slice off their tales to make them fit into lines :twisted:

Some opinions would be good before I decide to make 3 musicians and standard bearers instead of just one.

Post by **Dalamar** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:43 pm

Single rank, always. be it 5,6 or 7 models (I find 6 the best, usually 5 + master)

Back ranks in heavy cavalry units are too expensive for the added bonus of +1 CR.

Thanatoz · Post by **Thanatoz** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:49 pm

I would never field more than 10 in a single squad. All you get from a unit of 15 is a very expensive 2 points CR bonus, and only 1 after one failed save, it vanishes. Of course, outnumbering with fear causing creatures is nice, but as they have US 2, 10 knights will be more than enough for this purpose. In fact, I'd rather split them in 2 squads of 7 then (for maximizing attacks).

There's something to say for all approaches, so how many special slots are you willing to sacrifice? Are you planning on using BG, Shades, Execs, WE, CoCs? If not, use 3 squads of five by all means, for maximum annoyance level.

Sonofmorrigan · Post by **Sonofmorrigan** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:07 pm

Thanatoz wrote:There's something to say for all approaches, so how many special slots are you willing to sacrifice? Are you planning on using BG, Shades, Execs, WE, CoCs? If not, use 3 squads of five by all means, for maximum annoyance level.

I will be using 1 unit of 10 Black Guards. With the 3 separate units of CoK's my intention would be to force my opponent to force him to make a tough decision and hopefully focus his heavier units in one direction. Alternatively 3 units of CoK's spread out across the field should cause him to split his attention focusing on the immediate threat allowing my Hydra and BG's to march relatively unhindered towards his heavier units whilst my Dark Riders cause a havok with his cannon crew.

Zakath the slaughterer · Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:13 pm

10-man unit of infantry and 15 of heavy cavalry? Not too optimized if you ask me

I agree with Dalamar, I use 5 in my smaller games, 6 or 5+Master if I have the points. 7 is becoming quite unwieldy and expensive but I can see that working. I'm just a MSU purist

Notts · Post by **Notts** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:20 pm

do you use full command when linked with a master?

Willowdark · Post by **Willowdark** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:37 pm

absolutly!

+1 s6 attack with Hatred from champ, +1 combat rez from standard, musician in case of tie. (nothing worse than tying combat and loosing because they have a muso and you don't).

While your at it, shell out the 25 points for the warbanner for a stactic +2. even better, for 10 points more take the SoS for as much as a +4 combat rez.

all of which are excellent ways to rack up CR bonuses and are infinately more efficient than adding ranks.

Having the master is great for kill bonuses, but forgoing the command group would just be a failure to support you master. its all about setting him up for success.

Zakath the slaughterer · Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:07 pm

willowdark, they can't have my banner (Standard of Slaughter) because the Black Guard is the only unit with 50pts. magic banner allowance

Notts · Post by **Notts** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:57 pm

willowdark, The reason I ask is that for Empire you never take full command as it risks the 100 points for banner.
I suppose the difference is that CoK can actually kill stuff, so it is worth the possible risk.

Maeglin · Post by **Maeglin** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:00 pm

Just to back up another another Asrai player, COK can take up to 50pt magic banner. A fact for which i'm very grateful for against high elves since i can equip mine with the Banner of Hag Graef.

Desert icon · Post by **Desert icon** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:08 pm

Zakath the Slaughterer wrote:willowdark, they can't have my banner (Standard of Slaughter) because the Black Guard is the only unit with 50pts. magic banner allowance

Wrong! Both Black Guards and Cold One Knights have a 50-point magic banner allowance. So you CAN give the Standard of Slaughter to the Cold One Knights.

Take them in 5's! Much easier to move around and maneuver, and they end up being cheap!

Zakath the slaughterer · Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:20 pm

Wrong!

Eek, don't hit me! I checked my AB when I wrote that and mistook the Champion's magic item allowance for the banner limit - I stand corrected. I just logged on to fix it anyhow

I suppose the difference is that CoK can actually kill stuff, so it is worth the possible risk.

They definitely can, I'm still reluctant to give them banners if there's no Master in to ensure the flow of ACR

Willowdark · Post by **Willowdark** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:23 pm

notts wrote:willowdark, The reason I ask is that for Empire you never take full command as it risks the 100 points for banner.
I suppose the difference is that CoK can actually kill stuff, so it is worth the possible risk.

That's the risk you take with any banner, the point is that you should be relying on your knights to win combat and break the enemy, its what they're there for. If you expect them to die, than no, don't take the banner. Fast Cav, missile troops, and small disposable infantry are all examples of units who would be expected (or in some cases, intended) to die. But you want your knights to stay around for the whole game, and you want to know that they're going to win decisively whenever they charge, that's what the banner is there for. It's not much, but it helps.

And both the WB and the SoS give bonuses for CR but either way its still the 100 VP risk for any banner, so its really worth it. If you are already using the SoS, than the WB is still a great investment.

Maeglin · Post by **Maeglin** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:54 pm

Just to add something new and try to summarise up others points;
-units of 5-6
-if you've got a hero in the unit go for full command
-if you want a disposable(ish) unit just a musician
-if you want a plain supporting shock cavalry unit just go for the musician and standard bearer. Sometimes champions are a hindarence

Sonofmorrigan · Post by **Sonofmorrigan** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:41 am

Zakath the Slaughterer wrote:10-man unit of infantry and 15 of heavy cavalry? Not too optimized if you ask me

No, despite all evidence to the contrary I am not insane.

I was answering the above question which asked if I used BG, Exec, WE's etc. I also have 20 Corsairs and 10 RxB's as well as the 10 BG.

Lord ruerl of harganeth · Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:07 am

I have 5 led my Maulus Darkblade in one of my lists (and only then as an extras 500pts) who punch in with my chariot.

The other list has 10 C1K led by a drealord with the ring of Darkness

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:59 am

Bigger units are worth considering only for the autobreak due to fear when I would just run 10 with a muso and maybe a standard. I wouldn't run more than 10 in a unit, and usually try for 6.

Marauder mitch2 · Post by **Marauder mitch2** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:50 am

I always run 5 naked. With the Cauldron they are amazing. For 135pts you have a unit that can fight and can be flee bait if you need it and fail stupidity and i never worry about stupidty.

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:16 am

5-7 is good. I usually add in the extra one or 2 guys if I am using a character in there or if there is no plan for a character, 5 strong is fine.

If I was considering trying for autobreak (worthless vs the daemons, slaaneshi mortals, undead and runed up dwarves I face), I would rather go for 2 small units than one big 'un.

Post by **Dalamar** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:19 am

You can't flee if you fail stupidity. Units that fail stupidity become immune to psychology until their next stupidity test.