Khainite Units in a non-Khainite Army

Karicfirewind · Post by **Karicfirewind** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:46 am

Like a Countdown Conundrum, but with more murder and screaming.

Er, anyway, I'm one of those people that builds an army based around what is cool, rather than what works on the battlefield. As such, my core army is based on two units of Warriors, two units of Crossbows a unit of Cold One Knights (which will eventually have a BSB in it at 2k) and a vanguard of Corsairs with handbows. The general is currently a Sorceress at 1k, but will eventually be a Dreadlord, probably riding a Cold One Chariot (I will BUY a dragon, but I doubt I'll use it much).

The problem here is that I really, really like the Executioners models, they're among my favourites out of the whole Warhammer range. I also really like their fluff, and especially Tullaris because his level of badassery is Over 9,000.
But I don't really like Witch Elves, and I hate the damn Cauldron (a mix of the fact that EVERYONE seems to use one, and the fact that the model looks a bit stupid. Also it seems completely immobile, yet somehow manages to travel all over the world (a problem I also have with the new Dwarf warmachines, but I digress...)). It's not that I don't LIKE the Khainites, just that I see no real place for them in my army.

This got me thinking... presumably the Temple of Khaine doesn't send armies of its own out all the time, it wouldn't have the manpower, surely? And most of it would be uncontrollable whirlwinds of destruction (which is fine, up to a point, but...).

By my understanding, the Temple almost operate as a separate entity. They follow Morathi, not Malekith (although by following one, they follow the other by implication) and commit bloody murder and violence because they like it, and they can. Whereas the other Dark Elves kill for power, or profit. I see the Cult of Khaine as a slavering hound, point it at the enemy and let it loose. Even the Executioners, who're far less frenzied, kill as an art form rather than as a necessity.

So the Temple needs blood, and Dreadlords need skilled warriors, assassins, or insane, bloodthirsty women with pointy things. Is that how it works, in the fluff? "You loan me a unit of Executioners, and you can have a portion of the slaves I bring back to murder and bathe in"?

I just have trouble imagining a unit of Executioners in my army. Assassins could be (/usually are) spies, or have their own agenda which just so happens to coincide with the Dreadlords' at the time. Not employed by him, but in the army by chance/because it suits him. Witch Elves could be 'loaned out' in exchange for slaves to sacrifice.

But Executioners?

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:24 am

My army is linked to Khaine only in roleplay really. My dreadlord performed a great service for the temple once and now has the gratitude of the temple in the form of a pair of manticores and a temple contingent (I don't always field any of the above) to 'keep him on the holy track'.... You don't need to field a themed Khainite army to justify khainite units IMO.

Izirath · Post by **Izirath** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:43 am

Sulla speaks the truth. But not everyone uses a cauldron! I for one doesn't.

Phierlihy · Post by **Phierlihy** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:57 pm

Every player in Warhammer has the luxury of building his army however he wants. Your discussion is about story line and GWs background but since it's all totally meaningless anyway, you can design your army however you see fit. If you think Executioners don't fit, they don't. If you hate Witch Elves, that's fine too. Storyline fluff has absolutely no impact on the game and you should feel free to change it in whatever way gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside.

Ukko · Post by **Ukko** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:19 pm

I had really good success with an army with 14 executioners with an assassin, no cauldron. They're never going to be as strong as black guard, but they're not awful either - they MOW through units if they get the charge in! The big problem is stopping them getting shot or run through by pimped out cavalry units. In terms of play though, them and my shades are my favourite unit I've ever played with - my execs have wiped out units of chaos knights, kroxigor, ironguts, etc. It's damn satisfying to charge a unit of khorne knights and kill every single damn one before they can strike back!

The assassin's absolutely essential though - they need him and his ASF to be able to take a charge from anything.

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:24 am

Well my army theme is a convent force in lustra looting temples. My little witch contingent has been sent by Moranthi to ensure that she gets a share of any goodies found.

Doriili bariiliia · Post by **Doriili bariiliia** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:24 pm

As a Player that likes to keep his army within the lines of Fluff. I have placed Khainite units in my army because of the reconized deication that my Dreadlord's Family has made to Druchii causes and vast donations to the temple of Khaine. Further He has ask that a Temple of Khaine be founded at the Family's Old World Raiding outpost.

Chain · Post by **Chain** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:55 pm

Still haven't picked a permanent army setup, I keep going with what I want from game to game.
Reading the fluff of the Special Characters Tullaris is by far the most interesting to me, but sadly his usefulness is the least appealing one :/

but overall yeah everything is for you to decide, if it's within the rules why not.

Side note, would it be possible to place Lokhir in a regiment of Blackguards?
I know his optimal with the corsair spc rule, but just wondering.

Post by **Dalamar** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:37 pm

Yes it would be possible. He's in no way restricted in the choice of units he joins.

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:43 pm

Well my Lustra themed Convent army now has a CoB. Rather than being a witch cauldron, its the Steggie engine of the gods with most of the ratty skink stuff removved and a sorceress sacrificing on the platform. I have witches in the army at the moment, but I might invent some maiden guard fluff to allow for the Sorceresses to have the withc-like warriors as well. (maybe just drugged or spelled witches)

Smiler6310 · Post by **Smiler6310** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:32 pm

Karicfirewind-From what I've read each city has its own temple with its own small selection of troops. Why not have a unit of them and say they were sent by that citys temple to strengthen the army and similair to what Rabidnid said that they are also there to ensure the temples best interests come first!

I'm looking at fielding 14 executioners led by a death hag bsb carrying the SoHG with witchbrew - should make a mess of just about anything they come into contact with :twisted:

I love the executioner models I think they kinda have that samurai look to them

Lasthobbit · Post by **Lasthobbit** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:20 pm

Why the Executioners is present in a non-Khainite army? They are here to show the weaken ones HOW to kill )
Seriously - battle is a great arena of blood and destruction and shouts of the victims is a song in the name of Khaine. Where you can show your love to kill? In the temple - not interesting: victim is not moving and have not any kind of weapon, on the battlefield you can kill a fully equipped and well-trained creature - it is much more proud and it causes more pleasure to Lord of Murder.
So time to time Execs go out from their places to take part in the Khaine's bloody mess.

Kabal · Post by **Kabal** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:58 pm

there is also the option of just outright changing names.

i want to use a single unit of executioners in my primarilly warrior and cold one based list - as a personal guard for my psychopathic lord - so i call them house guard and use the rules for execs. just dropping khainite references... although we all know where they come from

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:21 pm

To address the fluff component of this discussion a little bit more: Obviously, there are a lot of vying factions in Druchii society. The Coven of sorceresses, the Temple of Khaine, the respective towers of the Black Guards, the Shade clans, all have their own individual priorities and goals. What keeps them in line is their own selfishness, and the utterly ruthless rule of the Witch King.

Selfishness: Obviously, a big motivation to join a force. Druchii prize wealth, reputation and bloodletting (not necessarily in that order, based on who we're talking about) and battle is the most straightforward way to achieve those things. With the Executioners specifically, you could easily have a Druchii lord who has done the Temple a favor in the past, either by eliminating one of their enemies or being particularly generous with donations of slaves and wealth, and in return the Temple loans him a regiment of Executioners as a return on the investment, not to mention a bit of the ol' Khaine worship via battlefield carnage.

I don't imagine the Temple requires a lot of incentive to send their troops abroad; they do, after all, worship the god of murder. However, the Temple is also a political entity, and political entities need to perform favors and return favors in order to stay in power.