Why are chariots extinct?

Columind · Post by **Columind** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:28 pm

I'm curious to why people pretty much don't use chariots anymore...is it because of the ST7+ creep of last years?
Or is it because of hatred and the danger that comes from having a chariot running around chasing weak cheap and sacrificial enemy units?

Post by **Dyvim tvar** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:47 pm

My reason? Because the models appear a bit ... um ... stupid ... on the table next to my awesome looking cold one knights.

I think they are great in game terms. With improvement in armor save, equipment, strength, and leadership, they are really a bargain at 100 points each.

The skaerkrow · Post by **The skaerkrow** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:54 pm

I run two chariots, and have done so for quite some time now.

GW has actually been making strides to reduce the number of Strength 7 units in the game, lately. While every army (barring Wood Elves) seems to have at least one thing that can break Chariots open, they don't tend to have more than one (the older armies notwithstanding).

The boost in effectiveness that our Chariots received with the 7th Edition book (+1 Charioteer Strength, +1 Armor Save, +1 Leadership, free RXBs) makes them an attractive and wholly legitimate competitor to Cold One Knights, in my opinion. Inflicting D6+1 Impact hits, two Strength 5 attacks and two Strength 4 attacks on the charge will make nearly anyone take notice, and against foes that don't have S7 attacks in their army, it usually proves to be one of our single most durable units (after the Dragon and the War Hydra).

Honestly, I think the biggest enemies to chariots right now are the popularity of Black Guard, the brilliant new models that Cold One Knights received and the lack of a Chariot model for Dark Elves (AFAIK, the 6th Edition kit has been pulled).

Comrade igor · Post by **Comrade igor** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:18 pm

I use two chariots in my standard list. They're great. I might be taking them to Devourer, if i don't take a COB list.

Rob the dark elf · Post by **Rob the dark elf** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:01 pm

I take chariots all the time. I particularly like using them in smaller games as they are quite cheap and can prove quite effective as a shock unit (especially when they cause 7 strength 5 impact hits). If I'm feeling saucy I will even mount a master on one for Unit strength 5.

Chain · Post by **Chain** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:01 pm

Eventually I'll try adding some 5'th ed cold ones infront of a 5'th ed Chaos Chariot to go as my chariot, not sure how it'll look though ^^'

Well One thing good about 6'th ed cold ones would be:
They look more like Cave lizards then any other cold ones made and they're supposed to be living in caves...

Post by **Kinslayer** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:11 pm

I have just converted my own plastic one from the high elves, and plan on running 2 or more in 2000-2250 point games. They are very effective, though I am a big fan of chariots rules aside anyway.

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:03 pm

I don't take them because I face VC (who chariots are usually a waste of time against) and WoC who can run my chariots around with their excellent fast cav and dogs while smashing me with their own awesome khorne chariots.

Maybe when someone stars playing an actual breakable infantry army vs me, I'll use them. The new rules and price are great though.

Comrade igor · Post by **Comrade igor** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:02 am

sulla wrote:I don't take them because I face VC (who chariots are usually a waste of time against) and WoC who can run my chariots around with their excellent fast cav and dogs while smashing me with their own awesome khorne chariots.

Shouldn't you be doing that to them instead? I mean they're the ones with frenzy n' all..

Silverheimdall · Post by **Silverheimdall** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:07 am

Chariots are support.
Used as support against the Undead, I have broken, entirely, through Undead units on the charge.

But its a Special Slot so sometimes they don't make my lists, but I really love chariots :[

Lakissov · Post by **Lakissov** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:10 am

Chariots are great when you run infantry, and need some manoeuvrable hitty units with long threat range to keep away all those enemy support units that can be really unpleasant for your infantry.

The way I view the DE army list now, if you don't go for either guerilla tactics (evade and shoot) or cauldron-backed elites (a list that uses special slots to generate a lot of ACR), then you need some SCR, and hence would run a few units of warriors. In such a list, two chariots would be an excellent use for your special slots.

Cathel · Post by **Cathel** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:01 am

I used one before the new book, but since then I haven't found the use for it. BG / shades being more interesting right now.

Post by **Layne** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:07 am

Not even as character mounts? No Special that way.

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:12 pm

Layne wrote:Not even as character mounts? No Special that way.

I still love the chariots as character mounts, seeing as it becomes US5 then it's brilliant to hang back and then smash into flanks... and the models ain't bad, they're just outdated. I might actually buy some of the new cold one knights (and maybe order some more cold one models) to get my chariots up to date, so to speak.

HUZZAH!

Crawd · Post by **Crawd** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:14 pm

They are still awesome, but you need to be careful that's all.

I usually run 2 chariots in my list because they provide awesome support to my armies.

Post by **Dalamar** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:14 pm

I love the chariots, they just don't have a job in my current army. I use them in pairs when I do.
So far I own two, but I plan another two for character mounts.

Cathel · Post by **Cathel** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:32 pm

Layne wrote:Not even as character mounts? No Special that way.

No, I am learning my way around the druchii atm after years of non playing.
My combat characters are either on foot in the BG or on the Manticore for fast enemies.

Dwarves being my most common enemy can bring to much S7 shooting.
Also playing in a campaign with 1000-1250 pts I just don't find the place.

Post by **Layne** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:45 pm

True, a chariot is a luxury in small battles, and a vanity in a plague of S7. In those small battles, if you have a chariot and he has a cannon, you won't have a chariot for long ey? Unless you can get some Harpies or DR in his face quicksmart.

Irtehdar · Post by **Irtehdar** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:30 pm

I dont believe the chariot is extinct. I believe that it may not be the current trend at the moment.
Some time ago I saw a thread started by Carlisson about Exec's. And in the following weeks I saw an increased concentration of lists including Exec's and more ''convert exec's'' threads.
Another reason why the Chariot might not be seen that much is because its a pretty straight forward unit. Everyone know how it works and how to best use it so It doesnt get discussed that much.
I generally tend to pick the chariot over the knights for no other reason than chariots are more reliable, serve my needs better, takes up less space and is wicked cool.

Marauder mitch2 · Post by **Marauder mitch2** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:22 pm

In the old book a lot of armies had chariots but i guess now most people want to use something different. I remember when i was using the old CoB with 4 chariots. I love the figures.

Chariots are still great and a bargain and they will come back into fashion as the metagame is always changing. I find my chariot is good against daemons as it is soo tough.

Post by **Dyvim tvar** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:29 pm

Marauder Mitch2 wrote:I find my chariot is good against daemons as it is soo tough.

Indeed. Due to their high toughness and armor save, combined with a good charge range and ability to deal damage, chariots are probably one of our best options for dealing with Tzeentch Flamers.

Venkh · Post by **Venkh** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:32 pm

I used to use chariots quite a lot, the reason i have ditched them is:

a) loss of 2-1
b) Cold one knights now really kick bottom
c) Shades and Black guard now provide fierce competition for those slots.
d) The Hydra can perform the close infantry support role much better than it used to.

I dont think they are going to make a comeback in this edition of the game, not in uber competetive horse punching lists anyway

Marauder mitch2 · Post by **Marauder mitch2** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:35 pm

My problem is trying to fit everything in but i want to get a chariot in. At the moment i am trying a khaine themed list led by a blood witcch.

Chariots are also great agianst the new lizards as they can't be dive bombed and are really tough. Also the loss of S7 is a bonus.

Ebonyphoenix · Post by **Ebonyphoenix** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:59 am

I'm going to agree with most everyone and state that the COC is not extinct, just often shuffled to the side in favor of our multitude of special choices. I used to often run a pair of them back when the hydra was inefficient as you could get both for less points in the 6th ed. rulebook. Now I get stuck running shades and CoK as they make my frequent opponents constantly second quess their gameplans.

Post by **Dalamar** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:34 am

Simple reason my chariots are currently shelved is that in Total Annihilation GT scenario they are worth 2 kill points instead of one. If they were 1 point cheaper I'd probably take them.