I am fighting wood elves on Thursday and could use some pointers. I expect to fight a pretty tough WE army played by an experienced player. GG, Dryads and atleast 1 Treeman, supported by some fast and/or mobile elite units.
The basics of the wood elves I know. I've read their book and the DRAICH. But could use some advanced advice regarding different combos of magic items I should look out for and other nasty tricks they might try to pull on me.
And is the Deepwood Sphere as powerfull as it seems? Simply move a mage into any forest containing dark elves and every model takes a str 5 hit or am I reading it wrong?
Wood Elves
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Sing_childer
- Slave on the Altar
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I've not personally fought Wood Elves and so I have little advice to impart. However, a good place to look in addition to druchii.net might be asrai.org. They have plenty of threads and articles on tactits against Druchii. I expect that'll give you a good idea of what kinds of things they'd try and do.
Specific links you might find interesting and/or useful are at:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15019 - LEAF, their equivalent to DRAICH. That link should lead you to the section on Dark Elves.
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16183 - and that's a discussion on Druchii vs Asrai tactics in one particular battle.
I hope that's of some use. And look how I managed to get through the post without a single "Ass-ray" joke.
Specific links you might find interesting and/or useful are at:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15019 - LEAF, their equivalent to DRAICH. That link should lead you to the section on Dark Elves.
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16183 - and that's a discussion on Druchii vs Asrai tactics in one particular battle.
I hope that's of some use. And look how I managed to get through the post without a single "Ass-ray" joke.
'No, Sir, "Carpe Diem" is not the fish of the day'
Units I would definitely take include:
- Corsairs (4+ save against shooting)
- At least 1 hydra (4+ save against feeble bows, followed by 4+ regen save), monsters and handlers means you can go into the woods to chase the pesky WEs out...
- Reaper Bolt throwers (very good against the high toughness Treeman)
Units I would avoid:
- Manticore (no save, toughness 5 = 5s to wound). Take a typical volley from 20 BS5 archers on a hill (20 shots, hitting on 3s = 13-14 hits. Wounding on 5s = 4-5 wounds = dead manticore and stranded dreadlord)
- Witch Elves - no armour save = lots of dead brides of khaine
- Black Guard and Executioners(unless you give them additional anti-missile properties (see comments below). They are expensive and their 5+ save means they die in droves when shot at.
Magic items and characters etc:
- The invincible dreadlord on dragon is particularly potent against WEs. Give the dreadlord full mundane armour (3+ save, 2+ save against shooting), pendant of khaine (3/4/5+ ward save) and armour of eternal servitude (regen on a 4+). The dragon has toughness 6 (they will wound on 6s only) and a 3+ armour save with 6 wounds. Neither will die easily. Spend the last 30 points either on 2x null talismen or lifetaker. Don't use it as an attacker initially, but rather as missile support - land the monster just next to a line of WEs and blast them with the breath attack and lifetaker - you should kill around 5-10 wood elves each turn. Then once the numbers are thinning, start to charge. The only units he can bring that could cause you problems are the Treeman (avoid it) and a forest dragon...
- Ring of darkness is an absolute must. Give it to a master or sorceress with any infantry unit and then beef up the ranks. Even a BS5 archer has their BS reduced to 3, which means goblin levels of accuracy XD
- Cauldron of Blood is an excellent choice too. Give your most important infantry unit a 5+ ward save.
You can combine some of these elements to make even an entirely infantry army viable - take corsairs (4+ save against missiles) give your blackguard the ring of darkness (they hit you on 5s at long range) and make your executioners have a 5+ ward save as well as their usual 5+ armour save. He can shoot at you as much as he wants, its not going to hurt (much).
Other comments:
Don't worry too much about the dryads. They are weaker than in previous editions and can now be taken on quite easily. They charged a unit of my RxBs on a hill once - I had an extra rank, standard and musician, outnumbered and was on a hill (standing and shooting killed a few before they got to me). Even before the combat started I had +4 SCR in my favour, from a unit of 10 RxBs! Needless to say, they ran away
For me, the Treeman is a big issue. Yes, you can shoot at it with Reapers, but they're at best unreliable (statistically untrue, game-wise true - you'll never see a bolt thrower player roll anything but a 1 or 2 on their first dice - and on the rare occasion that they do, it'll be followed by a 1 on their to wound dice...). Your hydra is actually weaker than it, so you want to avoid that combat (I actually did once win a hydra - treeman combat... The treeman ran away and my hydra rolled a 2 on its follow-up dice. We both agreed that this made sense, the hydra was left stunned by the fact this giant tree had pegged it). Aside from the dragon-nuke option or taking an executioner deathstar unit, not sure what advice I can give you here. Charge it with some CoKs or a CoC? Hmmm....
Don't know what to say about WE magic - it's always seemed pretty weak to me (the rules on tree-singing are much weaker than some players would like you to believe...), but I don't have much experience of it tbh.
- Corsairs (4+ save against shooting)
- At least 1 hydra (4+ save against feeble bows, followed by 4+ regen save), monsters and handlers means you can go into the woods to chase the pesky WEs out...
- Reaper Bolt throwers (very good against the high toughness Treeman)
Units I would avoid:
- Manticore (no save, toughness 5 = 5s to wound). Take a typical volley from 20 BS5 archers on a hill (20 shots, hitting on 3s = 13-14 hits. Wounding on 5s = 4-5 wounds = dead manticore and stranded dreadlord)
- Witch Elves - no armour save = lots of dead brides of khaine
- Black Guard and Executioners(unless you give them additional anti-missile properties (see comments below). They are expensive and their 5+ save means they die in droves when shot at.
Magic items and characters etc:
- The invincible dreadlord on dragon is particularly potent against WEs. Give the dreadlord full mundane armour (3+ save, 2+ save against shooting), pendant of khaine (3/4/5+ ward save) and armour of eternal servitude (regen on a 4+). The dragon has toughness 6 (they will wound on 6s only) and a 3+ armour save with 6 wounds. Neither will die easily. Spend the last 30 points either on 2x null talismen or lifetaker. Don't use it as an attacker initially, but rather as missile support - land the monster just next to a line of WEs and blast them with the breath attack and lifetaker - you should kill around 5-10 wood elves each turn. Then once the numbers are thinning, start to charge. The only units he can bring that could cause you problems are the Treeman (avoid it) and a forest dragon...
- Ring of darkness is an absolute must. Give it to a master or sorceress with any infantry unit and then beef up the ranks. Even a BS5 archer has their BS reduced to 3, which means goblin levels of accuracy XD
- Cauldron of Blood is an excellent choice too. Give your most important infantry unit a 5+ ward save.
You can combine some of these elements to make even an entirely infantry army viable - take corsairs (4+ save against missiles) give your blackguard the ring of darkness (they hit you on 5s at long range) and make your executioners have a 5+ ward save as well as their usual 5+ armour save. He can shoot at you as much as he wants, its not going to hurt (much).
Other comments:
Don't worry too much about the dryads. They are weaker than in previous editions and can now be taken on quite easily. They charged a unit of my RxBs on a hill once - I had an extra rank, standard and musician, outnumbered and was on a hill (standing and shooting killed a few before they got to me). Even before the combat started I had +4 SCR in my favour, from a unit of 10 RxBs! Needless to say, they ran away
For me, the Treeman is a big issue. Yes, you can shoot at it with Reapers, but they're at best unreliable (statistically untrue, game-wise true - you'll never see a bolt thrower player roll anything but a 1 or 2 on their first dice - and on the rare occasion that they do, it'll be followed by a 1 on their to wound dice...). Your hydra is actually weaker than it, so you want to avoid that combat (I actually did once win a hydra - treeman combat... The treeman ran away and my hydra rolled a 2 on its follow-up dice. We both agreed that this made sense, the hydra was left stunned by the fact this giant tree had pegged it). Aside from the dragon-nuke option or taking an executioner deathstar unit, not sure what advice I can give you here. Charge it with some CoKs or a CoC? Hmmm....
Don't know what to say about WE magic - it's always seemed pretty weak to me (the rules on tree-singing are much weaker than some players would like you to believe...), but I don't have much experience of it tbh.
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The warchief
- Cold One Knight
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I have 2 freinds both doing WE for a tournament next year, all the practice games I 'm playing at the moment are against tree huggers!
I beat a treeman last night by charging it with 5 COK with war banner. It was supposed to be backed up by a COC in the flank but it went stupid! So it is possible.... Magical attacks negate one of their saves and fire does double damage - a lvl 4 sorceress with lore of fire might work? And avoid getting too close to a treeman, their strangleroot shooting attack is nasty.
Watch out for magical shooting attacks from characters, I had one last week take out 2 x 5 COK in 2 turns from shooting that allows no armour save. Let me tell you, it stings a bit...
Don't put shades in a wood - you'll get a nasty surprise from the magic phase. (I learnt the hard way from that newbie mistake!)
I beat a treeman last night by charging it with 5 COK with war banner. It was supposed to be backed up by a COC in the flank but it went stupid! So it is possible.... Magical attacks negate one of their saves and fire does double damage - a lvl 4 sorceress with lore of fire might work? And avoid getting too close to a treeman, their strangleroot shooting attack is nasty.
Watch out for magical shooting attacks from characters, I had one last week take out 2 x 5 COK in 2 turns from shooting that allows no armour save. Let me tell you, it stings a bit...
Don't put shades in a wood - you'll get a nasty surprise from the magic phase. (I learnt the hard way from that newbie mistake!)
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Marauder mitch2
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Against woodies with magic heavy 1 lvl 2 with dark and the level 4 with metal as spirit of the forge is amazing against treemen. But i tend to use dark.
Woodies will suffer with a dragon lord and hydras especially as we have so many ways to take a treeman done. CoC's are a must and i raarely leave home without one.
Also keep out of the woods. WE's hate RBTs, lifetaker and our tough combat units. I always send knights against the GG and a hydra vs the dryads.
Woodies will suffer with a dragon lord and hydras especially as we have so many ways to take a treeman done. CoC's are a must and i raarely leave home without one.
Also keep out of the woods. WE's hate RBTs, lifetaker and our tough combat units. I always send knights against the GG and a hydra vs the dryads.
DJ Dizzy Posted: Jul 1 2009, 08:13 PM
Horror
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My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer
Horror
Group: Members
Posts: 15
Member No.: 1,989
Joined: 26-February 09
My daemon record is 2 wins and 12 losses... Yep, I suck at warhammer
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Willowdark
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Wood Elves shine through minimum sized units and mobility, which means they suffer from long range shooting and magic. RBT are excellent since they out distance WE longbows by so much and suffer almost no to-hit modifiers, save for long range. Focus them on fast harassers like Glade Riders, Warhawks, Eagles or Alter Kindred Characters. They will also be great against Wild Riders, which often tote the Warbanner for their only dose of SCR.
Wood elf characters are cheap, so they might be extremely minimal like a scroll caddie and single Alter Hero, or be maxed out the way my regular list is; one Wardancer Lord, one scroll caddy and 2 Alter Heroes. Either way, it can generally be pointless to target them since the troops themselves are so powerful. I play sort of recklessly with them and loose my General all the time, but I still manage major victories or better with them in spite of it.
The major exceptions are Alter Kindreds which can be devastating if allowed to live long. Focusing magic on them can be good since they can't join units and are vulnerable. I tend to burn a lot of magic defense turn one protecting mine. Overwhelming them with magic can begin with this since they tend to have an important assignment and people who bring them don't want to see them die too early, especially machine gun Lords or HoDA Heroes.
Focus RxBs on Dryads. To-hit modifiers rack up quickly, but volumn of shots might scare them, drawing them into combat. With a 4+ AS and Hatred, Dryads looking to clean up your shooters might find themselves overwhelmed if they charge your RxBs while they're still at full strength. Use DR to compound the shooting threat.
Use your Harpies to harass any Great Eagles or Waywatchers he might bring. Harpies might even do a few too many wounds to a T3 Alter Kindred Lord on the charge. Use Shades to attack GG.
All in all, WE are a great matchup for DE. As a DE player, I feel supremely confident that I could take out any WE list, while at the same time I'm confident that my regular WE list could deal with any DE threats, including the Hydra. Let us know how it goes.
Wood elf characters are cheap, so they might be extremely minimal like a scroll caddie and single Alter Hero, or be maxed out the way my regular list is; one Wardancer Lord, one scroll caddy and 2 Alter Heroes. Either way, it can generally be pointless to target them since the troops themselves are so powerful. I play sort of recklessly with them and loose my General all the time, but I still manage major victories or better with them in spite of it.
The major exceptions are Alter Kindreds which can be devastating if allowed to live long. Focusing magic on them can be good since they can't join units and are vulnerable. I tend to burn a lot of magic defense turn one protecting mine. Overwhelming them with magic can begin with this since they tend to have an important assignment and people who bring them don't want to see them die too early, especially machine gun Lords or HoDA Heroes.
Focus RxBs on Dryads. To-hit modifiers rack up quickly, but volumn of shots might scare them, drawing them into combat. With a 4+ AS and Hatred, Dryads looking to clean up your shooters might find themselves overwhelmed if they charge your RxBs while they're still at full strength. Use DR to compound the shooting threat.
Use your Harpies to harass any Great Eagles or Waywatchers he might bring. Harpies might even do a few too many wounds to a T3 Alter Kindred Lord on the charge. Use Shades to attack GG.
All in all, WE are a great matchup for DE. As a DE player, I feel supremely confident that I could take out any WE list, while at the same time I'm confident that my regular WE list could deal with any DE threats, including the Hydra. Let us know how it goes.
Representing The Battle Glade, whether they like it or not.
In the Winter,
The long and hallow eaves of the Willow
Dance like the shadows of Loec.
In the Winter,
The long and hallow eaves of the Willow
Dance like the shadows of Loec.
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Dreadlord dethezal
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I played a Wood Elf player last night, and he was able to use the damn tree singing spell to render my Dreadlord on a Cold One Chariot pretty in effective.
We ended up battling to a draw, but in my defense, I had brought a 2250 to the GW Veterans night - and this guy had a 3000 point list. We had to start right away or risk not finishing, so I filled up the remaining 750 pts in a rather roughshod manner. Needless to say I was ill-equipped to take on a list that featured two treemen and a Lord level character on a freaking Dragon. My fault though, should have taken the time to put out a better list - that'll teach me for rushing!
It was my first time using the Cauldron in 7th Edition - and all I can say is that the Dryads were hacked down to bits by my Black Guard with the extra attack blessing! TO BITS I SAY!
We ended up battling to a draw, but in my defense, I had brought a 2250 to the GW Veterans night - and this guy had a 3000 point list. We had to start right away or risk not finishing, so I filled up the remaining 750 pts in a rather roughshod manner. Needless to say I was ill-equipped to take on a list that featured two treemen and a Lord level character on a freaking Dragon. My fault though, should have taken the time to put out a better list - that'll teach me for rushing!
It was my first time using the Cauldron in 7th Edition - and all I can say is that the Dryads were hacked down to bits by my Black Guard with the extra attack blessing! TO BITS I SAY!
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Dreadlord dethezal
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Sorry, I meant to add something useful in that last post - if I could have a do over, I'd have taken a level 4 Sorceress along with a Level 1 or 2. Being able to cast chillwind twice is excellent - it won't stop all his shooting, but if you can save yourself from being shot at by a couple units while you advance, then all the better.
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Gethsemane
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The two things that Wood Elves hate most is Armor and Magical/Volume attacks (to get around their Forest Spirit ward).
They of course have counters to this, such as Lords with shooting attacks that ignore armor saves, but I generally find if you have a decent amount of both of these you're off to a great start vs. Asrai.
They of course have counters to this, such as Lords with shooting attacks that ignore armor saves, but I generally find if you have a decent amount of both of these you're off to a great start vs. Asrai.
aka DarkTyrany22
Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet.
Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet.
Thanks for the tips guys. I fought the Wood Elves today, really nasty dual treeman list, with 6x treesinging in every phase.
When the dust settled he had only 2 models left, his treeman and treeman ancient. Every other wood elf was slain. I lost my knights and my dragonlord, but the rest of the army was more or less intact.
When the dust settled he had only 2 models left, his treeman and treeman ancient. Every other wood elf was slain. I lost my knights and my dragonlord, but the rest of the army was more or less intact.