what is a better blessing from the cauldron

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Lord_carnage
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what is a better blessing from the cauldron

Post by Lord_carnage »

What is a better blessing from the cauldron for a unit of black guard with the ASF banner. +1 attack or killing blow?

and for other units?

Thanks

Bas
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Post by Deliverance ix »

That depends on the AS of the enemy unit. If it is for example a unit of chaos knights with a 1+AS then KB. If it is a unit of archers for instance with little or no AS then the extra attack will probably be more effective.
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Post by Calisson »

I once made a study about this topic:The D.R.A.I.C.H. Boot Camp – doping with a cauldron of blood
In short:
Heaviest armour, saving 2+, KB is better.
Next to heaviest armour, saving 3+, a 2nd attack is necessary, and if you have already 2 attacks, then get KB.
Medium armour to no armour, saving 4+, 5+, 6+ or no save, get +1 attack.
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Post by Crawd »

I never used BGs since the 7th edition but I used the Cauldron several times and what I can tell you is, if you can charge, depending on the charged unit it's +1A or KB. High AS units = KB while lots of small unit = +1A.

On Executionners or COK, +1A is better while on Corsairs and Witch Elves, KB is better. Of course, it's all about the charged unit, like a unit of zombies, don't use KB, it would be a waste, +1A is way better in this situation.

Of course, when you can't charge or when you know that you'll get a charge, the Ward will help a lot.
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Post by Vesidel »

5+ ward till they get into combat to help against shooting and magic, then it depends on what they are fighting. +1 attack for squishies, and KB against toughies.
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Post by Entreri bloodletter »

Ok, not trying to derail the thread but what would you use against Flesh Hounds? They don't have armor but have the ward save instead and two wounds each? Killing blow can make each wound kill a hound, but on the other hand an extra attack could be useful too. Any suggestions?
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Post by Demetrius »

For flesh hounds Id go for extra attack, because its still only on a 6 that it does an extra wound, which can be negated by the ward anyway.
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Post by Tzelok »

I agree with Demetrius, whenever fighting multi wound units that I can KB, I will usually stick to the extra attack. Speaking from personal experience (no math hammers) I found it usually ends up in my favour. That being said, my friend's flesh hounds tend to end up fighting my executioners, so I rarely have to make that decision.
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Post by Vesidel »

I can't fault either the KB or the +1 attack for fleshhounds, though the extra attack would be better statistically.
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Post by Entreri bloodletter »

Even when fighting flesh hounds with frenzied corsairs or perhaps black guard? I've got a game coming with with daemons and he plans on using 3 units of flesh hounds
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Post by Dalamar »

Hydra eats flesh hounds for breakfast.
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Post by Vesidel »

Who would really be crazy enough to let their flesh hounds near a hydra anyway?
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Post by Camaris »

Vesidel wrote:Who would really be crazy enough to let their flesh hounds near a hydra anyway?


In most games you can set up deployment to where they don't have a choice. i.e. in my army the flesh hounds can charge my battle line of dedicated cc units, where my hydra will be counter-charging or they can charge the other parts of my army which consist of fast units of dr, harpies, and flying characters that will most likely be running away. If they do the former, they die; if they do the latter, then my dr will more then make up their points by leading them around the table.
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Post by Dalamar »

Many, many people take the bait of flank charging a hydra with Flesh Hounds.

Expose your flank to a unit of Flesh Hounds
They gain +1 combat rez *instead* of easy kills on the handlers (one flesh hound being able to attack the handlers means death to both most of the time)
They take the bait like 90% of the time and the hydra slaughters them.
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Post by Vesidel »

I'll have to try that some time and see how it works.
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Post by Entreri bloodletter »

Dalamar wrote:Many, many people take the bait of flank charging a hydra with Flesh Hounds.

Expose your flank to a unit of Flesh Hounds
They gain +1 combat rez *instead* of easy kills on the handlers (one flesh hound being able to attack the handlers means death to both most of the time)
They take the bait like 90% of the time and the hydra slaughters them.


I don't know if you can say the hydra slaughters them, according to my calculations a unit of 5 flesh hounds should do about 2 wounds to the hydra and the hydra and handlers should do between 2 and 3 wounds back. Given that they have a flank and possibly outnumber, that's not great odds for you. Am I missing something?

Now if you can kill a flesh hound before reaching combat that will tilt the odds but that's not always possible.


P.S. I really like the idea of this tactic, just tilt your hydra so that they barely have the flank and they will think they are being smart, little do they realize they are falling right into your trap. Genius, I love it
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Post by Dalamar »

Flesh Hounds do 1.3 wounds

Handlers do 1 wound

Hydra does 2.3 wounds

So it's 1.3 to 3.3
on average.

You're already winning by two (two more wounds caused, and outnumber, against flank attack)
And since it's a topic about cauldron ;)
That hydra is quite probably buffed by something. 5+ ward? Extra attack? Killing blow? In this situation all are beneficial.
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