Ant wrote:@Bitterman: You seem to be forgetting that the cav unit in the flank WILL still win.
Assuming there are no other models on the table, yes. Pinning the Knights in place for three or four turns so they can get flanked and attacked in turn (remember the infantry keep Steadfast until they drop down to fewer than 10 models, which could take some time if they started with 40!) despite having been outmanouevred, is far too much of an influence... it's just a question of "get big unit, put it somewhere on the table, don't care about getting outflanked, it will be an automatic tarpit". That's the problem I have with this; should knights instantly run everything down, even with a frontal charge, without trying? Obviously not. Should knights sweep infantry aside if they manouevre skilfully and get a flank charge? I contend that yes, the likelihood should be that they should.
Also, as has already been pointed out, 5 chaos knights cost much LESS points than 40 spearmen. So what are you complaining about? If you took a bigger unit of cav you could cancel theur ranks too, and get more attacks.
Firstly, from memory, 5 Chaos Knights with the Mark of Khorne and FC are around 300 points... 40 Spearmen with shields and FC are also around 300 points. So units of broadly equal points cost, one has outmanouevred the other, and it can't reliably defeat the other. I don't see what that's encouraging, apart from to buy a whole heap more models. Shouldn't skill in manouevre be rewarded?
Secondly, and much more importantly - alright, take another 5 Knights to get a +1 rank bonus, +5 attacks, and cancel the infantry's rank bonus.
They are still Steadfast even with no rank bonus. So now you've got a 500 point unit that's outflanked a 300 point unit and is
still going to take three or four turns to defeat them.
As far as I can see cav is still devestating if they get a flank charge, and some cav (chaos knights, blood knights, lance formation brets with 4+ ranks etc) is still devestating to the front as well. All that has been done is that infantry, played well, now has a chance to hold these charges and a reason to be taken in addition to cav units. I can only see this as a good thing.
I think it clear that, since
no matter how many casualties the cavalry cause the infantry are highly likely to be steadfast and have typically a 60%+ chance of holding (which screws up those Bretonnians far more than Chaos Knights, by the way), "devastating" is an optimistic word for it.
I also think it obvious that the infantry don't need to be played well. Even when outmanouevred and charged in the flank - they're still Steadfast. It doesn't take much skill to just put a big unit on the table.
Are cavalry a teensy bit too good in 7th Ed? Yeah, probably - they're just faster infantry with a better armour save. Some adjustment to the balance was needed. These rules - Steadfast in particular, and the fact you keep it even if you lose your rank bonus in particular - have gone far, far too far the other way.