Lore of Dark Magic

[Cam.ron]

I know this has already been brought up a few people, however I could not find a thread dedicated to it.

Lore of Dark Magic, although all the other basic lores got updated and are now very powerful dark magic was not. However I don't think it has lost much of its worth as a lore, simply because now everything is a hell of a lot easier to cast now that wizards add their lvl to dice total when casting.
This means that on a lvl 4 black horror, which is still amazing, will be cast on a roll of 7 which i think is amazing considering how much potential this spell has for crippling large blocks of infantry which are the flavour of this new edition.

Soulstealer, Bladewind, and Word of pain also could be potentially deadly spells with low casting costs. Chillwind and doombolt are perhaps not as good but will not be useless if you roll these spells.

The question is, should we take it over the other lores i.e. death and shadow. I'll admit I previously overlooked Dark magic when trying to decide what spells to take, but after using Dark magic during an in store 8th ed trial game it was oh so deadly. I am currently thinking that I may run dark magic on my lvl 2 rather than shadow simply because it won't need to use many dice to get spells off and I think in combination with a lvl 4 death wizard there will be a serious amount of offensive magic flying around.

What do people think, will you still be taking dark magic?

[Olderplayer]

If playing Skaven, elves, and gun lines, Dark Magic is definitely the way to go with at least one caster. A dark magic and fire combo is very effective (fireball can be scaled up as needed and helps with regen monsters like hydras and Hellpit aboms). Chillwind shuts down a large shooting unit, making it both a killer and defensive at the same time, and soulstealer, bladewind, and horror reduce ranks in low T, lower S, horde units very fast and trigger panic checks frequently. Hit a unit of 50 Skaven slaves with soul stealer and watch one-third of them die and the rest panic and flee and the ranks go from five to three. Plus you caster gets to double her wound count above her starting wounds with soul stealer. Unfortuantely, we can't take life and metal and shadow are a bit too situational to choose in advance unless playing a sngle game.

Also, the rules state very clearly that if one rolls for the same spell as one already has, then one can CHOOSE (not roll) an alternative spell from the lore.

[Cam.ron]

Also, the rules state very clearly that if one rolls for the same spell as one already has, then one can CHOOSE (not roll) an alternative spell from the lore

.
this is perhaps one of my favorite new rules in regards to magic.
You have pretty much confirmed the things I was thinking about I'll mainly be playing against VC TK, Skaven and HE so I am thinking Death and Dark will be deadly combos against these guys in particular skaven and VC sniping heroes and then causing panic tests through dark magic

[Melikai the wicked]

Just want to throw in my two cents, I believe when taking lore of dark, Shadow should also be taken with spells that reduce a units T by D3 Black Horror Just got more interesting and its a great way to Hurt WOC without taking the lore of metal. Just something to think about

[Thanee]

You mean Strength... while Shadow can also lower Toughness, that is no use for Black Horror.

Bye
Thanee

[Gee]

You mean Strength... while Shadow can also lower Toughness, that is no use for Black Horror.

Bye
Thanee

Well shadow can lower either. In fact shadow can lower every stat except leadership. (If you accept Pendulum rather directly lowers wounds )

[Maldor]

A caveat about spells being easier to cast: keep in mind that wizards also add their level to dispel attempts, meaning if you have a Lvl 2 casting dark magic against an army with a Lvl 4 you still have to overcome a +2 dispel advantage.

[Rabidnid]

A caveat about spells being easier to cast: keep in mind that wizards also add their level to dispel attempts, meaning if you have a Lvl 2 casting dark magic against an army with a Lvl 4 you still have to overcome a +2 dispel advantage.

They start with fewer dispel dice though, and casters have to balance successful casting to avoid their phase ending with the more dangerous miscast table.

Cheap spells and high levels are a good thing.

[Timz]

There's a caveat. Cheap spells can waste dice because if you fail a spell you can't continue And 1 dice spells fail on 1 or 2. So for safety we have to use more than one dice, but that risks miscast.

I'd rather have a 12+ fireball doing 2d6 hits than a 6+ fireball only doing D6. The small one fails as often as a 7+ on 1 dice and if you use 2 dice and get IF the spell does barely anything.

[Cam.ron]

That is why I will likely take it on a lvl 4 and give a the lvl 2 death. Ill take sac dagger on the lvl four so if it looks like i'm not going to make the roll ill just add another dice and with +4 this should work most of the time i think.

Lvl 2 with death, tome will have to get closer to enemies to cast, the closer you get to the enemy the more dangerous it is, so i'd rather have my lvl 2 get killed than lvl 4.

I still have to test this out though. Do you guys think lvl 2 or lvl 4 would be better suited with dark?

[Timz]

Dark spells 5+/6+/7+/8+/10+/11+ (avg. 7.8 )

Metal spells (10 or 20+/ 7 or 10+ / 9 or 12+ / 9 or 16+ / 9 or 12+ / 12 or 15+ / 15 or 18+) (Average 12.4)

With max values metal has a 24" + 48" + 48" + 24" + 48" + 36"

Dark only has 24" + 18" + 24" + 24" + 12" + 18"

I'd rather give my Lvl.4 a rulebook lore than Dark for sure.

Boosted spells are vastly superior to unboosted ones. Winning battles from 36-48" gives a lot more safety to a Lvl.4, he's out of range of bows and Lore of Death type spells.

Since the Lvl.2 gets a lower bonus, Dark might be wasted less on him. I like Chillwind and Word of Pain for stopping shooting, but the rest of the spells are mostly "meh."

They're too short range and not rewarding enough. I'd rather have Metal against armor, Shadow for debuffing, or Death for close-range character-killing.

And Dark gets no lore bonus.

Death gives you 1/3rd of a power dice every wound caused.
Fire gives you +d3 to casting attempts subsequent fire spells against a unit.
Metal ignores toughness and armor.
Shadow lets your mage teleport to switch places with a 2+ armor save Master holding the Black Dragon Egg to do 2d6 extra hits in close combat while your mage walks off.


We get Power of Darkness even without taking Dark lore, so there's no incentive for choosing DE magic instead of upgraded magic.

Yes, Black Horror is an ordinance template, but Fire has Firestorm (ordinance), Shadow has Pit of Shades (ordinance) AND Okkam's Mindrazor (pure awesomeness), Death has Purple Sun (Ordinance), and Metal instant-kills 1/3rd of an entire enemy unit instantly with no saves (basically, ordinance-level of damage w/ no worry of scattering!)

If you're going to throw an extra dice into the roll to make sure the spell isn't dispelled, you might as well get a free bonus such as 48" range instead of 24" or 2d6 hits instead of d6.