Flying Blood Cauldron

Post by **Gee** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:48 am

Recently I read something that made me read Lore Of Shadow more closely.

Something I noticed were the targeting rules for Steed of Shadows. "..or a Friendly character within 12" No mention is made of needing to be on foot etc.

SO that got me thinking about what would I have fly around.

The cauldron is a good target so that you can strategically spread it's influence across the board.

The other is a master/dreadlord on chariot. Allowing it to be used as a warmachine hunter or even early rear charges.

What's everyones thoughts on this?

Ant · Post by **Ant** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:01 am

Interesting idea. Not sure if it is legal though, although with the new warmachine rules making it all 1 model just like mounts I suspect it is.

On a similar note, is it possible to give the hag on cauldron (or a LP on casket of souls...) a flying carpet and have it flying about the whole time??

Darktan · Post by **Darktan** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:06 am

you could give the priest the carpet, but not the hag, no idea if it would make it fly, it would be funny however.

Capricious · Post by **Capricious** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:30 am

I thought there was a restriction that you could only move a character of the same unit type, and both warmachine and chariot are an other unit type than the sorceress.

Setomidor · Post by **Setomidor** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:42 am

Capricious wrote:I thought there was a restriction that you could only move a character of the same unit type, and both warmachine and chariot are an other unit type than the sorceress.

No you're mixing the Steed of Shadows spell up with the special effect of the Shadow Lore. The special effect allows you to switch positions with another character of the same troop type within 18", and the Steed of Shadows allows you to move any friendly character within 12".

I can't see why a CoB would not qualify as such, and this of course goes for a Lord on Dragon or Chariot as well.

Emperorpenguin · Post by **Emperorpenguin** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:17 pm

A CoB is a war machine, not a character

Post by **Gee** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:35 pm

emperorpenguin wrote:A CoB is a war machine, not a character

A Cauldron of Blood is a Death hag mount. So probably a viable target.

What would you target with Steed then?

Phierlihy · Post by **Phierlihy** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:01 pm

The Cauldron of Blood is an upgrade to the Death Hag but certainly not a mount. Unless you can show me some text somewhere that says it is of course.

The Hag cannot leave her Cauldron. I don't believe Steed of Shadows would work.

Desert icon · Post by **Desert icon** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:04 pm

I'm not a terribly big fan of people calling the Cauldron of Blood a mount. I mean, she's definitely not straddling the thing as you would a normal mount (aside from some clever modelling). The Cauldron is simply an option available to the Death Hag, not a mount (I don't see the Cauldron fighting back against enemies in combat).

I am completely in agreement with phierlihy, there's no way you can move the Cauldron around with it because it's a War Machine, not a character, and the Death Hag can't leave the unit.

Starphoenix · Post by **Starphoenix** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:41 pm

Page 109 "The war machine can move using the rules for lone models... war machines can never charge or march."

If the CoB was an immobile war machine (Anvil, Casket, etc) it would have specified in the FAQ - it did not. The model for the CoB in 5th ed was a small chariot.

Emperorpenguin · Post by **Emperorpenguin** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:26 pm

It's really simple. Steed of Shadows allows you to move a character. A Cauldron is a War Machine joined by a character, it is not a character and not a mount

L1qw1d · Post by **L1qw1d** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:29 pm

CoB is now SPECIFICALLY listed as a WarMachine, so if you upgrade the unit, she transforms and rolls out- Sadly they fused the characters TO said WarMachine (in terms of being Wounds)...maybe they are all taking a bath together...

Asikari · Post by **Asikari** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:55 pm

Out of boredom, throwing my weight behind the "Cauldron is not a character, no steed of shadows for you," side of this discussion.

Mdk · Post by **Mdk** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:21 pm

I second that, and besides, have you ever walked with a 'cauldron' of soup without spilling some? Thats hard enough, let alone flying with one ...

Duke daedric · Post by **Duke daedric** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:15 am

Flying tomato soup anyone? bwahahaha

Post by **Calisson** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:05 am

Steed of Shadow could move the DH.
However, the DH's religion prevents her to leave the COB (see our army book).
So you can freely move the model of DH with SoS as long as she stays around the COB (so this move has not the slightest effect on the game, but you CAN do it).

L1qw1d · Post by **L1qw1d** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:45 pm

wait... I like that... because couldn't you technically slingshot the CoB thru the air following the DH?

Just move her 12" and then watch the enemies say "ha! we have them" and the "Cartoon Shadow of Imminent Death" appear over their heads like Wile. E. Coyote?

Fr0 · Post by **Fr0** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:03 pm

Setomidor wrote: thought there was a restriction that you could only move a character of the same unit type, and both warmachine and chariot are an other unit type than the sorceress.

You're thinking of the lore attribute, Smoke and Shadows.. while similar, they are different.

Flinging a CoB would have some very interesting results. It is now a war machine, and the spell says cast on the wizard, or a friendly character and she cannot leave the unit nor can the unit charge while she's part of it.

If you could cast it on her, then she could take a 10" movement, but could not charge. I don't think she's a valid target for the spell though.

Lord tsunami · Post by **Lord tsunami** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:14 pm

See it like this:

¤ war machines cant march, right?
¤ a death hag can, right?
¤ a death hag cant leave the cauldron (at least not without a veil and a male relative lol).

this does not mean that the death hag can make a march move and the cauldron will just be pulled along. If she was alone she could march. if she was alone she could be teleported. however, teleporting her (or marching for that matter) would force her to leave the cauldron behind, and shes not allowed to do that. hence she cant march and she can not be teleported

L1qw1d · Post by **L1qw1d** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:22 pm

It's standard Fly movement, but I'm guessing you'd need to cast on all 3, so my joke fell faster than my cartoon cauldron

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:25 pm

The cauldron aside, that's a good point that Steed of Shadows can now be cast on mounted characters. That opens up a useful range of possibilities for a spell that's arguably the worst in that entire Lore.

Phierlihy · Post by **Phierlihy** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:12 am

Yeah...Dragon charge - turn 1!

Setomidor · Post by **Setomidor** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:08 am

Fr0 wrote:
Setomidor wrote: thought there was a restriction that you could only move a character of the same unit type, and both warmachine and chariot are an other unit type than the sorceress.

You're thinking of the lore attribute, Smoke and Shadows.. while similar, they are different. ;)

Hey, watch it who you're quoting. :)

Post by **Gee** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:45 pm

phierlihy wrote:Yeah...Dragon charge - turn 1!

The steeds fly move effectively happens in the remaining moves phase. So no charges.

With the Dark Elves having a bit of a vulnerability to warmachines, my plan is to drop a master on chariot into position to threaten my opponents warmachines.

Asikari · Post by **Asikari** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:19 pm

Gee beat me to it. I was about to point out the same thing.