Dogs O' War with Dark Elves

Matthias-draketh · Post by **Matthias-draketh** » Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:55 pm

Howdy everyone im thinking of taking a giant in my dark elf army with the 'fluff' that after a raid my general found him as a baby and decided to adopt him as his own to raise, obviously realising quite soon the child was different when he was taller than his adopted father when he was only 8 years old.

So does anyone else field dogs of war units?
and as a brief story, what do you think?

Obviously all feed back wanted both good and bad.

Phierlihy · Post by **Phierlihy** » Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:21 pm

Are you referring to the rules for Giants from like 20 years ago?! Dude, that's not even legal any more! Just go buy a Hydra.

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:23 pm

Sounds reasonable enough fluff, although a bit too sappy for a dark elf.

Might be better that he found the baby wanted to raise him as a slave, but began to realise his potential when he grew faster and bigger than the other slaves. Or that he deliberately raided a giant's stronghold to steal a baby giant that he could raise and warp himself.

That said, Dogs of War is no longer valid under 8th ed rules (a point that it makes much clearer than in 7th ed). So you're going to need a willing opponent who's happy for you to step outside of the rules to include your giant.

Personally, while I liked the variation and opportunities offered by Dogs of War, I do think that it made the game a bit unbalanced and, sadly, it was probably right for them to discontinue it.

Good luck with your army and future games with it

Matthias-draketh · Post by **Matthias-draketh** » Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:25 pm

Dont like the look o the hydra, always wanted to make one of the new giants you see so wanted to have a reason to make and paint one.

Thought one could still use dogs of war units in an army, never mind than.

In which case what i may do is use it in games with the friends ive started gaming with but in official stuff, take it out and replace.

Red... · Post by **Red...** » Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:56 pm

No, Dogs of War is no longer viable as a legal army choice: in fact, it's not even listed in the current Dark Elf army book so it's unusual for Dark Elf players to think that they can (the confusion used to be with the old 6th ed army books - e.g. dwarfs and wood elves - that still list it as an option, but this has now been FAQed for each such book as no longer applicable). Are you sure you have the latest DE army book?

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:12 pm

Dogs of war don't need to be listed in the DE book. All the instructions for inclusion are in the DoW rules themselves. They are still 'legal'.

Giants are badly overpriced though. I wouldn't use one. They rarely make it to combat in my beasts army, and when they do, they rarely last more than a phase.

Matthias-draketh · Post by **Matthias-draketh** » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:30 pm

Hmmm would seem i need to look into their profile, could be an interesting turn O.o

Which army book would be best for giant profiles? O&G, OK or BoC?

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:30 am

Matthias-draketh wrote:Hmmm would seem i need to look into their profile, could be an interesting turn O.o

Which army book would be best for giant profiles? O&G, OK or BoC?

Google search for it. I found this one, there are probably others.

http://www.innercirclegamingclub.com/uploads/giant-rules.pdf

Heh, personally, I'd rather my dreadlord captured 2 DoW cannons...

Matthias-draketh · Post by **Matthias-draketh** » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:19 pm

A good idea, would be a good reason for my cousins empire army to be a bit miffed :lol:

But as i say ive always wanted to make and paint the new giant, even if after a few games it doesnt perform well i can than look into something else.

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:13 pm

It is a nice model. Plus it will get you kudos vs all those DE haters out ther who expect double hydras. (unless you take it plus double hydras, of course.)

Dangerous Beans · Post by **Dangerous Beans** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:53 pm

Thank you for clarifying this Sulla - I've always been a big fan of Dogs of War though prefer to only include 'evil' themed DoW units in my druchii (eg. the undead unit that restores lost models to its unit with each kill!).

It is still somewhat of a grey area in that many players do not seem to realise (including myself until now) that DoW WERE still legal to use in armies (including the Giant).

Red... wrote:it was probably right for them to discontinue it.

Again, I had thought (until now) that this was yet another HIGHLY annoying habit of GWs - to allow use of Giants in all armies (and thus promote sales of their nice customisable model) and then to suddenly limit it to merely those whose army list stated a cost and options.

Just as with the loss of storm of chaos (a worldwide warhammer campaign supplement that attempted to work out the latest end to the warhammer timeline - several years ago now, that was discontinued) meant people who'd specially converted their armies en-masse into gorgeous new creative concepts that IMHO enriched the game and hobby.

But alas I digress and go off topic... *sighs*

Matthias-draketh · Post by **Matthias-draketh** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:26 am

I do in fact remember the storm of chaos, had that big 'Archon' bloke at the helm i do believe.

A bit of an update with the giant, it has been ordered on should arrive at mine tomorrow. hopefully.

Im going to hopefully convert the weapon to look suitably dark elvish, and hopefully post some photos of work in progress as soon as possible. will however make a new thread for that.

Vladdrak · Post by **Vladdrak** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:45 am

I don't really see the problem. If you don't like the hydra model, just convert your giant (suitably evil blades, armour, giant handlers, etc.) and use the 'counts as' (hydra) rule. Make sure the conversion makes the giant look fast and dark elvish evil. Normally I think most of your opponents will not make a big fuss of it (especially if it is a really stunning conversion) if you tell them in advance that it is representing a hydra.

Guinea pig hydra · Post by **Guinea pig hydra** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:48 am

I was interested in this too due to a fond love for the Giant (when writing my Chaos lists they usually came to 225pts over yet the Giant would not go), so I asked my GW whether Dogs O' War rules still applied. They told me no

Of course I'm not saying that this is the definite answer, and it may be a case of simply checking with your opponent if it's ok beforehand, but I don't think they can legally be used anymore. Big shame.

Doriili bariiliia · Post by **Doriili bariiliia** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:44 pm

Giants has rule in white Dwarf when the Kit came out Giants were legal in Dark Elf armies at that. Time, they aren't any more Dogs of war was never really an over powered army, it I think was just more work than than the sales justified. Some one made a rather well balanced Dogs of War Codex on the net for it and the Regiments of Renown are very well balance updates. My locak group is allowing me to use those. If you have a local group and don't play in GW [who frown on custom rules even in friendly games] you could get them to agree to the Giant, because giants are their own kind of special you don't really need to change anything.

Matthias-draketh · Post by **Matthias-draketh** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:09 pm

Well it arrived earlier today and started making it almost instantly. so far looks good but just thinking of a few suitable conversions for it at the moment although weapon wise have used the dragon skull so that fluff wise it could be a high elf dragon that was slain and 'given' to the giant for its amusement, of which it fashioned a weapon out of and also used parts of its hide for armour.