WHFB stop?

Persuader · Post by **Persuader** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:17 pm

I've got the feeling that there are less WHFB players these days.
Is this just were I live or is it worldwide?

Malus99 · Post by **Malus99** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:26 pm

I haven't been playing the game long enough to say whether the number of WHFB players is declining but I know there are not very many WHFB players around here compared to 40K, and GW is placing a lot more emphasis on 40K than warhammer from what I have seen, unless there are several expansions and a movie I don't know about.

Post by **Dalamar** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:09 pm

Wherever I go I have no problems finding warhammer players... I doubt it's declining.

Flash29 · Post by **Flash29** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:02 pm

well i've seen some decline here in belgium, partialy because of 8th, partially because a popular gamestore closed(in brugge). but i think with the tournaments picking up again there will be more activity.

Malekii · Post by **Malekii** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:49 am

With the new edition I'm seeing an increase of whfb players so don't know what your talking about

Meteor · Post by **Meteor** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:32 am

Must be just your area then Pers

Tzelok · Post by **Tzelok** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:07 am

I find it has declined in my area as well but 40K is alive and kicking. Everytime I go to gw the ratio of 40k to FB players is about 3:1 when it used to be the other way around.

Maybe its just my area though

Lord damian valar · Post by **Lord damian valar** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:36 am

Where I am from also many regular Fantasy players are taking up more on 40k at this moment.

Many of them complain about 8th edition and don't like the system that much. they feel that there is less tactic involved then last editions. I do not agree with them and hope that when tournaments start to flow more and people learn how to handle the obvious simpleton way of playing that many of them will give it another chance.

Darktan · Post by **Darktan** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:51 am

Over here we've got the opposite problem, it's nigh on impossible to find a 40k player, but theres fantasy players in droves.

Thenick18 · Post by **Thenick18** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:54 pm

i have the same problem 3:1 40k to fantasy, but the 40k crew tends to be in the 10-18 year old range whereas the fantasy is 17+ so I can't complain too much, I don't mind not having to deal with the younger players. It takes some level of maturity to understand its just a game and you aren't really conquering another race.

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:32 pm

I've heard about lots of Fantasy players really growing disgusted with the spending they have had to do for 8th. Bulking up Core, expanding regiments, basically doubling the size of everything they already had in their army... Too much time/effort/money into just being able to play the game, so they're looking at other game systems.

Asikari · Post by **Asikari** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:32 pm

I'll admit it here:

I haven't yet played a single 8th edition game. Watched a few, but work and/or family schedules have conflicted with potential play time. Thus I've tried to limit my comments on the forums to statistical analysis and rules commentary rather than play experience. So there's one less player, temporarily, I hope.

On a similar note, I think I've played one or two games of 40K since 5th edition came out, they nerfed my army of preference so harshly.

Thenick18 · Post by **Thenick18** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:51 pm

Tethlis wrote:I've heard about lots of Fantasy players really growing disgusted with the spending they have had to do for 8th. Bulking up Core, expanding regiments, basically doubling the size of everything they already had in their army... Too much time/effort/money into just being able to play the game, so they're looking at other game systems.

Another big reason I haven't played in a while, my 7th ed army doesn't cut it and I'm not sure I want to spend the time and money to get and paint the extra models in order to have bulkier units that are "required" in 8th, especially when I just finished painting not too long ago, feels that way at least, and I'm the type who won't use a model unless its painted.

Outbreak · Post by **Outbreak** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:57 pm

Over here fantasy was declining heaps before eighth. Since eighth some 40k players have taken up fantasy while some fantasy players have quit/taken up malifaux/40k. Seems 40k players like eighth and fantasy players don't in this area.

The virgin forest · Post by **The virgin forest** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:28 am

Well, my crowd is expanding. Mainly people who played years back, who are now finding time to play once again. The rules have nothing to do with it, but 8th is much appreciated

Then again these people doesn't care much for rules or competitiveness, its all about having fun, playing with cool models and being 'childish' after years of study/work

Post by **Dalamar** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:14 am

Blondshade wrote:8th is dumbed down from 7th.
its warhammer 40k 2.0

it requires far less tactics than last edition. now its point and click.

guys at gw are d1cks for making it like 40k

This is the kind of thinking that turns people off playing Warhammer in 8th edition, and also the kind of thinking prevalent among people afraid to use tactics to win their games.

BooHoo, my 5 knights can no longer break large blocks of 30+ infantry on charge anymore.

Pregocleric · Post by **Pregocleric** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:35 am

I used to visit my local GW a lot on thursday nights veterens club, and back before eighth there used to be a lone table reserved for Fantasy, compared to the five others being used for 40K. Even then if no-one was about with WFB people used to convince the staff to let them play 40k on it. Now that Eigth Ed is out it's a pretty even mix, some nights Fantasy even outnumbers 40k. Personally I love eigth but I would have to agree with Tethlis and Thenick; it's very engineered to buying more gw produce. I'm just lucky I'd been saving up for a new army when the new rules hit.

Blondshade · Post by **Blondshade** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:43 pm

Dalamar wrote:
Blondshade wrote:8th is dumbed down from 7th.
its warhammer 40k 2.0

it requires far less tactics than last edition. now its point and click.

guys at gw are d1cks for making it like 40k

This is the kind of thinking that turns people off playing Warhammer in 8th edition, and also the kind of thinking prevalent among people afraid to use tactics to win their games.

BooHoo, my 5 knights can no longer break large blocks of 30+ infantry on charge anymore.

Can I ask you something dallamar my boy
Which edition required more tactics in order to pull out a victory? 7th or 8th?

Malus99 · Post by **Malus99** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:42 pm

I think they require very different tactics, but I am beginning to think that 8th has a wider range of tactics required, in 7th, I found that 90% of the time, whoever got the charge would most often win a combat, 'Killy' units would just wipe out the front rank and prevent attacks back, then the other side would have to take a break test, combats were so often decided in the first round, and usually were in favour of the unit which charged. Dalamar is quite right in saying that the small but deadly units, especially the knights, were overpowered in that they could just trample enemy units with ease, break them, run them down, rinse and repeat. I am finding a whole new range of tactical challenges in 8th and I think overall, I am beginning to think that 8th does require more in the way of tactics than 7th, though admittedly I'm not exceptionally experienced in either edition and not a particularly good player, so I cannot really say whether those who played more tactically against better opponents in 7th had a much more difficult and tactically challenging time than I did, and what that level of play is like under 8th, all I know is that my level of play under 8th has become more tactical.

I'm even rather starting to like the steadfast rule :shock:

Kadahn · Post by **Kadahn** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:51 pm

I've come from someone who was primarily a 40k player with a mild interest in Fantasy to someone who has not touched his 40k armies other than to move them out of the way since 8th edition came out.

I would certainly not say that 8th has dumbed down from 7th, quite the opposite. The new rules mean that you must rely far more on synergy between your units than ever before. Steadfast, step up and the increased emphasis on Initiative means that it is harder to rely on a rock paper scissors strategy to win.

I've said it a lot with my own gaming group, but if I could have the 40k lore and the WHFB rules then I would be a very happy man indeed. WHFB is more intuitive and realistic than 40k is right now, especially where shooting is concerned, which is ironic.

As opposed to Fantasy dying off, I know of far more people who have become interested since the new edition came out. To my mind it has breathed fresh new life into a game which wasn't clickig with me before - not because I didn't understand the rules, but because the game itself wasn't ticking the boxes.

Littleboyblues · Post by **Littleboyblues** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:57 pm

I don't like that way of thinking. A lot of people are complaining because 8th edition was a reboot they changed quite a bit. It made how you win different. 5 sword masters can't charge a unit of 50 empire spearmen kill the front rank have 45 spearmen pick their noses and run way and get cut down from the back like before. I think they improved combat and made it a lot harder to break stuff and I enjoy the more realistic portrayal of combat. A lot of snobby elitist complain about how this edition doesn't take tactics. A.) I'd love to play you as you move every unit forward and I table you with my "tactics" B.) If all your interested in is tactics then warhammer is not for you. Warhammer is about background, a challenging game, and painting and modeling. If you want to play 'tactics' with out all that story and painting holding you back go play chess. To the people that don't want to buy new models, if the army you play came out with a new army book you would be having to buy new models and paint so that really isn't 8th eds fault. (silver helms a great example) Most people I've met that hate 8th edition so much really haven't played that much. Is 8th edition faultless? No... I stopped playing in 7th because I got tired of 98% of my games being just dancing about the board trying to get the charge only playing 2250 and pitched battle. 8th ed MAY be less 'tactical' but I see it as just a different way to win than people had been playing for 6th and 7th. 8th ed made me actually enjoy the game again and get out my druchii and paint them and play. That's more than 7th ed ever did for me.

Back on topic... Around here with every one or two that quite fantasy we get another 3 or 4 whom start. It may just be in your area.

Bitterman · Post by **Bitterman** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:04 pm

Dalamar wrote:
Blondshade wrote:it requires far less tactics than last edition. now its point and click.

This is ... the kind of thinking prevalent among people afraid to use tactics to win their games.

Not sure how much sense that makes.

Anyway... I have seen a slow decline in both 40K and Warhammer players around here, though that is largely due to the price gouging more than anything else. I wouldn't say there are proportionally fewer WHFB players than before since 8th Ed, though I wouldn't say there are more either. AFAICT it's not made a lot of difference?

Speaking only for myself, I still prefer 7th. 8th is tolerable so long as you use halfway sensible terrain tables instead of the standard one in the rulebook (I just can't put any belief in a battle where a Nehekharan Sphinx is sitting right next to a Mist-Wreathed Swamp which is adjacent to an Anvil of Vaul and a Temple of Skulls... it makes no sense!) but that's easily fixed and, well, people want to play with the latest rules, so 8th Ed is pretty much what I'm lumbered with. Most of the 8th Ed games I've seen or played so far have been won by either (a) a super unit, rampaging across the battlefield with nothing able to stop it or (b) a super spell, cast with a ridiculous number of power dice and including a double six. I don't find either of those things particularly tactical, or particularly appealling, but IME it does seem to be what is necessary to win in 8th Ed. In truth, the problem isn't the core rules but the army books (which made 7th Ed a lot less fun towards the end as well) - the imbalance and shameless power creep really ought to be considered an embarrassment by the game designers.

Blondshade · Post by **Blondshade** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:53 am

Bitterman wrote:
Dalamar wrote:
Blondshade wrote:it requires far less tactics than last edition. now its point and click.

This is ... the kind of thinking prevalent among people afraid to use tactics to win their games.

Not sure how much sense that makes.

+1

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:30 am

Bloodshade, that's quite enough now. Your kind of attitude isn't contributing to the discussion at all. And the above post is spam. One more like that and you'll get a warning.

I've been turning towards 40k more and more. It feels far less time consuming (and time is one thing I don't have much of) and more dynamic in a way. And it has the same tactical depth as warhammer, just in a different way.

I also didn't feel like buying a truckload more models to make my army competetive again (this neatly coincided with another price hike in Oz as well...). And the games I've played just didn't feel right. The meta game has changed so much (small elite armies are out, casualties are horrendous, and magic is hugely powerful) that I just don't connect with the game properly any more. I'll be selling off a lot of models soon because I just don't use them any more, which is a pity because I liked 6th and 7th edition very much (7th is still the best version of the game, although I won't say it is any more or less tactical, just different).

Tomcowlin · Post by **Tomcowlin** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:56 am

@Blondshade: Well I guess haters gotta hate. The old tactics are replaced with new ones and they are exactly the same amount. The introduction of steadfast, for example, means you need more synergies to break blocks. Before you'd just let your dragon, knight unit etc run around killing most things. Its the elitist attitude of some fantasy players that stops new people joining.

Anyway back onto topic. Just before the release of 8th there were occasions where in my LGS no people would bring fantasy and only 40k would take place (leaving me looking lonely with my dark elf army

). I found that around the release of the new edition fantasy picked up but just slightly. Now, though, theres a hell o lot more fantasy games going on and people building new fantasy armies, which I think is great since it gets incredibly tiring playing the same army over and over.

I'd suggest trying to get your 40k friends into fantasy. Its a tough ask but you could suggest instead of them doing a new 40k army they try a new fantasy one, you can lend them models to proxy with and the relevant rulebooks until they get their own. O, and remember to let them win!

that'll get them real excited.

Tom out!