fluff fight

[Blondshade]

who would win in a total war lizardmen or our dark elves? why?

[Red...]

This has come up before. It really depends on a lot of circumstances that you've not provided here: are they fighting in Naggaroth, Lustria or somewhere else? Who is attacking, who is defending? Why are they fighting? What kind of terrain are they fighting in? Without these variables, the question isn't answerable imo. Sorry.

[Drainial]

In Naggaroth, Druchii, in Lustria Lizardmen.

[Demetrius]

On a Druchii site, Dark Elves.

[Dalamar]

In Lustria:
Dark Elves have the initial advantage of aggressive raid, claim a number of ruined cities, only to lose to attrition as the Lizardmen retreat into the jungles and let the climate do the job for them. Soon the Druchii fall to tropical diseases and very unwelcome climate.

In Naggaroth:
Lizardmen travel north to regain a couple artifacts, They get as far as Arnheim, claim the city, mistaking it for a Druchii city (it is in fact an Asur colony) and stop, blocked by the mountain ranges. Soon the unforgiving weather affects the cold blooded physiology and the Lizardmen withdraw without gaining anything.

[Dante valentine]

I think that both armies would fare rather poorly in a protracted Campaign in each others territories.

Just look at the casualty rates of British Troops in the 19th Century in exotic places, combined with the fact that most military camps tend to have outbreaks of Dysentery and Cholera anyway, i can't imagine any Elf lasting long in the tropical jungle of Lustria. That's before any insects bite them or any lizardmen hit them!

On the other hand, as we tend to live in rather fortified cities rather than scattered villages (like say, the Empire!), the sheer amount of man power and military strength it would take to bring any of these cities to ruin would be astronomical!

If it was a little bit of both, then i think unless the Druchii had lots of early strategic victories, the spawning rate of the Lizardmen would probably mean they would win through attrition!

Regards

D

[Vulcan]

The extra bodies of the Lizzies would be offset by the Druchii command of the sea. Druchii raiders would tie down a lot of lizzies in garrison duty, and the rate of loss there could be just as bad - or even worse - than in pitched battles, as the Druchii raiders could muster overwhelming strength to hit ONE garrison and retreat... forcing the lizzies to bring in a new garrison... while the Druchii again muster overwhelming force to hit another garrison...

Long-term it would be a stalemate. Neither side is equipped to deliver the other a knockout blow, both sides are ill-equipped to deal with the other's home climate and terrain on any sort of extended basis. The real looser would be the people of Arnheim who would be caught in the middle. Which really makes it a marginal win for the Druchii, doesn't it?

[Kalath'n'dhar]

Long-term it would be a stalemate. Neither side is equipped to deliver the other a knockout blow, both sides are ill-equipped to deal with the other's home climate and terrain on any sort of extended basis. The real looser would be the people of Arnheim who would be caught in the middle. Which really makes it a marginal win for the Druchii, doesn't it?

I go for this

[Blondshade]

what about magic?

[Drainial]

The Slaan are the more powerful wizards but there are very few of them. Magicaly on a level playing field the gathered forces of the LM would probobly be the greater but again all things are relative. If fighting in Naggaroth much of the Slaans' magical power would have to be funneled simply into keeping their forces warm enough to keep moving at all.

[Red...]

As I understand it, us Dark Elves abandoned the pursuit of boring good magic to experiment with more powerful dark magics.

Unfortunately, turns out that we're a bunch of gullible suckers: good magic is waaaay better than dark.

Presumably the sales representative who convinced us it was a good idea to switch from light to dark was the same one who persuaded us to ditch those super fast, quick witted, noble dark steeds of ours for a bunch of slobbering, slow and dull witted lizard mules. We really don't have a good track record for realising when we're being scammed - even now, I suspect that Malekith is transferring his bank details to a guy in Nigeria who claims to have access to several millions of pounds worth of gold and silver, but he just needs Malekith's help to get it!

[Blondshade]

As I understand it, us Dark Elves abandoned the pursuit of boring good magic to experiment with more powerful dark magics.

Unfortunately, turns out that we're a bunch of gullible suckers: good magic is waaaay better than dark.

Presumably the sales representative who convinced us it was a good idea to switch from light to dark was the same one who persuaded us to ditch those super fast, quick witted, noble dark steeds of ours for a bunch of slobbering, slow and dull witted lizard mules. We really don't have a good track record for realising when we're being scammed - even now, I suspect that Malekith is transferring his bank details to a guy in Nigeria who claims to have access to several millions of pounds worth of gold and silver, but he just needs Malekith's help to get it!

lol that made me laugh good post.

i still think our magic is more powerful than lizards and beat them in a magic fight but its the physiucal portion i would be worried about.

do we raid south amreica often or no? or do they raid us here in canada a lot?. i think they only come to get their gold right? if we take it that is?

[Khel]

As I understand it, us Dark Elves abandoned the pursuit of boring good magic to experiment with more powerful dark magics.

Unfortunately, turns out that we're a bunch of gullible suckers: good magic is waaaay better than dark.

Presumably the sales representative who convinced us it was a good idea to switch from light to dark was the same one who persuaded us to ditch those super fast, quick witted, noble dark steeds of ours for a bunch of slobbering, slow and dull witted lizard mules. We really don't have a good track record for realising when we're being scammed - even now, I suspect that Malekith is transferring his bank details to a guy in Nigeria who claims to have access to several millions of pounds worth of gold and silver, but he just needs Malekith's help to get it!

i still think our magic is more powerful than lizards and beat them in a magic fight but its the physiucal portion i would be worried about.

While we are "up there" with some of the strongest magic’s in the Old World, I don't think we come very close to matching the magical capability of the Slaan's.

Because there are mage bomb nukes (ie: Teclis) and then there are Slaan style nukes (you're aren't going to survive this). Not to mention their connections with the Old Ones and the gates to perpetual oblivion (Chaos since the dawn of time/passing of the Old Ones).

[Dante valentine]

Made me laugh! I really don't understand why we abandoned horse based cavalry, sure Cold ones are mean but....

Anyway, back to point.

While i am not denying that the slaan are uber mage units, they are surely out numbered dozens to one by our sexy lady sorceresses? And each slann is a permanent loss while we can just stick another mage in a tower and tell her to read some books!

Still, i do suppose its easier to kill one of ours than it is to kill a large, floating, immobile, defenseless toad....yeah, that makes sense!

[Drainial]

Horses won’t charge a solid line of infantry; I am thinking that the huge aggressive stupid cold ones wouldn’t have that problem. It doesn't come into the game of course but since we are in the realms of fluff its worth bringing up. Cold one heavy cav would probably be the most effective knights in the world simply because they could reliably charge home. Ironically stupidity means that in game they are considerably less reliable than other heavy cav.

On the magic thing sure there are going to be more sorceresses than Slaan but there are also the skink priests to take into account who will bump up the LZ numbers. Both races have powerful magic and it wouldn't be a white wash either way but DE have three mages of lower Slaan level. Malekith, Moraithy and Furian are perhaps on a par with a 5th or maybe 4th level Slaan but no other sorceress is going to be close. Plus the Slaan have the few 2nd gen left and they are mountain moving powerful.

[Blondshade]

so what would be a comparison of our verison of powerfulmagic compared to the lizardmen?

[Drainial]

Hard to say, the best examples of post vortex epic spells done by each are on the LZ part Mazamundi moving a mountain in order to prevent dark elves perusing him after he retook the star of Queztel (I may be getting the circumstances wrong but there was certainly mountain moving on Mazamundi's part).

For Dark elves it is harder to pin point. In the Storm of Chaos Moraithy and her coven summoned a daemonic legion but that has since been ret coned. Malekith at the battle of Finuvel plains was on a par with Teclis who narrowly won and there is obviously plenty of info on wonder boy’s exploits.

[Khel]

Hard to say, the best examples of post vortex epic spells done by each are on the LZ part Mazamundi moving a mountain in order to prevent dark elves perusing him after he retook the star of Queztel (I may be getting the circumstances wrong but there was certainly mountain moving on Mazamundi's part).

For Dark elves it is harder to pin point. In the Storm of Chaos Moraithy and her coven summoned a daemonic legion but that has since been ret coned. Malekith at the battle of Finuvel plains was on a par with Teclis who narrowly won and there is obviously plenty of info on wonder boy’s exploits.

What about the creation of the Black Arks (that's kinda post vortex )? When the magical vortex backfired and was drowning the land, the Dark Elves cast spells upon their cities and castles which transformed them into those floating citadels. That was the work of more than one Dark Elf sure, but still an incredible spell in my opinion. You can actually see the spell at work with the huge picture of the battle during the Sundering where you can see the armies of elves getting washed away by the tidal wave as well as what looks to be a city upon a strange craggy rock getting swamped by water as well.

There's also history of Malekith drowning a city with a tidal wave after he was done pillaging it. Can't remember the name of it exactly but the city contained massive pyramids or ziggurats and when Malekith was done with drowning the city, at low tide, the massive structures only barely broke the surface of the water.

[Blondshade]

so one on one who would win in a magic fight?
what about multple of our mage vs several of there slann or priests or whatever like an all out fight
?

malekith ftw

[Khel]

One on one? Our strongest against their strongest? It's either Malekith or Morathi against Lord Kroak and either way Lord Kroak would decimate him or her, or anyone really. Unless I'm mistaken about Lord Kroak, he is currently the strongest wizard in the world (even though he is dead, his spirit fights on) followed closely by Teclis or Morathi. Teclis is walking orb of energy and power granted from Asuryan (he has prayed to Asuryan before and had his prayers answered, most notably at the Battle of Finuval Plain where he threw everything he had into a single attack on Malekith and right before he cast the spell he prayed to Asuryan and it says that his prayers were answered. Whether this is true that his prayers were literally answered or they’re simply speaking metaphorically is open to further debate). While Teclis is a walking conduit of power, the Slaan are walking/floating super nova’s.

I'm not too sure about Morathi however, she certainly has been around longer than most people save the Slaan's and she wrote the book on Dark Magic, but you rarely hear about her exploits as one of the world's best wizards. You hear more about her being the most beautiful person in the world but what's that next to being able to crumble mountains with your mind power? It should be noted that she saved her son Malekith from the vengeance of a God. While everyone (save Aenarion) who has walked into the Flames of Asuryan has died, Morathi managed to save her son by pouring her own dark magic’s into him for little over a year. That must definitely count for something if you can stop a god from killing someone.

Multiple mages vs several Slaan's or Skink Priests I'd say that would be a very interesting fight. Normally I'd say the Lizardmen would still win because the sheer concentration of power within two or so second generation Slaan's is out of this world, but then again we are the Dark Elves and several high ranking Sorceress' of the Dark Convent School's is nothing to joke about either.

If I had to pick one however, it would be the Slaan in a battle of multiple mages, with an honourable mention to the Dark Elves for thinking up some sort of cunning, deceitful plan that inevitably backfires upon themselves as they have been doing for the last five thousand years.

[Dalamar]

Point for point?

Dark Elves would definitely win an all out sorcerous battle, considering each dead slann is a dead slann and they're not coming back. While the covens are churning out sorceresses by the day.

Unless I'm mistaken, we can put out 2 lord level sorceresses for each slann. The skink priests would outnumber us but without Slann they aren't that scary really.

[Blondshade]

One on one? Our strongest against their strongest? It's either Malekith or Morathi against Lord Kroak and either way Lord Kroak would decimate him or her, or anyone really. Unless I'm mistaken about Lord Kroak, he is currently the strongest wizard in the world (even though he is dead, his spirit fights on) followed closely by Teclis or Morathi. Teclis is walking orb of energy and power granted from Asuryan (he has prayed to Asuryan before and had his prayers answered, most notably at the Battle of Finuval Plain where he threw everything he had into a single attack on Malekith and right before he cast the spell he prayed to Asuryan and it says that his prayers were answered. Whether this is true that his prayers were literally answered or they’re simply speaking metaphorically is open to further debate). While Teclis is a walking conduit of power, the Slaan are walking/floating super nova’s.

I'm not too sure about Morathi however, she certainly has been around longer than most people save the Slaan's and she wrote the book on Dark Magic, but you rarely hear about her exploits as one of the world's best wizards. You hear more about her being the most beautiful person in the world but what's that next to being able to crumble mountains with your mind power? It should be noted that she saved her son Malekith from the vengeance of a God. While everyone (save Aenarion) who has walked into the Flames of Asuryan has died, Morathi managed to save her son by pouring her own dark magic’s into him for little over a year. That must definitely count for something if you can stop a god from killing someone.

Multiple mages vs several Slaan's or Skink Priests I'd say that would be a very interesting fight. Normally I'd say the Lizardmen would still win because the sheer concentration of power within two or so second generation Slaan's is out of this world, but then again we are the Dark Elves and several high ranking Sorceress' of the Dark Convent School's is nothing to joke about either.

If I had to pick one however, it would be the Slaan in a battle of multiple mages, with an honourable mention to the Dark Elves for thinking up some sort of cunning, deceitful plan that inevitably backfires upon themselves as they have been doing for the last five thousand years.

So lord kroak actually kroaked? haha thats funny how they named him. does that mean he was necromcer brought him back or he is undead?

[Khel]

I'm not sure on the exact details but as far as I can remember he is literally a giant, mummified toad corpse being lugged around by saurus warriors. He's physically dead, that's for sure, but his spirit and presence in the realm of magic is so powerful that it lives on after his passing. Sort of like how the Emperor of Man in Warhammer 40K lives on spiritually.

[Drainial]

He was killed during the first great chaos war when one of the Slaan he was sitting with atop a pyramid (in order to better rain down fire and death on the daemonic hordes below) succumbed to the power of a greater daemon which possessed it and ripped the other Slaan to pieces up close and personal. Lord Kroak being a creature of insane power (much greater then given the absence of the Vortex) essentially told mortality to bugger off and bound his spirit to his deceased bones the resulting spirit form proving to be painful for daemons to even be around.

As for the fight thing certainly DE could produce more high level magic users but two even senior sorceresses are not going to be a match for a Slaan. Think back to Teclis' exploits and consider that each Slaan save perhaps 5th gen (who would be close) is either the equal or superior of Teclis.

Now even considering that some the wonder boy's supposed exploits as described in the HE AB may be meant as exaggerations of a legendary character (certainly we are forced to admit the propaganda element twisting truth in our own AB particularly the 5th ed one, I don't see why we should take everything in their AB as solid fact) it certainly seems that one Slaan ought to be the equal of half a dozen powerful sorcs if not more.

Certainly in the case of the 2nd gen Slaan, who are admittedly very rare, you would need a good score of accomplished sorceresses to take them down, at least.

I suppose it boils down to numbers really and numbers are something we don't have much info on. We know that the numbers of the Slaan are very few and that they are now irreplaceable, we know that there are quite allot of Skink Priests of moderate power and we know that there are at least enough Sorceresses for there to be six convents. What we don't know is whether very few means twenty or two hundred, nor do we know how many sorcs each convent usually has on staff as it were.

In the end I think the only certainty in such a mage war would be that neither side would ever fully recover from it, the Slaan would be reduced so much that Lustria would become like the Southlands but in turn the Convents would be pretty much emptied for centuries while the few remaining sorceresses trained up the next generation and a huge amount of experience and knowledge would be lost with the atomised lovelies. Not to mention the fact that where ever they were fighting would resemble a nightmarish landscape.

I am not saying that it is impossible for the DE to win convincingly but there would have to be allot more sorceresses than I imagine there to be and they would have to come up with a cunning plan or two along the way.

[Ming]

I'm sure DE would send their assassins first to decimate slann mages; then their army would find little opposition even in lustria.

DE use subtle strategy; LM are dumb reptiles.....
No doubt we'll win in the end.