So I'm hittin the books hard with my Druchii as I seek to update them to head into the tournament circuits. As it stands I have never ran the Indy GT's due to the fact that I'm a Canajiun and we don't really have the support in my neck of the woods and now I'm heading south to get involved in the good'ol US of A's tourney scene.
So what I'm looking for is the most furious, frustrating build y'all see in tournament play so as I can force my freinds into emulating them. I don't need point for point traumatic re-tellings of the battles, just what builds seemed to stymie you (so not DE specific, tournament builds... Read what I'm writing? Pick up what I'm putting down!?) and any of the more dirty/underhanded/pure awesome combos they may have brought to upset your A-Game.
I intend to run unorthodox to a point, as I find DE suffer from list redundancy much like most Daemon players (I was formally one of these and found my best results came fromoutside the mold) and am just looking to round out my list in the next coming months. High placing in a GT is on my bucket list, I don't like to lose and have no intentions of dragging my army to another country to do so.
Sorry of I'm rambling... I am semi cocked and riled up!
Frustrating match-ups!
Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights
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Bonesaww666
- Corsair
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:21 pm
- Location: Niagara Falls, Canada
Whats your list / playstyle with youre druchii ? The druchii armys matchups depends heavy on the list you play.
My most hated matchup with all my lists is skaven.
Cheap and alot of ranks.
Hard to get points from.
WLC negates the cloak of haag reef masters armour save.
Shoot your infantery to bitz.
My most hated matchup with all my lists is skaven.
Cheap and alot of ranks.
Hard to get points from.
WLC negates the cloak of haag reef masters armour save.
Shoot your infantery to bitz.
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Its not an boring army, it has a defensive magic and shooting theme :-).
Its not an boring army, it has a defensive magic and shooting theme :-).
wel theres a few.
skaven.
gray seer on foot in a unit of 30 clanrats with a bsb with storm banner. 2 more units of clanrats, same size, all with a poison wind mortar. The grey seer would have 4+ ward and a powerscroll.
then you have 2 units of slaves 40+. 2 units of gutter runners with poison. a unit of 21-31 plague monks with a furnace(flaming banner on unit, plague monk with censer a small ward save, shadow trinkit) a abomination, 2 cannons, and if the points allow it a doomwheel.
high elves: 37 white lions, with a life mage with book of hoeth, a bsb in 40 spear elves. some eagles, chariots, archers.
deamons: 2 blocks (3 in 2250 +) of bloodletters supported by a herald of khorne each. 2 units of flamers (although now thats probably obsolete) a herald of tzeech with light (casting buffs on khorne units, blasfemy!) then some chaff
dwarf castle lists,
ow and salamanders i hate lizard salamanders
skaven.
gray seer on foot in a unit of 30 clanrats with a bsb with storm banner. 2 more units of clanrats, same size, all with a poison wind mortar. The grey seer would have 4+ ward and a powerscroll.
then you have 2 units of slaves 40+. 2 units of gutter runners with poison. a unit of 21-31 plague monks with a furnace(flaming banner on unit, plague monk with censer a small ward save, shadow trinkit) a abomination, 2 cannons, and if the points allow it a doomwheel.
high elves: 37 white lions, with a life mage with book of hoeth, a bsb in 40 spear elves. some eagles, chariots, archers.
deamons: 2 blocks (3 in 2250 +) of bloodletters supported by a herald of khorne each. 2 units of flamers (although now thats probably obsolete) a herald of tzeech with light (casting buffs on khorne units, blasfemy!) then some chaff
dwarf castle lists,
ow and salamanders i hate lizard salamanders
As mentioned by previous posters our bad matchups almost allways depends on your own list. It also depends on comp/restrictions.
How ever I find that in an all comers scenario (you use a all comers list & your opponents also has all comers lists) skaven would be on top, second would be WoC & (belive it or not) shooty wood elves in third (and yes WE needs an extremly good player but when played right they can be awful to be up against).
Why are those 3 my top?
Skaven can delay use more then almost any army, they can put the hurt on with both magic/shooting and to a certain extent combat. For list option flash got the point pretty much spot on.
Woc: Hurdle in this match up is the armour aswell as the combat prowess. A hellcannon with a good day can single handlely win the game. Chariots, Hellcannon, Lvl 4 disc Tzentch, couple of 3+ wardsave Disc heroes, chaff and warriors are the basic idea of the list.
WE: Massive shooting on T3, is never enjoyable. And don't forgett that you will almost never ever get any points that matter, mostly chaff. Just a massive amount of chaff and glade guards. Just max out on shots. Way watchers/bow of loren character to handle pendant/unkillable flying lords.
There are of course other armies that can give us a difficult time; most of them have the common theme of Template Weapons or High Toughness.
But then again those are the match ups can be countered if you design your list for it. But with a list specific goal you might end up in a matchup where you just get smashed since your list can't handle the normal threats.
How ever I find that in an all comers scenario (you use a all comers list & your opponents also has all comers lists) skaven would be on top, second would be WoC & (belive it or not) shooty wood elves in third (and yes WE needs an extremly good player but when played right they can be awful to be up against).
Why are those 3 my top?
Skaven can delay use more then almost any army, they can put the hurt on with both magic/shooting and to a certain extent combat. For list option flash got the point pretty much spot on.
Woc: Hurdle in this match up is the armour aswell as the combat prowess. A hellcannon with a good day can single handlely win the game. Chariots, Hellcannon, Lvl 4 disc Tzentch, couple of 3+ wardsave Disc heroes, chaff and warriors are the basic idea of the list.
WE: Massive shooting on T3, is never enjoyable. And don't forgett that you will almost never ever get any points that matter, mostly chaff. Just a massive amount of chaff and glade guards. Just max out on shots. Way watchers/bow of loren character to handle pendant/unkillable flying lords.
There are of course other armies that can give us a difficult time; most of them have the common theme of Template Weapons or High Toughness.
But then again those are the match ups can be countered if you design your list for it. But with a list specific goal you might end up in a matchup where you just get smashed since your list can't handle the normal threats.
Betrayal comes natural...
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Bonesaww666
- Corsair
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:21 pm
- Location: Niagara Falls, Canada
Well this is a general summary of what the comps I will be subjecting myself to throughout... Seeing as this just recently came across my desk, I suppose I will have to change my list... Only 2 RBT's!
Restrictions:
All Armies -
Max 12 Power Dice used in any single phase.
Look Out Sir!: Characters will get "look out sir" versus the following spells that
automatically remove models or entire regiments: Final Transmutation, Dwellers Below, Dreaded 13th, Infernal Gateway 11-12
effect.
Normal requirements for lookout sir apply.
Generic Restrictions
No unit may cost over 450 points
Maximum points for a single, non-character unit is 450 points
Max 4 warmachines, only 2 of the same type
Max. 50 models with missile weapons with a range of 12”
DE – Max 35 Repeater Crossbows in the army, 0-2 Harpies, 0-2 Shades, 0-1 Hydra, Crown of Command not allowed on a
character with Pendant of Khaleth, May use a maximum of 6 power dice to cast a spell
Restrictions:
All Armies -
Max 12 Power Dice used in any single phase.
Look Out Sir!: Characters will get "look out sir" versus the following spells that
automatically remove models or entire regiments: Final Transmutation, Dwellers Below, Dreaded 13th, Infernal Gateway 11-12
effect.
Normal requirements for lookout sir apply.
Generic Restrictions
No unit may cost over 450 points
Maximum points for a single, non-character unit is 450 points
Max 4 warmachines, only 2 of the same type
Max. 50 models with missile weapons with a range of 12”
DE – Max 35 Repeater Crossbows in the army, 0-2 Harpies, 0-2 Shades, 0-1 Hydra, Crown of Command not allowed on a
character with Pendant of Khaleth, May use a maximum of 6 power dice to cast a spell
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Bonesaww666
- Corsair
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:21 pm
- Location: Niagara Falls, Canada
Funny enough, if you ram even a half strength Cold One Knight bus into a horde of Skaven Clan Rats, you have an extremely good chance of sending them packing on the turn. True story!
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
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Kargan daemonclaw
- Highborn
- Posts: 734
- Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:16 pm
how do half a dozen cold one knights and a combat dreadlord break a steadfast clanrat block that will be leadership 10 with a reroll?
played daemons yesterday
2 large blocks of blood letters with herald general and herald BSB.
block of daemonettes with herald with siren
tzeentch herald for magic support.
slaanesh chariot
4 units of 3 screamers, 2 fiends and 2 blood crushers.
got tabled apart from the cauldron which was just out of reach of the big bl block.
played daemons yesterday
2 large blocks of blood letters with herald general and herald BSB.
block of daemonettes with herald with siren
tzeentch herald for magic support.
slaanesh chariot
4 units of 3 screamers, 2 fiends and 2 blood crushers.
got tabled apart from the cauldron which was just out of reach of the big bl block.
6wide including champ and BSB master (no dreadlord), that's 18 attacks +1 for champ and +2 for Master. That's 21 S6 hatred attacks, then we add in 12 S4 attacks from the mounts. That's a total of 33 attacks on its own. I also remember seeing 5 DR in its flank. So you can see how Steadfast might've been broken, if it was broken, it's a deadset double 1 on break check. Even if it wasn't broken in the turn the half bus charged, it would've easily disappeared in the second round of combat. Throw the Dreadlord into the unit as well, you might be able to push for one turn break.
Bad luck on the game. What kind of list did you run? I don't think you should've got tabled if you had a unit with lots of attacks? Bad dice? Some poor judgement?
Bad luck on the game. What kind of list did you run? I don't think you should've got tabled if you had a unit with lots of attacks? Bad dice? Some poor judgement?
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.
Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -
Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike
Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride
Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock
*Magical properties possibly imbued
Here's an evil one for WoC and particulary Chaos Dwarfs:
Doom & Darkness + Hellcannon.
WoC can also run pandemonium with a hellcannon shot.
Also some evil stuff with WoC: Knightstar or Chosenstar of tzeentch with heroes in and all that eye of the gods crap... where you can use two war shrines and get 3+ ward and 5 in toughness.
You can also add two level 1 nurgle mages (or level 2) which snipe 1 and 1 damage on your characters (no strength and no armor so bye bye pendant lord/bsb).
As their heroes can be flying on discs with 1+ armor and 3+ ward without much tweaking, they can make our lords look easy... of course, they pay a lot of points for it.
Oh yeah, I forgot that they will be able to adjust your miscasts, so you need to be sure you don't get any irresistable forces, or your sorceress will be dead quickly.
Doom & Darkness + Hellcannon.
WoC can also run pandemonium with a hellcannon shot.
Also some evil stuff with WoC: Knightstar or Chosenstar of tzeentch with heroes in and all that eye of the gods crap... where you can use two war shrines and get 3+ ward and 5 in toughness.
You can also add two level 1 nurgle mages (or level 2) which snipe 1 and 1 damage on your characters (no strength and no armor so bye bye pendant lord/bsb).
As their heroes can be flying on discs with 1+ armor and 3+ ward without much tweaking, they can make our lords look easy... of course, they pay a lot of points for it.
Oh yeah, I forgot that they will be able to adjust your miscasts, so you need to be sure you don't get any irresistable forces, or your sorceress will be dead quickly.
Personal quote: "It's better to do little damage and lose nothing than to do lots of damage and lose everything."
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10
Final tournament score for 7th DE book in 8th edition - W/D/L: 25/5/10
Meteor wrote: I also remember seeing 5 DR in its flank. So you can see how Steadfast might've been broken,
okay first of all where talking 6 knights including a bsb and a champion yes?, and the bsb has a magical banner (hydra banner) AND the cauldron is giving them +1 attack
so thats 21 attacks lets say 3 miss, and 3 don't wound thats 15 dead rats (if they do not have a parry save) and 4 wounds from the cold ones thats 19 dead rats, which means enough rats to have there ld 10 steadfast. did you know skaven can shoot into combat if its enemy vs slaves ? did you know a skaven cannon allows no as? and did you know you need 5 normal rank and file to have a look out sir? which means he would snipe out your bsb next turn, pretty good deal for 80 points of slaves isn't it.
and a unit in the flank doesn't break ranks unless it has 2 full ranks or more. which means they still would be steadfast at ld 7 since disruption does not cause loss of steadfast, only a forrest causes loss of steadfast.