Wound Tennis and other odd moments

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Rork
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Wound Tennis and other odd moments

Post by Rork »

Well, I picked up my copy this morning and had a good read of it.

A few things intrigue me from the book as a whole:

Slaanesh owns you now. Seems GW are just getting a bit lazy with their fiction - I don't remember Slaanesh consuming the souls of Elves in the past. Seems you boys were partying a little too hard and didn't notice.

Same old mistakes. As alluded to in the title - ward saves can be used against the Black Amulet (it only references armour saves), and thus two DE players could happily bounce wounds between them. It would be funny if this hadn't been an issue 20 years ago.

Army wide ASF. Yawn. Lazy army design for the High Elves when they received it, still lazy now.

Character. I do like how the Hydra can regrow heads and its attacks are dependent on its wounds. The spin that GW has on the old rules and ideas gives it some flavour.

What's that GW? Magic Resistance isn't all that? Hellebron's Amulet of Dark Fire. Somewhere, Flesh Hounds are plotting their revenge.

Whatever you can do, I can do better. Seems Hellebron has competition in the dual-wielding stakes. I'd have thought that Morathi wouldn't have been seen dead in the same style as her rival...

But still, the army feels a bit more about the units rather than the item combos (even the "good" items that remain are hardly devastating) of old. That alone gives me some optimism over how GW is creating these books. Let's hope they keep it up. And give Flesh Hounds that +4...
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Re: Wound Tennis and other odd moments

Post by Amarel »

Rork wrote:Slaanesh owns you now. Seems GW are just getting a bit lazy with their fiction - I don't remember Slaanesh consuming the souls of Elves in the past. Seems you boys were partying a little too hard and didn't notice.

In 40k, Slaanesh consumes the souls of the Eldar. Merging in the ideas, I guess.
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Re: Wound Tennis and other odd moments

Post by Rork »

I was an Eldar player when I was into 40k ;). At least 40k had the Fall to introduce Slaanesh and its attachment to Eldar - Fantasy...doesn't.
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Re: Wound Tennis and other odd moments

Post by T.D. »

Rork wrote:Well, I picked up my copy this morning and had a good read of it.

A few things intrigue me from the book as a whole:

Slaanesh owns you now. Seems GW are just getting a bit lazy with their fiction - I don't remember Slaanesh consuming the souls of Elves in the past. Seems you boys were partying a little too hard and didn't notice.

Dat is one hell of a hangover!
Can't believe they transposed that one myself :roll:



Same old mistakes. As alluded to in the title - ward saves can be used against the Black Amulet (it only references armour saves), and thus two DE players could happily bounce wounds between them. It would be funny if this hadn't been an issue 20 years ago.

You would have thought Matt Ward would have noticed that.

Geddit :D
I for one welcome the return of wound tennis amongst Dark Elf rivals !lol!


Army wide ASF. Yawn. Lazy army design for the High Elves when they received it, still lazy now.

Extremely lazy. But I will take it just to put two the proverbial two fingers up at the "Speed of Asuryan" fanboys 8)

Character. I do like how the Hydra can regrow heads and its attacks are dependent on its wounds. The spin that GW has on the old rules and ideas gives it some flavour.

It is interesting as a rule in isolation. Just a shame for us Monster Mash-lovers that the overall effect is a heavy hit with the nerfbat. My old-book Hydras tended to get one-shotted by cheap enemy war machines.....which suggests that this new incarnation is almost unviable :evil:

What's that GW? Magic Resistance isn't all that? Hellebron's Amulet of Dark Fire. Somewhere, Flesh Hounds are plotting their revenge.

I would have preferred more powerful antimagic on a lord level character with no armour save!

Whatever you can do, I can do better. Seems Hellebron has competition in the dual-wielding stakes. I'd have thought that Morathi wouldn't have been seen dead in the same style as her rival...

Takes a bit of cool off Morathi I have to say. You can't jack Helle's swagger!

But still, the army feels a bit more about the units rather than the item combos (even the "good" items that remain are hardly devastating) of old. That alone gives me some optimism over how GW is creating these books. Let's hope they keep it up. And give Flesh Hounds that +4...


My feeling is mixed. Fluff is better than expected. Rules are a little gimmicky and it feels like too many options are suboptimal and we are lacking some tools for the current meta job *DaemonPrinces**TzeentchDiscos**Skullcrushers**cough**cough*
The last book was like I wrote it myself...and given I am a total Dark Elf fanboy I can understand why players of other races didn't dig that state of affairs.
I will enjoy and experiment with this new book. But I will miss the glory of awesome fluff being made incarnate on the battlefield! :twisted:
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Re: Wound Tennis and other odd moments

Post by Jossy »

How is ASF lazy?

Its such an unsubstantiated comment which I see several people throwing around as if its some kind of fact, but never giving reason.
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Re: Wound Tennis and other odd moments

Post by Demetrius »

Jossy wrote:How is ASF lazy?

Its such an unsubstantiated comment which I see several people throwing around as if its some kind of fact, but never giving reason.


I completely agree that army wide ASF is a lazy rules design. There is already a mechanic that dictates who gets to strike first, its called Initiative. ASF on a unit or a character is fine, or even a spell. But, a whole army having it (while already having high initiative) is just lazy, because its like a one size fits all approach. That said, I will enjoy ASF on my Darkies still.
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Re: Wound Tennis and other odd moments

Post by T.D. »

Jossy wrote:How is ASF lazy?


It deletes the variability of weapons and troop types (albeit these are not properly represented in the game mechanic as is).

It makes a mockery of the already existing initiative stat...which presumably exists to determine initiative. Not to mention the weapon skill stat.
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Re: Wound Tennis and other odd moments

Post by Sulla »

Jossy wrote:How is ASF lazy?

Its such an unsubstantiated comment which I see several people throwing around as if its some kind of fact, but never giving reason.
Because, in order to get the army to strike first the majority of the time (an acceptable goal for Elves), they gave them a rule which makes all Elves strike simultaneously (combat lords and hyper reflexed assassins strike at the same time as Athrin the mule-driver) and get to-hit rerolls vs most armies.

Surely just increasing the initiative and weapon skill would have achieved the same result without the negatives? Hence the conclusion of lazy design.
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Re: Wound Tennis and other odd moments

Post by Layne »

Jossy wrote:I see several people throwing around as if its some kind of fact, but never giving reason.


We gave our reasons when the first ASF High Elf book came out, as per previous posts. It's considered an accepted fact here.
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Re: Wound Tennis and other odd moments

Post by Jossy »

All very nice excuses but in reality it does reflect well the desired eliteness of the elves.

Two Elves of equal stats end up striking simultaneously
If one has higher WS, but same I the strike at same time with a to hit advantage to the better skilled Elf, and vica verca
If one has higher I, they get to strike ahead of their compatriate

Initiative represents the speed of an attack, quick reflexes etc
WS reflects how good you are at landing a blow, wielding your weapon, deflect blows etc
ASF is the ability/skill to land a blow before anyone else, not necessarily the speed in which you can land that blow
I can't fathom how people think ASF is lazy . It does exactly what it is meant to
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Re: Wound Tennis and other odd moments

Post by Drasanil »

Jossy wrote:If one has higher I, they get to strike ahead of their compatriate


No he doesn't, ASF Vs ASF is simultaneous strikes regardless of the models' respective initiatives this edition.
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Re: Wound Tennis and other odd moments

Post by Calisson »

I'd expect ASF/ASL/I to be fine-tuned in next WHFB 9th edition.
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