Ring of Hotek
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- Executioner
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Ring of Hotek
Am I missing something here?
Do double 6's cause the caster to suffer 2 miscasts?
Do double 6's cause the caster to suffer 2 miscasts?
- Daeron
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Re: Ring of Hotek
Not to my understanding of the rules. You implicitly ask a very interesting question: what is the increased chance for a miscast because of this ring? I'll math-hammer the answer this week.
My guess is that it is roughly the double... but there's an interesting catch: the more dice you use, the bigger the chance. So for spells using more power dice, the window of "safe casting" may prove significantly reduced. For spells using fewer dice, the MR(3) might prove very effective at stopping a lot of harm.
My guess is that it is roughly the double... but there's an interesting catch: the more dice you use, the bigger the chance. So for spells using more power dice, the window of "safe casting" may prove significantly reduced. For spells using fewer dice, the MR(3) might prove very effective at stopping a lot of harm.
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"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
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Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
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Re: Ring of Hotek
It says that it causes a miscast on double 1's and double 6's but you already miscast on double 6's. So I must be missing something here.
Re: Ring of Hotek
If the rule text said "any enemy that attempts to cast or target a spell on a unit within 6" of the bearer will suffer a miscast on a roll of double 1." [full stop], it would imply, that you'd only suffer a miscast on double 1s *instead* of double 6s since the AB ruling would supersede the BRB one. So, it's merely an extension from double 6s to double 6s and double 1s.
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Re: Ring of Hotek
That's my understanding as well. But I don't want to dismiss Vampire1812's doubts too quickly.
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.
Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
Re: Ring of Hotek
French AB says double 1s "in addition to" double 6s.
So the miscast on 66 is just confirmed, not doubled.
So the miscast on 66 is just confirmed, not doubled.
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Re: Ring of Hotek
I don't think translations will help us here, GW translations are prone to failure anyway. But I guess, the French makes the intention pretty clear. Anything else would be quite the surprise, quite frankly.
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Re: Ring of Hotek
Another needed clarification. I believe we are all saying the same thing but there are some that might interpret another way. Just throwing it out there.
Re: Ring of Hotek
Well, let's say I can see where you're coming from, but I think the Hotek ruling just supersedes (completely) the normal miscast ruling, hence, just a single miscast per double 6. Sadly I can't find a global limitation to one single miscast per spell - it's pretty intuitive, I guess, but no hard facts to support it here.
Re: Ring of Hotek
The rule says "a roll of double 1, as well as double 6." In other words, in addition to miscasting on double 6s [as is normal], they also miscast on double 1s.
Don't mean to be snide or anything, but after that chillblade thread, I'm starting to think some people are deliberately going out of their way to 'not understand' really simple lines of text. GW is by no means a perfect rules writer, but this hardly an example of that.
Don't mean to be snide or anything, but after that chillblade thread, I'm starting to think some people are deliberately going out of their way to 'not understand' really simple lines of text. GW is by no means a perfect rules writer, but this hardly an example of that.
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Re: Ring of Hotek
Drasanil wrote:The rule says "a roll of double 1, as well as double 6." In other words, in addition to miscasting on double 6s [as is normal], they also miscast on double 1s.
Don't mean to be snide or anything, but after that chillblade thread, I'm starting to think some people are deliberately going out of their way to 'not understand' really simple lines of text. GW is by no means a perfect rules writer, but this hardly an example of that.
Not at all. I just got home and re-read it also. Its intent follows the rule. Good to clarify I was listening to a podcast review and that's where the confusion came into play.
Re: Ring of Hotek
What about a roll that has a pair of 1's as well as a pair of 6's?
Re: Ring of Hotek
I know you were joking, but if a roll has two pair of 6's, it's still a single miscast, so that's hardly an issue^^
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Re: Ring of Hotek
I'm lost here. I thought that double six resulted in irresistible and miscast. Double ones just miscast. Doesn't this ring stop enemy irrestible in range? Otherwise what is the diff? I mean doesn't it just mean with the ring double 6 mean fail fail not woohoo and fail?
Re: Ring of Hotek
Double 6 is still woohoo. The Ring doesn't kill this. But it grants you another fail without woohoo at double 1.
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Re: Ring of Hotek
Basically it means you double the risk of miscasting without doubling the risk of IF if the opponent throws 2 or 3 dice at a target. The wording of the rule is pretty clear that double 1's do not grant IF. If the opponent throws more than 3 dice then the risk of miscasting almost doubles, but not quite, because one could get double 1's and double 6's (very low chance) with 4 or more dice thrown at a spell. Notice that this applies to any target unit within 6" of the bearer of the Ring, which includes augments cast by the enemy wizard on enemy units within 6" of the bearer.
The real question is how valuable is this really? You gain MR3, which rarely saw play even though DE armies have had access to it for some time, and, at most, probably increase the chance of miscasting when the opponent targets a few or your units and once in combat some of his units but I am not sure a model with MR3 is one I want in or close to combat. Maybe running this in a lvl 4 bunker run just behind your big combat units but close enough for a miscast risk on enemy units in combat with your units makes the most sense.
The real question is how valuable is this really? You gain MR3, which rarely saw play even though DE armies have had access to it for some time, and, at most, probably increase the chance of miscasting when the opponent targets a few or your units and once in combat some of his units but I am not sure a model with MR3 is one I want in or close to combat. Maybe running this in a lvl 4 bunker run just behind your big combat units but close enough for a miscast risk on enemy units in combat with your units makes the most sense.
Re: Ring of Hotek
Somerandomhero wrote:I'm lost here. I thought that double six resulted in irresistible and miscast. Double ones just miscast. Doesn't this ring stop enemy irrestible in range? Otherwise what is the diff? I mean doesn't it just mean with the ring double 6 mean fail fail not woohoo and fail?
For clarity here - normally a roll of a double 6 is a miscast and an irresistible force. A roll of double 1s is nothing. With the ring the roll of a double 6 remains unchanged, the roll of double 1s now becomes a miscast.
Re: Ring of Hotek
What, MR didn't see play? Oh, it did. The higher miscast chance is just gravy since MR (3) costs 45p anyway and those 5p are well spent if alone for fearmongering. And why not put it on a (BSB?) Master. We have silly easy access to 1+AS, so no worries there.
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Re: Ring of Hotek
Sorry for adding to confusion, I thought for some reason that double ones made you suffer miscast even without the ring. I'm not sure where that idea came from. Thanks for the clarification.
Re: Ring of Hotek
It says attempts to cast. So even a spell that does not go off can force a miscast.
- Daeron
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Re: Ring of Hotek
Correct, Martin.
And Somerandomhero: the idea could be a remnant of previous editions, where double 1's cause a miscast. There is the rule that rolling under 3 for a spell will fail, regardless of modifiers and cast values.
And Somerandomhero: the idea could be a remnant of previous editions, where double 1's cause a miscast. There is the rule that rolling under 3 for a spell will fail, regardless of modifiers and cast values.
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.
Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
- marcopollo
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Re: Ring of Hotek
Massive MR are used in deathstar/mage bunkers in a defensive army. But what I would like to know is whether this MR is cumulative with other things like null stones etc.
Re: Ring of Hotek
"If a model has two sets of MR, the two do not combine, it uses the highest"
BRB, page 72
BRB, page 72
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Re: Ring of Hotek
^^ thought so.
Too bad though. In my defensive army lists, I like to have MR 4 or 5. But, as suggested, a peg master might be a good place to put this.
Too bad though. In my defensive army lists, I like to have MR 4 or 5. But, as suggested, a peg master might be a good place to put this.
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Re: Ring of Hotek
If the character is in a unit with a cauldron of blood, it gets a 6+ ward save from the cauldron. The MR(3) does stack with the regular ward save, adding up to a 3+ Ward Save against magic.
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.
Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze