In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Haagrum
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In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Haagrum »

Having collected Dark Elves for a good few years, and being something of a fan of Corsairs, I was pretty excited when the Fleetmaster (subsequently referred to as BAFM) was confirmed for the new Dark Elves book.

Since then, of course, it appears that everyone has concluded that the BAFM is useless for anything other than fluff reasons and will never be played otherwise. Over-priced at 15 points more than a Dreadlord, with fewer options and the same stats (other than an additional Wound) and magic items allowance as a Master, the list of grievances goes on.

Although the BAFM is not an optimal choice, or an all-rounder like the Dreadlord, it can still be a very useful tool in the Druchii arsenal – if played well, and used for the right purposes. The BAFM is not a BAMF and won’t set the world on fire alone, but then, it’s arguable that neither does anything else in the new Dark Elves book.

Basic review – statistics and rules:
The BAFM is basically a Master with defined equipment, one extra Wound, and one further special rule. At twice and change the cost of a basic Master, it’s hard to see much inherent value here.

Always Strikes First and Murderous Prowess are standard Dark Elf rules, and will mean re-rolls against most opponents. In the latter case, it will be important to push the BAFM’s Strength up to maximise the value of re-rolling 1s to wound. At Strength 4, it’s a nice bonus, but hardly game-changing against anything with Toughness 4 or higher. At Strength 6 or above, though, Murderous Prowess is outright brutal, as our Executioners amply demonstrate.

Finally, we come to the real special rule for the BAFM, Show No Weakness. If the BAFM fights in a challenge, or kills an enemy character, he and his unit become Unbreakable for the rest of the turn. This, in my view, doesn’t justify the high price tag if you read it with the attitude “how does this help me break open a game?” – perhaps it might, if the word “turn” were replaced with “game”, but I digress. There are certain armies against whom this rule won’t be very helpful without substantial magical support – Ogres and Daemons immediately spring to mind – and others against which the value will be a matter of meta-gaming and your local playing environment.

Show No Weakness does not require that a challenge is ongoing – a straight reading of the rule shows that the mere fact that the BAFM accepts a challenge (or has his challenge accepted) will trigger Show No Weakness. It’s easier to get value out of this rule if your opponent is the sort to issue or accept challenges, but it’s not absolutely required. The BAFM can be made hard to kill if he’s in a challenge with the right equipment.

Fun and profit with Show No Weakness:
The key to understanding the power of the BAFM (in my view) is not in how dangerous Show No Weakness is, but in how the mere existence of that rule can affect your opponent’s playing style. It forces the BAFM to focus on two things – the ability to kill multiple-Wound models in one turn (who are likely to be hard targets) and the ability to survive any retribution from such models or their units if the BAFM is unable to pull off the assassination in one turn. However, the BAFM need not be a reliable killer in every round of combat to use this ability – it will be enough that the BAFM can butcher a target and survive the counter-attack for one turn.

The two key considerations for getting the most out of Show No Weakness are survivability and hitting power, in that order. Show No Weakness is worthless if the BAFM is dead. Leadership is a secondary consideration if this ability is triggered, since the BAFM is Unbreakable once this ability activates and the Standard of Discipline (or a nearby Bloodwrack Shrine) will make him Ld 10 anyway. However, it’s worth investing some thought into the matter, as a failed Fear test will make it much harder for the BAFM to kill anything.

Once the BAFM is in combat, there are four possible scenarios which could play out, three of which involve challenges being issued:

1. Challenge issued
The ideal scenario is that your opponent issues or accepts a challenge with a character that the BAFM can be tooled up or enhanced to take out or survive

If you’re fighting Warriors of Chaos, remember that every unit champion with the Eye of the Gods rule and every Chaos Sorcerer must issue a challenge, and must accept one if it is issued, in every round of combat. This provides an effective and relatively safe way to use Show No Weakness, unless there are characters in the unit.

If the BAFM issues a challenge, and it is refused, then you get to remove an enemy character from the fighting rank. Unless you’re taking on a deathstar unit, that will probably drop the number of characters in the fight on your opponent’s side to one, at most. If you are taking on a deathstar unit, you still have options, and will be able to take the most dangerous enemy out of a round of combat. Either way, it is not the worst possible outcome, as the BAFM can focus on generating combat resolution or killing another character to trigger Show No Weakness.

Things get dicey when the challenge is issued by an enemy character who will butcher the BAFM in a fight. This is most likely against Ogres, Warriors of Chaos, and Daemons. If possible, throw a unit champion into the grinder and aim for another character in the unit, if you can. With the right magic support, the BAFM might survive the fight too. Realistically, however, you can’t rely on the BAFM in every situation, so plan ahead, pick your fights and stack them in your favour as far as possible, but accept that it won’t always work.

2. No challenge issued
Sometimes, you will not want to issue a challenge with the BAFM if it would allow your opponent to move a squishy character or wizard out of the fighting ranks, or if the BAFM would be flattened in a challenge. In that case, or if you think that such engagements will be likely in a tournament, the BAFM should be able to kill a character in one round of combat and survive. This has the advantage of not relying on your opponent to act in a particular way, but can make it harder to use Show No Weakness effectively.

EDIT: However, it's worth noting that models with ASF all strike simultaneously. If your opponent does not issue or accept a challenge, but has a character in the unit, there is no reason why the other models in the BAFM's unit could not help to chip away at his intended target and take off a Wound or two (but not too many) before you deliver the coup de grace with the BAFM. Taking credit for others' work is, after all, a proud Druchii tradition - if the killing blow comes from the BAFM, Show No Weakness will be triggered. With the right buffs (such as Wyssan's Wildform), the BAFM's unit can greatly assist the BAFM in making them Unbreakable.

Tactical and battlefield value
Ultimately, the real value of Show No Weakness is its effect on your opponent. If your opponent has a deathstar unit, and the presence of the BAFM changes how they use that deathstar, you have effectively won an important battle in the movement war. If they still use it as intended, the BAFM’s unit (preferably Corsairs or Bleakswords, from a survivability perspective) can be one of the most effective tarpits our army has to offer, without needing to rely on Steadfast or Stubborn models.

The BAFM with a supporting unit is expensive enough to warrant a charge from a deathstar, particularly if it can get a flank charge off – in which case, the BAFM can Make Way! to the fighting rank and pick off a character to trigger Show No Weakness relatively easily. The same holds true for reasonably-sized units of heavy cavalry, as long as the BAFM can survive the initial impact.

Show No Weakness does not have to be used defensively, although it’s brilliant for that too. The mere threat of an Unbreakable unit may cause your opponent to refuse a challenge, stacking the odds in favour of the BAFM and his unit. Unbreakable is a moot point if you win combat, of course - but having an option each way is fairly handy.

Finally, Show No Weakness is a great way of preventing overrunning. The BAFM’s unit may not win the fight, but if you can trigger Show No Weakness, it won’t go anywhere, and the enemy unit will be in position for flank charges, assaults from augmented Dark Elves, and hexes to put them in their rightful place beneath your army’s heel.

Supporting the BAFM:
Unit Support:

The BAFM benefits greatly from support just like any other Dark Elf unit. I’ll keep this part brief because most of the same support tactics used for other units work equally well here, but there are a few specific support options to mention.

The Bloodwrack Shrine could be included in the BAFM’s unit, but that has the effect of adding 175 points to a potential throwaway unit with little gain that can’t be obtained by having the Shrine within 6”. The Shrine can pick off or weaken chaff, either with the Bloodwrack Stare or by charging it, and allowing the BAFM to move into position to block a deathstar’s advance. A flanking Hydra might also be useful, for much the same reasons (particularly with the Flaming Breath upgrade).

A flanking Kharibdyss would be an excellent option, particularly if it’s kept within the Inspiring Presence/Hold Your Ground radius or at least 6” from your BAFM’s unit. The combination of Terror and Abyssal Howl will make subsequent survival and killing your opponent’s characters (or convincing them not to step up to a challenge) easier. If you use the BAFM aggressively, a combined charge can render your opponents severely weakened even before a single attack has been made.

You might be outmanoeuvred by an opponent, to the point that supporting units are unable to help. You might have too tough a nut to crack with limited support. This happens, sure, but any Dark Elf general worth their salt knows that all the components of our army must work together to be most effective. Deathstar units require deathstar responses, and if you don’t have them in your list, the best you can do is limit the damage by sacrificing something that doesn’t matter too much. This might be the BAFM or another unit – sometimes, you have to cut bait, but sometimes, the BAFM and his unit will be able to hold the threat in place long enough for you to respond to it decisively.

Spell Support:
Maximising the value of the BAFM requires the right spells to be available. I’m not advocating building the army around this guy, merely noting that the right spell at the right time makes him a lot easier to use, particularly with some spells that might otherwise be undervalued.

It’s a fair criticism to say that, if the BAFM needs support to be useful, he’s even worse than initially claimed. To this, I would respond by saying that pretty much everything in the Dark Elf army works better with support, and it’s this synergy that makes the army both difficult and rewarding to use and to play against. Furthermore, there will be times when the BAFM can do his job without help.

Useful augments for the BAFM and/or his unit:
• Fire – #2, but it’s limited against anything that isn’t Ethereal, Flammable or Regenerating.
• Beasts – #2 and #5, plus the signature spell. Savage Beast of Horros has the drawback of a short range (12”), but +3S and +3A is brutal on a character-killing BAFM.
• Metal - #2, but probably less useful even than Fire #2 unless you lose Always Strikes First for some reason.
• Light - #1, #2, #3 and #6 are all useful to varying degrees, although #3 (Light of Battle) defeats the purpose of having Show No Weakness. Pha’s Protection is particularly helpful, as it effectively gives your unit the Mark of Nurgle plus protection from shooting.
• Life - #2 is really about the only useful spell, unless the caster is in the same unit (which, for a potentially sacrificial unit, is not really desirable). Still, it’s handy to have a Life mage nearby to put wounds back on the BAFM.
• Heavens – Nothing, really – #1 effectively only allows rerolls of armour saves unless your opponent has Always Strikes First and isn’t a High Elf.
• Shadow – Mindrazor, obviously.
• Death - #1 could be useful to prevent any risk of flubbing a Fear or Terror test, particularly in conjunction with the use of #4 against the enemy unit.
• Dark – +1S from Power of Darkness would be nice, but the caster needs to be in the same unit, so the comment about Life’s signature spell applies equally here.

Useful hexes and similar spells to throw against the BAFM’s unit’s target:
• Fire and Life have none, although they can be useful in clearing chaff.
• Beasts – #4 is excellent – penalties to hit for your opponent (which stacks with the Lore of Heavens signature spell), as well as a 1-in-3 chance for each model to take a wound if the enemy unit moves at all.
• Metal – #1 and #5 are useful to make killing heavily-armoured targets easier, but Word of Pain outshines #5 substantially and can be guaranteed.
• Light – #4 isn’t great against the intended tarpit target, but can be brilliant against any chaff being sent to disrupt your strategy.
• Heavens – #3 is excellent – Poisoned Attacks and Killing Blows become very hard to use against the BAFM, while penalties to armour saves become even more effective when your opponent is re-rolling any 6s. #5 can also be useful to dictate movement around an area, while #6 might be helpful to clear chaff and double-flee redirectors.
• Shadow – #2, #3 and the signature spell.
• Death – #3 and #4, particularly since we can guarantee we’ll get Soulblight (and almost guarantee getting to cast it) by using Warlocks.
• Dark – Word of Pain is brilliant. Shroud of Despair can be useful in forcing failed Fear tests, but will require additional support from other Dark Elf units such as the Bloodwrack Shrine and the Kharibdyss.

One other point to make about the Lore of Shadow – the Lore Attribute can be useful in relocating the BAFM to where he is needed, and to get your Sorceresses out of a tight spot. If nothing else, I’d rather sacrifice the BAFM than a level 4 Sorceress, and if they’re both on foot, any Shadow spell can get your Sorceress out of a tight spot and the BAFM into a battle which he can either win or tie up for a turn or two.

The Cauldron of Blood can give the BAFM’s unit Frenzy for a turn, but with a short range. One extra attack is helpful, as is the immunity to psychology, but be careful that it doesn’t cause the unit to Berserk Charge on its next turn. If you’re using the BAFM as a tarpit unit which is likely to lose combat anyway, it’s not going to be a problem at all, and it's a free Attack to help kill a character model or win a challenge with.

Potential BAFM Builds:
The Black Amulet would be ideal, but sadly, the BAFM is limited to 50 points of magic items. Within those limits, here are a few ideas for building the BAFM to be reasonably effective.
1. “The Breath Monster” – Black Dragon Egg. 50 points for one turn with S6 T6 and a S2 breath weapon may seem pricey, but given the tactical merits of Show No Weakness, it may be all you need. Also, remember that the breath weapon is used at the model’s own Initiative in close combat, so it’s likely that you can throw out an extra 2d6 hits with this item in a challenge
2. “The Tank” – Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, with 20 points left over that could go on a Potion of Toughness, a Potion of Strength or a magic weapon. 2+ save, rerollable, with a 6++ unless you buy him a magic weapon. He’ll be useful when your opponent is eager to (or has no choice but to) accept a challenge, or if you combine it with hexes on an opponent.
3. “One Hit Wonder” – Potion of Strength, with 30 points left over to spend on the Sword of Anti-Heroes (to take on death stars), the Helm of Discord (useful in conjunction with Leadership debuffs) or Glittering Scales and a 5-point item like the Luckstone or Pigeon Plucker Pendant (for surviving any retribution). 4 Attacks at S7 with rerolls to hit and to wound should put most non-monstrous enemy characters into the ground unless they have a decent Ward save.
4. “The Sledge” – Ogre Blade, Enchanted Shield (or Charmed Shield), Dragonbane Gem or Pigeon Plucker Pendant (if expecting fliers). 3 attacks at S6, most likely with rerolls to hit and to wound, a 2+ AS (or 3+ with a 2++ against the first hit received), and either a 2+ fire ward or a 5+ ward against flying enemies.
5. “Wedge Antilles” (anti-deathstar) – Sword of Anti-Heroes, Enchanted Shield and The Other Trickster’s Shard. 2+ AS, bonus Attacks and Strength for every enemy character in contact with his unit, and forcing the enemy to reroll Ward saves (on top of ASF and Murderous Prowess rerolls) means that the BAFM is likely to both knock over an enemy character (even in a challenge) and survive a turn of combat.
6. “The Hunter” – Cloak of Twilight. Admittedly, it goes better on other characters, but combined with good magical support, this build can knock over even Ogres, Chaos Lords or Vampires (if they don’t have Quickblood) in the first round of combat – with a little luck, of course.
7. “The Wall” – Enchanted Shield and Talisman of Preservation. Pretty standard, 2+/4++ saves, can’t actually kill anything, but should survive challenges for more than one turn (keeping the unit Unbreakable for the entire time, even if it’s entirely wiped out).

Conclusions:
The BAFM is not as useless as most of us have written him off to be. Sure, he costs too much. He has relatively low stats for a Lord choice. He has a silly-looking model with a sword for a peg-leg. It’s true that the BAFM won’t be as flexible as a Dreadlord, or even a Master, but to think of him in that way is to approach his value the wrong way. We have precious few options in our current army book (other than magic) to keep deathstars in check, or to pull them out of position, or even to reliably anchor a point on the battlefield without using T3 5+ AS Black Guard or a large block of Core troops (that aren’t Witch Elves). While the BAFM is not optimal, it does have its uses, and hopefully this article encourages a few more Druchii generals to bring one to the field.
Last edited by Haagrum on Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by CreativeName »

Enjoyed reading it. Though I think the best remedy for this is to have stated the following instead: If he issues a challenge and no character accepts then you get unbreakable. If he issues a challenge and a character accepts and the BAFM lives through it then you get unbreakable. If you you issue a challenge and get smacked down then you don't. Makes sense and not broken.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Vampire1812 »

Interesting ideas. I would rather just buy Fellheart. Honestly its just a terrible character design. I do thank you for your incite however.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Dalamar »

If I were ever to field one, I'd give him Helm of Discord (a chance of not being attacked at all), Shrieking Blade (a chance of being hit on 5+) and a Luckstone (he'd have 2+ save so a cheap reroll isn't bad)

That gives enemies in contact with him two leadership tests (at -1 if you have the shrine in the unit) and with potential shroud of despair, the second test (more important one) would possibly be taken on -2 (or even worse if you set up a good chain of ld tests)

With that said, the same can be achieved with a dreadlord who might not be unbreakable, but actually stands a chance against enemy lords (with just black amulet). Who needs unbreakable if you are planning to win combat?

Though a funny use of the captain could be to build him as protected as possible, and charge him out solo against a big unit of chaos warriors with no heroes in them but a champion. And hold them up for as long as possible.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Trax »

I just don't have a use for a (overly expensive) character that *might* make a unit of mine unbreakable - or outright fails to do so and gets run over since he didn't contribute in a way that his point cost makes us belief. If I want some part of my army not do budge, I don't want to take such risks, I'd just put 40 swords/spears over there and be done with it (instead of 20 warriors+BAFM).

But I appreciate your writeup nonetheless - its just that there are too many ifs and conditions and I don't see him affecting my opponents play as much as a simple DL (or a unit worth his points) could do it.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Haagrum »

Thanks for the comments.

I realise that there's other ways to achieve much the same goals as the BAFM can offer - and I particularly like the idea of sending a tank version off against a Warriors of Chaos army to hold a unit in place for as long as possible. I just wanted to defend what everyone is already writing off as a lost cause by focusing on what effect the BAFM has on your opponent's strategy. ;) At the very least, it may mean a little more diversity in lists or in army building concepts...

...or a belated army book revision that makes the Fleetmaster about 50 points cheaper and a Hero choice. Seriously, Matt Ward, would a 100pts magic items allowance, +1 WS and +1 Initiative have been too much to ask?

And, yes, Lokhir does the Fleetmaster's job better than the Fleetmaster against everything except heavy armour.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Dalamar »

Lokhir is how all fleetmasters should be.

Seriously, just giving fleetmasters ability for Daring Leap would make them more useful (they would be challenged out by champions just to protect their precious wizards).
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Sulla »

Master with heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, great weapon, stubborn crown and dragonhelm... not sure why I would ever use a lord choice to do something less reliable.

Or if you are using a lvl4 shadow (or multiple warlock units), take Lokhir instead. 2+ armour and regen plus rerolled wounds make him better than the fleetmaster for not much more points.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Calisson »

Thanks for a thorough analysis.
Good point is that it helps to understand Lokhir's added value, too.

I might be interested in trying this character facing a Bretonnian's lance.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Forbrannir »

If it's unbreakable you're after take banner of Naggeroth(nd) on a master with pretty basic kit. That'd do the same thing better and do about the same damage for more or less the same amount of points and we all know theirs better stuff to be taking than that.

Thanks for trying to get a different perspective on the BAFM but no matter which way you spin it he's still more points than a dread lord and not nearly as good. And his model looks really stupid (it has vibrant purple trousers. What dark elf gets up in the morning and thinks "definable time to bring back Saturday night fever.")? ;)
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Haagrum »

Daring Leap would be a fine addition, Dalamar - it'd really force your opponent to consider their engagements, pull wizards out of units, and otherwise disrupt their plans if they knew their choice was between an unbreakable tarpit and keeping their spellcasters alive. :)

Calisson - I hadn't considered the value against Bretonnians specifically, because I haven't played against them in years, but I always hated the lance formation. Nice to see we have a (situational) counter. :) Would be very interested to hear how it goes, if you try the BAFM out against them.

Forbrannir wrote:If it's unbreakable you're after take banner of Naggeroth(nd) on a master with pretty basic kit. That'd do the same thing better and do about the same damage for more or less the same amount of points and we all know theirs better stuff to be taking than that.

Thanks for trying to get a different perspective on the BAFM but no matter which way you spin it he's still more points than a dread lord and not nearly as good. And his model looks really stupid (it has vibrant purple trousers. What dark elf gets up in the morning and thinks "definable time to bring back Saturday night fever.")? ;)

I just about fell off my chair reading the second paragraph, thanks Forbrannir. !lol!

It's not just about Unbreakable. The BAFM isn't Dreadlord-quality, but he can be kitted out to do a few things reasonably well, and he can force your opponent to second-guess their plan. The psychological play in relation to Show No Weakness is probably the best thing about that rule, IMHO.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Layne »

It's not his purple pants that are his problem, it's the ground pressure issues caused by his sword leg. He could only be more foolishly equipped if his shoe was a rollerskate.

It's pretty clear that the tank in minimum unit is the only build and tactic for this guy.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Forbrannir »

Yeah, I have a lovely image of him trying to walk his deck with a bit of poise but failing completely because his leg gets stuck every other stride. And have you noticed how it starts above the knee? Has he got to sway his entire pelvis to move that leg or does he get someone else to move it for him? ;)

Then again, the amount of dread lords that will be taking a sea dragon cloak, they really could make a model for it.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by T.D. »

I was actually thinking of writing a joke thread on this topic!

But I salute you for the time and effort you have put into this post.

I'm also a fan of novel and unexpected builds and strategies...but I can't support you on this one. To me the design teams - both rules and model - dropped the ball with this guy.

I was looking forward to the Fleetmaster after seeing the HE Sea Helm and his special ability. But the MI restrictions and points cost have crippled this character choice. I hold out some faint hope that there was a misprint in the AB, and he is actually supposed to have up to 150 points of magic items (representing his 'orde of high seas booty!). Then, his special rules and playability would make some sense (if not the sword leg).

Like many, I enjoy the idea of Corsairs and lists to the pirate theme ...but I'll be using Lokhir, Dreadlords and the High Beastmaster to represent any Corsair characters I play in such lists.

= one less sale for GW.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Vampire1812 »

That leg imagine if he had a move called the death blossom. Place a small round template over a unit in base to base contact. This represents the Fleetmaster busting out a 1980's style back spin. His sword leg and fabulous purple pants leading the way. Ever model under the template takes a ... Oh who cares stupid model stupid rules.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Amarel »

T.D. wrote:I hold out some faint hope that there was a misprint in the AB, and he is actually supposed to have up to 150 points of magic items (representing his 'orde of high seas booty!). Then, his special rules and playability would make some sense (if not the sword leg).

I wondered if he was supposed to be 15 pts more than a Master, rather than 15 pts more than a Dreadlord. If he was 85pts he'd get some use.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Dalamar »

If he was a hero, and priced like one, he'd get some use. Lokhir is a hero, he's a damn black ark captain as well. Why is a generic character higher than a special one? No idea.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by T.D. »

Vampire1812 wrote:That leg imagine if he had a move called the death blossom. Place a small round template over a unit in base to base contact. This represents the Fleetmaster busting out a 1980's style back spin. His sword leg and fabulous purple pants leading the way. Ever model under the template takes a ... Oh who cares stupid model stupid rules.


Reminds me of The Bride versus The Crazy 88 in Kill Bill !lol!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jhTRqgTZSM&feature=player_detailpage#t=281
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by T.D. »

@ Amarel, Dalamar

Agree!
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by No Saves »

Unit entries like this really confuse me. Confuse and worry me, actually, because they make you think 'only someone who has never played a game of warhammer could come up with these rules for these points'. It's not like Empire State Troops "oh should they be able point cheaper, were they they factoring in unguaranteed buffs into their cost, grumble grumble"... This Fleetmaster is just plain WRONG! The Master stats for more than a Dreadlord, the random 50 points item allowance (is this the only Lord to not be allowed 100 points?), the useless special rule that will be able to do something maybe 1 game in 10 (if you're lucky)... It's easy to not care since the book on the whole is great and we'll do just peachy without this little naval nightmare, but any way you look at it the Fleetmaster is just absurd!
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by KhorneOnTheKhob »

I don't mind the model. The sword leg is a pretty cool visual IMHO, it's just that as a prosthetic limb, it would be impractical in every possible way. I probably won't use the BAFM, but I'm planning to center my army around a horde of Corsairs, so I might buy the model and just use it as a Dreadlord. Even after reading this well-thought out post (kudos Haagrum!), I'm not convinced that this is a worthwhile option. I simply don't understand why they would charge more for a Lord that has a Hero's statline and limitations. Especially since SNW only applies for one turn. Maybe if it was for the duration of the combat it might be a little more worthwhile.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Calisson »

T.D. wrote:I was actually thinking of writing a joke thread on this topic!
Please do! :D
T.D. wrote:= one less sale for GW.
I will buy the model, for sure.

This article may be read not as a pledge to take the BAFM, but rather, if someone decides to take an admiral, then what can be done with him?
Also, think about the shame for your opponent if he is beaten by an army led by a Fleetmaster?
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by T.D. »

Calisson wrote: Please do! :D


The creation of this thread means that the moment has gone, alas!

Calisson wrote:
This article may be read not as a pledge to take the BAFM, but rather, if someone decides to take an admiral, then what can be done with him?


Agree. I'd like to see it Draich'ed as a resource/feedback thread for those who want to run the BAFM :)
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Phierlihy »

I think others have debunked the premise of this thread sufficiently that I don't need to add to it. I will say the Fleetmaster is bad enough that I suspect he is an obvious error. I mean, I'd totally field him for my Corsair-themed army! But sadly I think he's in strong competition for the worst character choice in any Warhammer army book. My personal thought is he is going to get an immediate errata. It's almost like they made him as a Master, realized they needed to add a new Lord at the last minute, and only made half the changes. And somehow it all slipped past the editorial staff. Having the named character a hero (who's so much better!) but the generic choice a lord makes little sense, I think he's the only Lord choice ever to only get access to 50 points of magic items so that strikes me as an oversight, and having the stats of a hero, worse equipment than a hero but obviously costing more than a Lord makes no sense at all. The entire idea is flawed after all - a T3 ST4 model with a 4+ save isn't going to win a challenge in the first place let alone survive against anything but a core-choice unit champion...

I'm honestly expecting an errata.
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Re: In defence of the Black Ark Fleetmaster

Post by Haagrum »

Agreed with the above comments about the "Saturday Night Fever Special" attack for the BAFM. It could even make sense without the sword-leg, given the background fluff about how Corsairs fight. :)

Phierlihy, I agree that the BAFM is probably the victim of editing errors, and that there will be FAQ changes to the Lord version. However, given such an option as we have now, a better question (IMHO) is "how can one make use of something that has been dismissed as useless?" Anyone can tool up a Dreadlord to win fights or build a death star list; finding any way to use the BAFM that even comes close to justifying his price tag is quite another. I'd ask you to instead re-read the article and see if you can offer any other ways that the BAFM might be used, other than for fluff reasons.
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