Warlock extra ranks

[Gidean]

I noticed the wording of 'Cursed Coven' doesn't require the extra ranks have to be warlock models. So if you are using Warlocks as a character bus...should be pretty easy to maintain that +3 to cast. What do you think? +5 to cast makes getting those soulblights off pretty easy.

[Sulla]

If you want to deathstar, I guess.

[Dalamar]

If you want a fragile deathstar, sure.

[Gidean]

If you want a fragile deathstar, sure.

Fragile? How so? All the characters in the front rank will be 1+ armor. All the Warlocks are 4+ ward.

[Sulla]

If you want a fragile deathstar, sure.

Fragile? How so? All the characters in the front rank will be 1+ armor. All the Warlocks are 4+ ward.

I agree. 6+/4++ is not fragile. Large footprint makes it largely resistant to the wrecker of elven deathstars; the s5 template. Fragility is not the warlockstar's weakness. Cost and a huge footprint is, and even the cost isn't that great compared to, say phoenix guard or warriors of chaos with a mark and halberd.

That kind of gamestyle is not my cup of tea though.

[T.D.]

I noticed the wording of 'Cursed Coven' doesn't require the extra ranks have to be warlock models. So if you are using Warlocks as a character bus...should be pretty easy to maintain that +3 to cast. What do you think? +5 to cast makes getting those soulblights off pretty easy.

I think it is an idea worth exploring.

[Dalamar]

Well, it's not something I would take to a tournament and tournaments are really the best measure of a viability of a choice. At a tournament you will get hit by dwellers and a third of the unit is gone, final transmutation and the same. Slaanesh DP and you're toast.

[Gidean]

Well, it's not something I would take to a tournament and tournaments are really the best measure of a viability of a choice. At a tournament you will get hit by dwellers and a third of the unit is gone, final transmutation and the same. Slaanesh DP and you're toast.

Never said the unit was invincible Dal. But in our Meta (Tournaments included), Deathstars are the norm. I didn't come up with this idea. I shamelessly stole it from Druchiilad. But the more I look at it the more I am in love with it. You essentially have 5-6 characters with 1+ armor saves and lances in the front rank. That's 16-19 str 6 attacks on the charge (asf) from them alone. Power of Darkness or Wyssan's and you are up to str 7. The Warlocks have 2+ ward saves versus direct damage/magic missile attacks and miscast damage. This of course assume the SS is safely tucked into the second rank with her Ring of Hotek. This unit is essentially a World Dragon Banner - Dragon Prince Deathstar! See...anything the Asur can do, we can do better.

Hit on the flank...no problem. Those 5 - 6 characters make way giving the enemy a 1+ armor save opponent. Roll a miscast on the Warlocks' spell and lose a D3..no problem, you live on a 2+ ward. SS miscasts and puts a str 10 on everyone touching her...no problem. Warlocks save on 2+, Noble saves on a 2+, BsB saves on a 2+ and other characters save on 4+.

Bottom line...this unit is NOT fragile. Dwellers will be dispelled more frequently than not.

[No Saves]

How are you getting all these 2+ saves vs Miscast damage? And 2+ saves vs the Miscast S10 template? Please don't tell me you're using magic resistance to improve your 4++ when you take damage from the miscast. That isn't allowed!

[Gidean]

How are you getting all these 2+ saves vs Miscast damage? And 2+ saves vs the Miscast S10 template? Please don't tell me you're using magic resistance to improve your 4++ when you take damage from the miscast. That isn't allowed!

Um...yes it is allowed. MR improves ward saves. FAQ says miscast damage IS magical damage. p.72 BRB

[Phierlihy]

Magical damage does not equal damage from spells. MR does nothing against getting stabbed with a magical sword. And a miscast is not a spell. Technically it's what happens AFTER the spell...

[Gidean]

Magical damage does not equal damage from spells. MR does nothing against getting stabbed with a magical sword. And a miscast is not a spell. Technically it's what happens AFTER the spell...

Thanks. Double checked the FAQ and you are correct.

Q: Is damage caused by a miscast counted as a spell? Can a model
with Magic Resistance add it to its ward save against it? (p34)
A: No to both questions.

Still...4+ wards aren't anything to sneeze at.

[Omnichron]

The lockstar is viable as it has a lot of mobility, 4+ ward against most things and 2++ against a lot of magic when you add MR to it. It's a better choice of deathstar than the cold ones in some ways, even though you might be more dependent on shielding from normal shooting with this star.

That being said, I am not the biggest fan of deathstars and would most likely go with a shadestar again if I was ever to go for such things. The idea of a lockstar isn't that bad imo, even though I would have to test it a lot before I'd ever put it into a tournament army.

[Dalamar]

Deathstars are defined by their durability and ability to dish out damage.

Something that loses half its models to a good salvo of low strength shooting is not a deathstar, at least not in my book.

[Gidean]

Deathstars are defined by their durability and ability to dish out damage.

Something that loses half its models to a good salvo of low strength shooting is not a deathstar, at least not in my book.

Druchiilad's list had somewhere like 5 units of 5 Darkriders with repeater crossbows as well. Considering the whole army can vanguard, they can put themselves in great position for counter-shooting the enemy's low strength salvo troops. A dead High Elf, etc. cannot shoot anything.

The main problem with the list (besides costing about $350-385 for the models) is that it auto-loses Watch Tower. But Watch Tower is not used in my Tournament Meta.

[Dragon9]

Still...4+ wards aren't anything to sneeze at.

It is... with my propensity to roll 3 or less when I need a 4+.

[Gidean]

Still...4+ wards aren't anything to sneeze at.

It is... with my propensity to roll 3 or less when I need a 4+.

I have that same disease. It's why I don't play 40K and Space Marines.

[Nostromo]

Interesting idea you've picked up there - perhaps something that might get picked up in a future FAQ though? I'm not a death star fan either, but it might be worth playing around with it. Game to do a few battle reports and give your fellow nobles and highborns some instruction on how it runs?

[Gidean]

Interesting idea you've picked up there - perhaps something that might get picked up in a future FAQ though? I'm not a death star fan either, but it might be worth playing around with it. Game to do a few battle reports and give your fellow nobles and highborns some instruction on how it runs?

I play maybe once a month. So not likely a few...but I'll let you know after Nov. 23.

[Vulcan]

Magical damage does not equal damage from spells. MR does nothing against getting stabbed with a magical sword. And a miscast is not a spell. Technically it's what happens AFTER the spell...

Thanks. Double checked the FAQ and you are correct.

Q: Is damage caused by a miscast counted as a spell? Can a model
with Magic Resistance add it to its ward save against it? (p34)
A: No to both questions.

Still...4+ wards aren't anything to sneeze at.

... then how did the BotWD get to apply against miscast damage?

[Dalamar]

BotWD gives 2+ ward save against magical attacks.

Magic Resistance (and Cloak of Twilight) give ward saves against spells

All spells that do damage have are magical attacks, but there are many examples of magical attacks beyond spells (miscasts, magic weapons, medusa stare, entire demon army are a few examples)

[Gidean]

BotWD gives 2+ ward save against magical attacks.

Magic Resistance (and Cloak of Twilight) give ward saves against spells

All spells that do damage have are magical attacks, but there are many examples of magical attacks beyond spells (miscasts, magic weapons, medusa stare, entire demon army are a few examples)

Yep. Dal preaches it right. I forgot the difference until I went back to the FAQ. All spells are magical. But not all magical damage are spells.

p.s. Bought 50 brand new Warlocks/Dark Riders yesterday.

[Skipper]

I'm very interessted in this kind of army! Maybe you could comment on the play style of the warlock star. For example, would you place it last, on a flank. Maybe give all the characters bracees of repeater pistols and shoot away the first turn? always moving in the dead angles of big blocks? concentrating on chaffs while preserving a lot of points?

[marcopollo]

I think the that the 'lockstar with character should have RXB and not RHB (brace). You've got fast cav to allow full movement and shooting even with RXB's. So you can sit back, pick your spots and with high BS on your masters, hit still on 2's with -1AP. Then doombolt to boot. But if you have RHB you have to get alot closer and you don't really benefit from the "thrown weapon" aspect because of fast cav rules and shooting. For me, it was a close call until I factored in the -1 AP and the footprint of the unit making short range shooting much more tricky by leaving a long exposed flank in close proximity of counter charges.

[Gidean]

I'm very interessted in this kind of army! Maybe you could comment on the play style of the warlock star. For example, would you place it last, on a flank. Maybe give all the characters bracees of repeater pistols and shoot away the first turn? always moving in the dead angles of big blocks? concentrating on chaffs while preserving a lot of points?

I will be trying this list on Nov. 23. I expect a lot of trial and error...mostly error. But it should be fun. With the whole army being able to vanguard and even shifting to the side 12 inches counting as vanguard move...I do not think you have to be too worried about exact deployment.