Will we still include Harpies?

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Tomcowlin
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Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Tomcowlin »

Will anyone still be including harpies in their armies?

Why we will include them?
- fast and flying
- skirmishing
- cheap

Why will we not?
- they are a special choice (although they didn't count towards our core before)
- we'll probably have some chaff in our core anyway (dark riders or some 10 man infantry units)
- we can pay 5 points more for other units which could be chaff but have more utility

It seems that considering the above we won't be taking harpies anymore in competitive lists?

Please contribute your ideas and I can add to this list, which should be useful.
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Dalamar
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Dalamar »

The short answer to this is... yes.

Harpies still offer utility that none of our other units does which is flying and expendable. In my last game a single unit proved invaluable

We just can't spam them anymore like we used to and need to hold them back until its their turn to do their job. If we keep them as screen... well I think corsairs make for a far better screen these days.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Datalink7 »

Dalamar has been taking harpies to good success in his list, and I intend to take a group of 5 when I start playing again this weekend.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Dangerous Beans »

I shall certainly continue to use harpies. As a long standing champion of the Dark Riders I still regard harpies to be of great use in our armies although their points increase compared to other unit costs (many of which went down) simply makes them less of an auto-take as they used to be in the past and nor can they can spammed. This requirement of finesse on their use is a welcome addition in my mind as it will require true skill and cunning to make the most out of them.

How do you make the most out of them? Timing and placement.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by mypantsarefree13 »

On the fence about them due to the same reasons the OP stated. So far haven't used them and haven't felt the loss of not having them. After I spend points on Dark Riders, Warlocks, and Shades I feel I should start spending points on combat blocks ;)
And I can't convince myself to substitute in harpies instead of one of the others.

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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Cold73 »

I still use harpies, the flying makes them very very good. Placing them behind a unit or a building.... And if you fail a crucial charge...your harpies are often fast enough to still land in an angle in front of the enemy unit.

One thing I don;t know the answer to. Flying units can charge over other units. But can they also charge over another flying unit?
I don't see any rules for this...so I assume they can.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Datalink7 »

One nice advantage of harpies is that they can help prevent an overrun from your Witch Elves.

Somebody places some chaff in front of your witch elves so that you'll get a forced overrun and expose a flank? Charge, then place the harpies so your Witch Elves will overrun into them, halting their advance. It is easy enough to charge the harpies away the following turn to get them out of the way if your Witch Elves need to charge.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Setomidor »

So far I have not used them at all but I might try a unit in the future. For only 5 points more you get 5 Dark Riders or 5 Shades instead, both of which are generally a better pick but sometimes I have been missing a flying redirector. I would never bring more than one unit, and I would play them extremely defensively to make sure they survive until their 30 seconds of glory (i.e. being trampled to death for the greater good).

I've also considered bringing a lightly kitted out Master on Pegasus for the occasion, but then he's 130+ points which is considerably more than Harpies.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Dirty Mac »

Cold73 wrote:I still use harpies, the flying makes them very very good. Placing them behind a unit or a building.... And if you fail a crucial charge...your harpies are often fast enough to still land in an angle in front of the enemy unit.

One thing I don;t know the answer to. Flying units can charge over other units. But can they also charge over another flying unit?
I don't see any rules for this...so I assume they can.


I am pretty sure that flying units start and end their turn on the ground, so It wouldn't be a problem to fly over them.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Calisson »

Confirmed.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Maesltrom »

Doubt I will. I think shades, dark riders and fast masters can do pretty much everything that harpies can do but with more utility
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Datalink7 »

I used Harpies in a game today and they did alright. It was nice to have that fly movement and extra 2" over the dark riders, and be a little cheaper, for the purpose that they were used for.

I wanted a unit to place 1" in front of an enemy unit to prevent them advancing. Harpies filled the role for only 75 points vs my Dark Riders which I run at 110 points. Plus the extra 2" and fly actually helped in this regard.

They were used to block a Chaos Chariot. Now amazingly, they also took the charge from the chariot, only took two wounds total (including from impact hits), and held on their leadership 3. But I don't really attribute that to them being harpies, just spectacular dice rolling (both bad and good). But it was awesome :D
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Vulcan »

Sometimes you've GOT to prevent that cannon from firing that one crucial turn, and the only way to get a unit into combat with it is with a flyer... but he didn't leave enough room in front for a 40x40 base to fit. At that point, harpies are the only choice.

They do one thing that no other DE chaff unit can: Fly. Sometimes that's all that's needed to justify their minimal cost.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by mypantsarefree13 »

Vulcan wrote:Sometimes you've GOT to prevent that cannon from firing that one crucial turn, and the only way to get a unit into combat with it is with a flyer... but he didn't leave enough room in front for a 40x40 base to fit. At that point, harpies are the only choice.

They do one thing that no other DE chaff unit can: Fly. Sometimes that's all that's needed to justify their minimal cost.


Due to this post I'll give them another try. Does anyone have some better modeling ideas for harpies instead of the GW ones? I find them very ugly.

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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Dalamar »

Gamezone harpies are very nice. (Which can't be said about all of their models)
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Underway »

mypantsarefree13 wrote:
Vulcan wrote:Sometimes you've GOT to prevent that cannon from firing that one crucial turn, and the only way to get a unit into combat with it is with a flyer... but he didn't leave enough room in front for a 40x40 base to fit. At that point, harpies are the only choice.

They do one thing that no other DE chaff unit can: Fly. Sometimes that's all that's needed to justify their minimal cost.


Due to this post I'll give them another try. Does anyone have some better modeling ideas for harpies instead of the GW ones? I find them very ugly.

-mypantsarefree13


I use old metal deamonettes with wings, look spectacular. The new plastic ones with gargoyle wings (tyranid line) look good too.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-297qUJODt4c/T ... s%2B02.jpg

Or the ghouls with wings version:

http://migraine.obnom.org/pix/boc/beast ... 25-640.jpg

Also I have found that miniature dragon models can suffice for harpies as well. Adds a slightly different element to the army. This is what I'm currently looking at for my new dark elf raiding fleet, as getting dreadfleet bits are super cheep.

http://www.sodemons.com/rhdragons/13man ... 425-01.jpg
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Marchosias »

Or you can start with Raging Heroes Preying Mantis and add wings of your choice.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by T.D. »

Vulcan wrote:Sometimes you've GOT to prevent that cannon from firing that one crucial turn, and the only way to get a unit into combat with it is with a flyer... but he didn't leave enough room in front for a 40x40 base to fit. At that point, harpies are the only choice.

They do one thing that no other DE chaff unit can: Fly. Sometimes that's all that's needed to justify their minimal cost.


+1!

They are our only non character unit that can threaten well castled warmachines reliably by turn 2. They are also our best redirector.

Despite the nerf and the improvement to DR I still want at least one unit in my lists.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Ampao »

I used Juan Diaz Daemonettes with ghoul arms and "Dark Jeebs' Wings". Granted the models are expensive, but almost the same price per model as the metal harpies GW has.

http://ampao.tumblr.com/search/harpies
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Dyvim tvar »

I may bring a single unit, but no more than that.

The points-cost increase of Harpies combined with the drop/improvement of Dark Riders means fewer Harpies for me.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Dalamar »

Yes, a single unit seems optimal nowadays. Nothing beats the ability to fly (not even improved dark riders) with an expendable unit. We just need to cough up extra 20 points.
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8th Edition army book W/D/L:
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by kaloomte »

I use the Julie Guthrie harpies from Reaper. You can paint them up Lustria-style for Dark Elves-Lizzie engagements (they are a little feathery), and as they're not technically dark elves you have a bit of freedom to play with different paint schemes from the rest of your army.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Vulcan »

I used a bunch of the Reaper succubi for my harpies. For a while I was using four units, and not a one of them were the same model - which is always nice for the units your opponent's going to be seeing the most of in the early stages of the game.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Ichiyo1821 »

I fit in a single unit of Harpies in my lists as well to help with the witchelf anti frenzy baiting and the general annoyance moves. Their smaller footprint is still invaluable againsts some armies.
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Re: Will we still include Harpies?

Post by Dalamar »

In my last list I took out harpies and 3rd bolt thrower to fit in a hydra. We'll see how it goes.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)

8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
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