Medusae are useful!

[Dalamar]

Ok... the subject line is meant to grab your attention, the rest of the post will be a bit of an exercise in statistics with an unknown result... so I might prove myself wrong which is always fun!

I have figured out an interesting way to use Medusae... though I haven't had a chance to actually do it yet (I thought of it after my last game yesterday). They make for great mage killers! (sacrificial of course) Their speed is higher than shades, though not as much as harpies or dark riders, but unlike harpies or dark riders, Medusa will be able to put all of its attacks on its designated target and not just one or two (wizards tend to hide in corners of units making it difficult for more than 1, maybe 2 models to contact them). Medusae are not characters either so they have an advantage over a peg master assassin (or an actual assassin) that they won't be stopped in their tracks by a champion. Unlike harpies, Medusae have ASF, Murderous Prowess and WS5 (which is big when fighting elf mages!)

So lets see a few typical mage killers. To give the units better odds, I'll make them have two models reach an enemy wizard (WS 3, T3, W2, no save, typical human)

Shades 2 hand weapons:
3.6 attacks hit
2.1 attacks wound
Dead wizard thanks to Murderous Prowess re-roll, but just barely.

Shades with GW:
1.8 attacks hit
1.75 attacks wound
Falling short

Harpies:
2 attacks hit
1 attack wounds
No re-rolls of any kind, harpies suck at this.

Dark Riders:
1.8 attacks hit
1.4 attacks wound after including murderous prowess... but also horses!
1 attack hits
0.5 attacks wound
For a total of 1.9 wounds... Close but not there, 2 HW shades still in the lead.

Medusa:
3.6 attacks hit
2.8 attacks wound
That's a dead wizard even before Murderous Prowess... and dead wizard lord if we get lucky... and possibly dead before Medusa even attacks due to avert your gaze attack (which could be combined with word of pain or mystifying miasma to kill even high (5-6) I models though it will take some luck to get the KB.

So... umm... Medusa wins. Solo charging a medusa into the front of an enemy unit protecting a level 2 mage? Lets do this! The sacrifice is likely to be worth it.
Also remember, if you happen to get medusa into a flank of typical core infantry:
4 Avert your gaze attacks:
1.3 empire guys dead
4 Medusa attacks
2.8 empire guys dead, rounding for 4 wounds in Medusa's favor
4 Return attacks (lets say these are halberdiers)
1 wound on medusa

Medusa:
4 wounds, flank, charge = 6CR
Empire:
1 wound, 3 ranks, banner = 5CR

Medusa wins on average O.o

[Dyvim tvar]

Very interesting. With Ld2 and Frenzy though, the trick is getting it to go where you want it to go.

[Dalamar]

That's not really an issue.

1) keep her close to the general
2) remember the trick of deploying your manticore facing backwards so it wouldn't do any silly turn 1 charges? Tread medusa the same and enforce strict control over its front arc until you're ready to move in.

Medusa can also work as a universal chaff clearer (harpies are very unreliable) and even potential monster threat (even sream tank will be worried). For 90 points that's a lot of versatility. The trick is to find what she can do best from game to game. In my last game against warriors of chaos it slithered towards a hellcannon (I1) managed to shoot it once but it warded the wounds, then I charged it (yay Ld2 Frenzy), did an extra wound from avert your gaze and one more with regular attacks.

[Brad]

How do those results compare when you factor in points spent per wound caused?

[Dalamar]

Minimum Shades with weapon upgrade - 90
Minimum Harpies - 75
Minimum Dark Riders with no gear - 80
Medusa - 90

Wounds per point:
Shades with 2HW - 0.023 wounds/point
Shades with GW - 0.019 wounds/point
Harpies - 0.013 wounds/point
Dark Riders - 0.024 wounds/point
Medusa - 0.031 wounds/point (not including Avert your Gaze)

That, coupled with the fact that it's not guaranteed to get two models in btb with a wizard in a corner keeps Medusa as a wizard assassin winner.

[Entreri bloodletter]

Very interesting post,

Since I love the model and now actually have one I think I might give it a try. Would you consider using two to insure that 1 makes it to combat? With only 3 T4 wounds it can be shot or magic missiled fairly easily, causing multiple panics in all likelihood. Yes you can screen it until it is ready but they really aren't all that hard to take out.

I think its definitely worth play testing, you should post results whenever you get to try it out.

[Calisson]

Marchosias used two medusas in his batreps vs Empire, WoC, WoC, TK, VC: Lost colony chronicle.
He is a beginner, but a creative one. In his experience, he learned to use Shades in small games, then experimented double Medusas and kept them.

[Thraundil]

I've actualy pondered including a single medusa in some of my lists. If the opponent wasted a cannon shot or a magic missile on her, oh well. Thats something else of value that aint gonna get shot. If he doesnt, well, its bound to cause at least a little hurt. Your calculations on her as a wizard killer shows this tremendeously! With supporting lvl 2's very rarely having any kind of ward, theres no way barring super bad rolls, that a medusa wont take one out.

Couple this with the fact medusae actually bring something to the table we otherwise risk lacking: armor ignore! Of course, at 90 points they are fairly steep, but. Its still a cheap drop, and at the same cost of 5 dark riders, I could definitely see them as an interesting and unexpected add to for example an ETC list where dark riders are heavily comped.

Remember a medusa also stomps! So she will actually perform a little bit better than you thought vs an empire flank

[Askador]

My Problem with the medusa is that She will be shot by some Common Bows. ;(

Harpys have the same problem. But Dark Riders can be still there after 20 shots.

[Thraundil]

My Problem with the medusa is that She will be shot by some Common Bows. ;(

Harpys have the same problem. But Dark Riders can be still there after 20 shots.

Cover her up with dark riders. 1) they block frenzy charges 2) they give her hard cover if they wanna shoot her.

[Dalamar]

And if someone's shooting at a medusa, they're not shooting at anything more important... she's still as effective with 1 wound as she is with 3

[Canadianguy]

I have to admit I just wrote her off seeing ld 2 and frenzied. My book isn't handy. She isn't a character so she has to go solo if not on shrine, correct?

[T.D.]

Correct.

[Dalamar]

Frenzy can be easily mitigated to be a nonfactor, ld2 makes it tricky if medusa loses combat but if you're planning right, you'll either win or plan to lose combat (flank charging a frenzied unit to pull it out of line maybe? You guarantee fleeing if you survive while other units could hold and ruin the plan )

I thinkxa medusa has a pretty good chance surviving a flank charge into skullcrushers (since shell be fighting only one and with WS5 only half attacks will hit) and drag them away.

[Gidean]

*tagged*

[Ampao]

Thanks Dalamar for shining some light into a beautiful model. might take one or two soon!

[Jolemai]

If by herself, what is her unit type?

I guess we can't have an Assassin roll with her?

[Dalamar]

Monstrous Infantry, so no.

But if she gets lucky she can stop cannonballs

[Calisson]

She can be joined by characters and "will of god" chariots.
She can be joined by an 'sass, even during deployment, as long as the 'sass is not hidden.
Medusa + 'sass, the whole unit would still get Ld2...

[Gidean]

She can be joined by characters and "will of god" chariots.
She can be joined by an 'sass, even during deployment, as long as the 'sass is not hidden.
Medusa + 'sass, the whole unit would still get Ld2...

Which would be a freaking waste! First panic test would see 190+ points fleeing with no chance of rally.

[Gidean]

I've actualy pondered including a single medusa in some of my lists. If the opponent wasted a cannon shot or a magic missile on her, oh well. Thats something else of value that aint gonna get shot. If he doesnt, well, its bound to cause at least a little hurt. Your calculations on her as a wizard killer shows this tremendeously! With supporting lvl 2's very rarely having any kind of ward, theres no way barring super bad rolls, that a medusa wont take one out.

She won't likely take out a Chaos Sorcerer. Their init is high enough to pass Avert your Gaze and her spear attacks won't negate their usual 4+ armor save. But I can see her being a good BSB assassin almost equally as well in certain armies. Like Orcs or Ogres maybe? Yes many players ward save their BSB but some don't. Like the ones who need that magical banner (Ogres being a prime example). It would be very situational because an Ogre BSB is likely going to be in rank two. Still there will occasionally be some opportunities. I would rather score a BSB than a sorcerer.

[Dalamar]

For a chaos sorc...
3 hits
1.75 wounds
Then comes the armor so not the best chance, but better than anything else!
I wouldn't try ogres, their heroes having 4 wounds in the first place

[dms505]

I don't think the matchups are quite the way i would do it if I were specifically going after a wizard. I wouldn't have a unit of 2 riders or shades and if I were going after a wizard like that why wouldn't you just stack them 2 ranks to make sure you kill the wizard? What would the numbers then be if you were 2 ranks of 2 able to attacks? And as someone mentioned the points difference is pretty big between 2 of those troops and the Medusa.

I'm fo sho not saying Medusas are bad. I haven't used them yet but I like the idea of them and I'm sure they can be useful and even powerful. But to get your points back you need to do some damage with her which may or may not be better served with another bolt thrower or 6 Execs. It's the other little aspects of her that can be interesting like the death stare in and out of combat that gives us choices.

[Dalamar]

You won't get more than two models in base contact with a wizard expect for the rarest situations (as in, your opponent didn't see the 5 shades on the flank of his 2deep unit of crossbows and didn't move the wizard to the other flank)
If you go narrow you will have a single supporting attack but only one model in contact for sure so multiple attack models lose out.

Now sure, the rest of the unit will attack targets other than wizard and most likely stand a better chance at winning the combat round, but not assassinating the wizard.

[Aurelius]

I was playing with the idea of using Medusae with Storm of Magic Cockatrice. It reminds me of using Gift of Chaos from 3rd Edition 40k CSMs by turning characters into spawns (in this case stone). When Finecast models were first released, I picked up a few of the characters from WFB and planned to paint them petrified...someday when I get the time.