How to deal with really big monsters

[TheSupremePatriarch]

Hey guys,

Don't know if any of you have been playing against anyone using monsters from the Storm of Magic or Monstrous Arcanum - but how would you go about dealing with them?

I was playing a doubles game yesterday, Empire and my DE against double VC. We ran a knight bus with 2 cannons and I had some DR, Warlocks, RXBs, SS and RBTs with PegMaster. We hardly did anything against 2 Terrorgheists, a Bonegrinder Giant, a Toad Dragon and then some smaller blocks of ghouls and skeletons. Looking back I think it would have been an idea to go for the Vamp and Necro holding the army up rather than the monsters, but if the Bonegrinder marches 20" across the board, you panic...

Our artillery did literally nothing - cannons misfiring or doing 1 wound, RBTs failing to wound. How would you take down larger monsters like these??

[Dalamar]

Test or die spells are really good against those.
Really big monsters often have low I so pit of shades and purple sun really mess them up.

[T.D.]

Peg + Lord + Cloak + Frostblade is another option ...for the gambler in you

But as Dalamar says, low I is often the achilles heel of such monstrosities, and magic the best way to capitalise.

But we also have other good anti-monster solutions in the form of turbo-frenzied Witch Elves and Executioners

[MangoPunch]

Peg + Lord + Cloak + Frostblade is another option ...for the gambler in you

Avg Wounds This build (before pegasus attacks) Deals to:
Big Scary Monster with No Saves: 7.1
Big Scary Monster with 4+ Scaly Skin: 4.7
Frostheart with 5+/5++ / gives ASL: 3.0

...So, pretty reasonable chance you can kill or break it.

[TheSupremePatriarch]

I wasn't able to get a Peg Lord plus my SS into 1000 pts - I went for the lvl 3 as I thought if I got Pit of Shades, which I did, would eliminate at least one monster...didn't happen, dispelled every time :/ My Pegmaster eventually ground down the Toad Dragon but not before the Empire Knights were wiped out.

Have any of you guys played any of the monsters from the Monstrous Arcanum before?? I think they're gonna be making more of an appearance now and other than magic I'm not really sure we have much of a defence

[T.D.]

Transformation of Kadon?

We might have to fight Monster with Monster

I haven't played against this new breed as of yet but I can remember the Herohammer days when if you didn't have the Daemon Slaying sword (+3S, d3 wounds) in your army you were screwed, basically.

[Vulcan]

Witches love monsters. Being frenzied, they don't worry about fear or Terror. And unless the monster has a good save, Poison guarantees they'll get plenty of wounds in.

Executioners are good for the Phoenix. They already have ASL and getting again does exactly nothing to them.

RXB fire can also do wonders weakening a monster before combat. Sure, it requires a 6 to wound. But you get a LOT of RXB shots.

When all else fails, S7 shot from a Scourgerunner Chariot. Add a BS 6 Beastmaster to make that shot count.

[Askador]

Well you already had the best solution for monsters in my opinion. Cannons.
They almost always hit if you not roll a malfunction and most monsters have no defence against it.

If you play Darkelves alone.. a Pegasus Dreadlord would be the best way to get rid of them.

[Saintofm]

More anti monster monsters could also help. I'm not sure about empir, but with dark elves its the K beast.

The Bloodwrack Shrine or couldong could also help. Both cause terror, so deals with that. Shrine loweres none DE LD while raising dark elf LD by a point, so LD tests should go by without a hitch.

The Coulddron makes rerolling failed wounds easier, and its bound spell can boost the number attacks they get this round of combat.

[Bigboar]

the best anti-monster weapon we have is a scourgerunner with a beastmaster on it. will hit on 2+ with str. 7 and at you will shoot at least 2-3 times before close combat (if you agree you can stand and shoot with him). I suggest to keep a k-beast close to use a lot of strength 7 attack when you are in melee.

[TheSupremePatriarch]

I was literally thinking about the Scourgerunner chariot a second ago, but then thought I might be tailoring my list a bit much

The cannons I thought were a good call too. Except first turn one misfired, the other rolled a 1 to wound and in the second turn most of the monsters were in combat and almost all the artillery was screamed off the board by Terrorgheists :/ I'm definitely thinking a WE/COB and K-beast combo next time, poisoned attacks would have really helped, even with the Toad Dragons 3+ armour.

[Dark reaper]

I honestly think noone would accuse you of tailoring your list if you use a Scourgerunner Chariot.

We honestly have lots of stuff that kills monsters. Witch Elves, RxBs, Reapers and Twilight Master just to name a few.

[Rownage]

Is it just me or is a Bloodwrack Medusa able to ruin a monster's day (4 shooting attacks on I? Yes please!)?

[Dark reaper]

It's just you.

The problem with the Bloodwrack Medusa is that she will almost always hit on 5+ due to multiple shots, moving and long range. Also, she has ld2 and frenzy, so she is very likely (35 out of 36 times) to just charge the monster next round if not within general/bsb range.

[Rownage]

It's just you.

The problem with the Bloodwrack Medusa is that she will almost always hit on 5+ due to multiple shots, moving and long range. Also, she has ld2 and frenzy, so she is very likely (35 out of 36 times) to just charge the monster next round if not within general/bsb range.

I usually play against Tomb Kings with their T8 but I1 sphinxes so yeah, for me they do pay off . Just keep her within bsb range.

[Dark reaper]

But how do you keep her alive against TK. The last Tomb Kings list I saw had approx 100 archers...

[Rownage]

But how do you keep her alive against TK. The last Tomb Kings list I saw had approx 100 archers...

Play hide and seek until you lock those archers into combat. It does not work all the time, but even if your Bloodwrack kills a sphinx one out of 3 games she's worth it in points, giving my heavy hitters the time to deal with other stuff. A relic sword peg master also might do the job though.

[Dark reaper]

I can't say I am entirely convinced, but if it works for you, that is great.

[Archamedius]

Executioners are good for the Phoenix. They already have ASL and getting again does exactly nothing to them.

Executioners get absolutely murdered by a Frostfire phoenix. You only hit on 4s and wound on 5s. It in return hits on 3s, wounds on 2s, no armor save and has thunderstomp. Plus the phoenix has a relatively small frontage so you are looking at probably 4 in base so that's 8-9 attacks at best.

[Askador]

Executioners are good for the Phoenix. They already have ASL and getting again does exactly nothing to them.

Executioners get absolutely murdered by a Frostfire phoenix. You only hit on 4s and wound on 5s. It in return hits on 3s, wounds on 2s, no armor save and has thunderstomp. Plus the phoenix has a relatively small frontage so you are looking at probably 4 in base so that's 8-9 attacks at best.

Agree.

For me the best way to deal with a Frosty is Dreadlord on Pegasus with Twilight Mantle or Warlokbus with 4or 5 Masters in front rank. Or just magic.

[dms505]

witchs.

[TheSupremePatriarch]

witchs.

won't work - the 'biggest of monsters' rule or however it's worded. Anything beneath S3 can't wound them

[Dalamar]

There is no such rule in warhammer. S1 can wound T10.

[TheSupremePatriarch]

There is no such rule in warhammer. S1 can wound T10.

In the Mounstrous Arcanum, some of the monsters can't be wounded by anything beneath S4, they're the ones I was facing

[Dalamar]

Those rules are optional so not actual warhammer.

Either way, witches are still the answer as on a roll of 6 they wound automatically, regardless of anything.