How to deal with Dwarves and Wood Elves Alliance?

[Carsenik]

So I played a 4k pts 2 v1 this weekend. I played against WE and Dwarves vs DE. I got obliterated!!

They had so much shooting and organ guns and grudge throwers that I didn't even to to them for combat. They killed both CoB's in one turn then peppered off the rest of of my stuff before I even got to them. I have some DR and Warlocks and stuff trying to get close enough to the war machines or but they just died before I could get there.

I really felt there was nothing I can do against them. Anyone has suggestions to face up against something like that?

[Phierlihy]

A lot of Harpies to soak up a round of shooting. And engage as fast as possible.

[T.D.]

Sounds like the sort of match up you'd need to tailor for.

(it's quite easy to imagine being obliterated by an enemy setup like that )

[Saintofm]

What kind of units do they usually field?

[Carsenik]

What kind of units do they usually field?

Basically the Wood Elves had approximately

2 x Glade Riders (Calvary)
3 x Wild Wood (Shooting)
2 x 25 Long Bows (Shooting)

Dwarves had

2 x grudge throwers (shooting)
2x Organ guns (shooting)
1x gyrochopter
2 x 40 long beards or something like that (these just sat back and waited)

So basically, there was 2 turns of me just getting bombarded with shooting and being sniped by the special snipers. Killing off my characters and just killing everything as I had no choice but try and move up.

[Askador]

Its an evil setup. But you had 4k points.

So i would just take 3 units of Dark Riders

2 Units Warloks
Shades
Peglord with twilight mantle
Pegmaster with 4++

And what ever you want to play else. Maybe 30 witches with Cob. (Yeah the Hag will die but who cares?)

He has to kill all those Scouts, Fast Cav and flying units in one turn.. in your 2nd turn they are in melee with all the shooting guys.
Doombolt one of his warmashines in your 1st turn. Probl. the Cannon. If they let you the cannon is down if not they use a ban rune. Try again with the 2nd Warloks if possible.. that should be the Dispell scoll. In your 2nd turn you can finaly cast some spells. You should doombold the Waywatchers once the Dispelling is gone.

[Saintofm]

I have yet to use or face warlocks, but they seem to be the fan favorite of the new DE units.

Tooled up dark riders are fun.

A couple of units of shades seem to be in order, say at least 10 elves each. In the dwarf corner, great weapons to get though tough armor and tougher hide. In the other 2 hand weapons to get lots of attacks on the wood elves.


Corsairs sound like a good idea for for the range attacks

As for the main bulk of dwarves, reapers, hydras, Kharibdyss, sisters of slaughter, executioners, black guard, knights on the charge and anything to provide backup for them will also come in handy.

[Askador]

I dont know about the CoK. The waywatchers just destroy them with ignoring armor shots.

Everything else from those both armys are Armor breaking. What leaves most of the other units kinda defenceless.

But Reapers are a good idea. If they shoot them (With poison or modifyer ignore Arrows) there will be less shots on the Light Cav.

[Dalamar]

Double dragon!

Put them down one flank and they will attract copious amounts of shooting. Join them with three peg masters and apply force accordingly.
That's fine. While theyre focused on the dragons your monsters (hydras would be surprisingly good in this setup) and infantry get to the kill. Plenty of harpies in front of your units as screen will help too.

Wouldn't bother with CoKs. They'll just die fast.

[Saintofm]

Can one dragon be red and one blue? Yes I am a nerd, isn't that obvious by now?

If the alliance is anti armor, why not harpies, witch elves, and sisters of slaughter, as well as the before mentioned shades and dark riders?

[Askador]

Can one dragon be red and one blue? Yes I am a nerd, isn't that obvious by now?

If the alliance is anti armor, why not harpies, witch elves, and sisters of slaughter, as well as the before mentioned shades and dark riders?

Im not a freidn of harpies. They cant charge a Waywatcher unit to stop them shooting or Dwarf shooters or common bow elves. . they would just get killed.

And btw i was about to say the same about the red and the blue.. so i guess im a nerd too

[Phierlihy]

Then you're using Harpies wrong. They are not there to attack anything - they are there to get shot or provide whatever is behind them a -2 to be hit penalty. It's probably been over a year since I actually attacked anything on purpose with my Harpies...

[Red...]

It's an evil setup to face. Unfortunately, with many shooting armies, the game descends into:

- Can your opponent obliterate you with shooting before you reach him?
- If Yes, then you lose. If no, then he loses.

Not so fun.

As others have suggested, using units to distract or soak up fire can be a good plan. A dark pegasus rider with a cloak of twilight and full mundane kit can be good for either soaking up fire, or charging into an enemy archery unit and either destroying them (mainly against artillery) or tieing them up (against archer blocks). Monsters like dragons and hydras can be good for this, but be a little careful as losing a 500 point model (character + dragon) to a lucky volley from a single unit of missile troops is a huge loss!

MSU should be an important component of your game (a unit of 25 archers shooting against a unit of 5 shades can only kill 5 shades, so if you take enough small/medium units then at least some will get across the board unscathed), but don't rule out from big blocks of cheap core entirely. A unit of 40 warriors costs just 360 points, but opponents will often invest a huge amount of artillery and missile fire on shooting it to ribbons because it just looks so big and scary.

I've not really seen the new dwarf book, so don't know how much it still shuts down magic phases, but if you can get a magic phase then several of the lores can be your friend. Metal can give your units +2 armour save 12" bubble (or one single unit in 24"), life can give your troops high toughness, regeneration and regrowth, and beasts can increase your toughness IIRC.

All extra food for thought. Good luck!

[Saintofm]

Magic: The things I can think of are the usual suspects. This also depends on how tooled up for anti magic, and how much that has either been boosted or shot down since the update.

Heavens: There is a spell that blows enemies back, thus moving them (these are move or shoot units for dwarves), another spell that lets yu rerole failed to hit, to wound, and to save throws, another spell that makes your enemy rerole successful to hit to wound and to save armor roles, the Comet, and the Chain Lightning spell.

Dark: I doubt Chill wind will do much (will refrain from discussing how I feel about that nerfing), but there is still Bladewind, word of pain, and black horror.

Shadows will be big as the signiture spell can reduce Balsittic skill, and there is the spell that lowers toughness. THe two damaging spells do so on on initiative tests (guess whose going to fail them).

Death: The direct damage spells vs warmachines. Supreme sorceress on a pegasus and have fun.

Metal: This will depend on how much the enemy will be armored, but Transmute to Lead spell can put a -1 modifier on shooting and closecombat, so that will be fun.

[Askador]

Then you're using Harpies wrong. They are not there to attack anything - they are there to get shot or provide whatever is behind them a -2 to be hit penalty. It's probably been over a year since I actually attacked anything on purpose with my Harpies...

Last game ive seen the Woodelf had 5 times the no modification rule. So Harpyies can block only the Dwarves.
Dark Riders would do the job much better. Give Cover, soaking fire and can charge.

[Dalamar]

You can't take the same arrow on multiple units (without house ruling it)

[Phierlihy]

Then park the Harpies directly behind the elves so they can't keep backing up!

[RedPanda]

You can't take the same arrow on multiple units (without house ruling it)

Mmmmm..... 2 x 25 Long Bows (Shooting)

I don't think he will be taking multiple of the same arrows, likely 25 Poison/AP and 25 NoMod arrows
Then he toss it in the forest = fun.

[Carsenik]

I played some more against Wood Elves this weekend. They get some crazy amount of shooting and makes it very hard to get to them alive.

One things I saw is just having several huge blocks and Moses of chaff. Also, one thing that messed me up is that COK are worthless vs them now cause they have those stupid arrows that give no armor saves so they just went throw the COK like they were nothing. So better not even try to rely on armor.

[Phierlihy]

I think Lore of Life would be ideal against Wood Elves. Dwellers can crush them, Stone to Flesh makes most of their upgrades useless, and it keeps your monsters/characters alive on the way in. Bringing back some extra bodies along the way is just a bonus!

[AWdeV]

Even better with life is that you can use the forests they're using for cover to trash the woodies.

[Askador]

You can't take the same arrow on multiple units (without house ruling it)

I dont know anyone playing this rule. The common consence here is: Its normal Unit Upgreats. You can take how many you want.

[Dalamar]

Common consensus is wrong (and is actually not as common as many think)

They're enchanted items so they need to follow the rules for enchanted items.

[Askador]

Common consensus is wrong (and is actually not as common as many think)

They're enchanted items so they need to follow the rules for enchanted items.

Well i dont want to be the only one Person out of 30-40 Players making a Drama because of it

[Dalamar]

Its not making drama, but ask them if you can take the same magic banner on all your units with access to one.
Its the same deal, both are "unit upgrades"