El Flying Assassino
Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights
El Flying Assassino
I've got a tournament coming up where I am trying to create a fun but quite competitive list. I haven't used an assassin for a while and have recently bought the Shadowblade model so want to use one, so it got me thinking about novel assassin builds.
I thought of the BDE on, but then I thought what about giving him the Arabian Carpet to give him flight.
He could hit mage bunkers, try to take out BSBs and generals without having to commit a unit to fight them easily, and generally cause mayhem. I can't see him lasting but he could probably make his points back and more.
Any major flaws / other targets he could face that you guys can think of, or even a fun load out for an assassin?
I thought of the BDE on, but then I thought what about giving him the Arabian Carpet to give him flight.
He could hit mage bunkers, try to take out BSBs and generals without having to commit a unit to fight them easily, and generally cause mayhem. I can't see him lasting but he could probably make his points back and more.
Any major flaws / other targets he could face that you guys can think of, or even a fun load out for an assassin?
- T.D.
- Killed by Khorne
- Posts: 2818
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:51 pm
- Location: Hinterlands of Khuresh; The Lost City of the Angels
Re: El Flying Assassino
It would be worth it for the lulz
Your opponent would prioritise shooting/magicking it. An expensive diversion!
Not sure I'd try it at a tournament though
Your opponent would prioritise shooting/magicking it. An expensive diversion!
Not sure I'd try it at a tournament though
OldHammer Advanced Ruleset
- Adding Tactical Depth to Your Favourite Tabletop Wargame
- Adding Tactical Depth to Your Favourite Tabletop Wargame
- marcopollo
- Assassin
- Posts: 570
- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:44 pm
- Location: The thin edge of the wedge
Re: El Flying Assassino
A flying assassin into a mage bunker would have to take out the champion, any fighty characters, and do enough combat res to withstand the static combat res that a bunker would have. Perhaps in combo with a shade or DR unit with a champion in it. And with no other items left, he can easily be picked apart by magic and shooting.
Re: El Flying Assassino
Isn't there a rules question here? Models with the Flying Carpet can't join units, but don't assassins have to start hidden?
- Praetorian1979
- Corsair
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:10 pm
- Location: Denmark - Aalborg
Re: El Flying Assassino
Clockwork wrote:Isn't there a rules question here? Models with the Flying Carpet can't join units, but don't assassins have to start hidden?
Page 36 Dark Elves Army Book "Hidden: An assassin can choose to deploy 'hidden' withing another friendly Dark Elf Infantry unit....."
Here as I see it is the choice to deploy hidden or not.
Walk in the light and live not in fear. For We are brothers, our blood ligates us and holds us to our deeds.
Pictures of my little dark elves army: http://s195.photobucket.com/user/xPraet ... /Warhammer
Pictures of my little dark elves army: http://s195.photobucket.com/user/xPraet ... /Warhammer
Re: El Flying Assassino
Good spot.
Re: El Flying Assassino
It's a fun idea, but I just can't see any real value in it.
Compare a pegasus master (PM) side-by-side with the flying Assassin (Ass)
- PM is cheaper than the Ass
- PM can carry extra magic items, while the Ass has used up his allowance on the flying carpet
- PM has T4, while the T3 for the Ass
- PM can deploy in a unit, while the Ass must stand alone
- PM has a base 5+ save and can be given more (light armor and mounted), while the Ass is mandatorily naked
- PM has lots of different mundane weapon choices, while the Ass is limited to additional hand weapons
- PM can be the general, while the Ass cannot
- PM can be the BSB, while the Ass cannot
- PM can confer his leadership to his unit, while the Ass cannot
- PM has 3 wounds, while the Ass has 2
- PM has the extra pegasus attacks, including its stomp, while the Ass fights alone
- PM has leadership 9, while the Ass has just 8
Of course, there are a few pros of the Ass over the PM, including:
- Ass has WS9, while PM has WS6
- Ass has BS9, while PM has BS6
- Ass can take various poisons, while PM cannot
- Ass has I10, while PM has just I7
- Ass has throwing weapons latenly, while PM cannot get them
But most of those are either fairly low impact or don't make up for all of the advantages of the PM over the Ass listed above.
So, in essence, you can have a well armored flying fighting machine riding on a mighty flying warhorse that can join units and has lots of upgrade options (the PM), or you can have an open and exposed Ass, sitting butt naked on a frilly carpet, with the latter costing 20 points. That Ass is going to get creamed.
Of course, you can take the Ass for fluff and fun reasons, but the same argument can be advanced for the Fleetmaster and, well, who does that?
Compare a pegasus master (PM) side-by-side with the flying Assassin (Ass)
- PM is cheaper than the Ass
- PM can carry extra magic items, while the Ass has used up his allowance on the flying carpet
- PM has T4, while the T3 for the Ass
- PM can deploy in a unit, while the Ass must stand alone
- PM has a base 5+ save and can be given more (light armor and mounted), while the Ass is mandatorily naked
- PM has lots of different mundane weapon choices, while the Ass is limited to additional hand weapons
- PM can be the general, while the Ass cannot
- PM can be the BSB, while the Ass cannot
- PM can confer his leadership to his unit, while the Ass cannot
- PM has 3 wounds, while the Ass has 2
- PM has the extra pegasus attacks, including its stomp, while the Ass fights alone
- PM has leadership 9, while the Ass has just 8
Of course, there are a few pros of the Ass over the PM, including:
- Ass has WS9, while PM has WS6
- Ass has BS9, while PM has BS6
- Ass can take various poisons, while PM cannot
- Ass has I10, while PM has just I7
- Ass has throwing weapons latenly, while PM cannot get them
But most of those are either fairly low impact or don't make up for all of the advantages of the PM over the Ass listed above.
So, in essence, you can have a well armored flying fighting machine riding on a mighty flying warhorse that can join units and has lots of upgrade options (the PM), or you can have an open and exposed Ass, sitting butt naked on a frilly carpet, with the latter costing 20 points. That Ass is going to get creamed.
Of course, you can take the Ass for fluff and fun reasons, but the same argument can be advanced for the Fleetmaster and, well, who does that?
"While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. So answer the question."
Don't be a munchkin?
I am an Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman
Don't be a munchkin?
I am an Extraordinary Druchii Gentleman
- Haagrum
- PhD in Dark Magic
- Posts: 592
- Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:54 am
- Location: The depths of the Black Library
Re: El Flying Assassino
It's not an optimal choice, but it'd be good for a laugh, particularly against enemies without much shooting. As a force multiplier, it might also be useful to take a powerful character out of a fight, especially as a flank charger. However, if making an unsupported charge against a unit with one or more ranks and a standard, the Assassin would be too vulnerable to a champion's challenge and losing combat through static resolution.
That said...
<cough> Ahem... <cough>
That said...
Red... wrote:Of course, you can take the Ass for fluff and fun reasons, but the same argument can be advanced for the Fleetmaster and, well, who does that?
<cough> Ahem... <cough>
"The wrath of a good man is not to be feared. They have too many rules."
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."
Re: El Flying Assassino
Red... wrote:It's a fun idea, but I just can't see any real value in it.
(...)
So, in essence, you can have a well armored flying fighting machine riding on a mighty flying warhorse that can join units and has lots of upgrade options (the PM), or you can have an open and exposed Ass, sitting butt naked on a frilly carpet, with the latter costing 20 points. That Ass is going to get creamed.
I see a major advantage to the Ass however : until the Ass the revealed later in the game, your opponent is not aware of a flying mage-killing hero on the battlefield, which may lead him to expose his precious spell-casters.
The PM on Pegasus can be spotted from the start and the opponent can prepare and protect his sorcerers, making them less prone to be charged.
I like the flying Ass a lot.
This kind of mind game far more precious than what we can analyse from the basic comparison of points values.
Lyondri
- marcopollo
- Assassin
- Posts: 570
- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:44 pm
- Location: The thin edge of the wedge
Re: El Flying Assassino
Lyondri wrote:Red... wrote:It's a fun idea, but I just can't see any real value in it.
(...)
So, in essence, you can have a well armored flying fighting machine riding on a mighty flying warhorse that can join units and has lots of upgrade options (the PM), or you can have an open and exposed Ass, sitting butt naked on a frilly carpet, with the latter costing 20 points. That Ass is going to get creamed.
I see a major advantage to the Ass however : until the Ass the revealed later in the game, your opponent is not aware of a flying mage-killing hero on the battlefield, which may lead him to expose his precious spell-casters.
The PM on Pegasus can be spotted from the start and the opponent can prepare and protect his sorcerers, making them less prone to be charged.
I like the flying Ass a lot.
This kind of mind game far more precious than what we can analyse from the basic comparison of points values.
But these types of mind games don't often pay dividends. Reveal the assassin too early and he finds a suitable bunker for his mage while he focuses on the flying glass hammer. This all of a sudden becomes a liability in the magic phase because he can now leverage his magic missiles to get off his super big spell instead.
Reveal him too late and you won't have enough time to catch what you want.
It requires impeccable timing to pull off well.
Even an average player can pick him off in a turn or two. Superior players will notice the point discrepancy in the army and probably determine that he is somewhere and can figure out that some assassin is hiding. All of which will reduce the assassin effectiveness.
- Searinox Nagharha
- Aspiring Brush Master
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:19 pm
- Location: In my Armory, protecting my Weed.
Re: El Flying Assassino
Remember tho that you can reveal the assassin at the start of ANY CC phase, and the unit doesnt have to be in CC for you to reveal him.
It's just a fun little fact to remember
It's just a fun little fact to remember
PLOG - The House of Corvus
Group 41- Name: Searinox Nagharha - Shade
WS:5 S:3 T:3 D:4 I:4
Equipment: Long sword; Falchion (family heirloom), Very Good Sabre, Short sword, Dagger, Throwing Dagger (4) SeaDragon Cloak, Chain
Inventory: 30 gold (214 still to be paid), Silver Bracelet, several flagons: 1x Strength potion, 3x Courage potion, 3x Healing Potion.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Acrobatics, Basic Stealth
Group 41- Name: Searinox Nagharha - Shade
WS:5 S:3 T:3 D:4 I:4
Equipment: Long sword; Falchion (family heirloom), Very Good Sabre, Short sword, Dagger, Throwing Dagger (4) SeaDragon Cloak, Chain
Inventory: 30 gold (214 still to be paid), Silver Bracelet, several flagons: 1x Strength potion, 3x Courage potion, 3x Healing Potion.
Skills: Two Weapon Fighting, Acrobatics, Basic Stealth
Re: El Flying Assassino
A problem with the flying assassin is the rule for magic carpet, prohibiting to join units.
Therefore, the 'sass cannot be deployed hidden in a unit during deployment phase.
Furthermore, he must be deployed alone, which doubles the oddity for a 'sass.
Seeing an assassin deployed not hidden, and remaining alone, the opponent should deduce and understand immediately:
- that the 'sass has the magic carpet,
- that he has no other magic items, because the carpet costs already 50 pts,
- that he is worth 140 to 165 pts, with no armor, no ward save, 2 wounds, T3.
I let you conclude.
Therefore, the 'sass cannot be deployed hidden in a unit during deployment phase.
Furthermore, he must be deployed alone, which doubles the oddity for a 'sass.
Seeing an assassin deployed not hidden, and remaining alone, the opponent should deduce and understand immediately:
- that the 'sass has the magic carpet,
- that he has no other magic items, because the carpet costs already 50 pts,
- that he is worth 140 to 165 pts, with no armor, no ward save, 2 wounds, T3.
I let you conclude.
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}