ETC Openhammer

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights

Post Reply
User avatar
Amboadine
Miscast into the Warp
Miscast into the Warp
Posts: 3510
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:07 am
Location: Investigating Mantica

ETC Openhammer

Post by Amboadine »

Thought this would be worth sharing. Posted on Warseer

Maybe I'm in the wrong forum but this, clearly, is going to the be biggest and most widely accepted adoption of WHFB 8th edition out there with ETC behind it. They are including a full review and update cycle for both army balance and rules revision.

The announcement is here, along with their manifesto and the current rulebook.

I've read through and there are clearly some difficulties with finer points in the translation and there are no units, spells or special rules are included, but that will be in the coming compendium.

Key points:

Random charges remain
Steadfast is gone
Cannon damage and range is reduced but accuracy is about the same
Optional weather and time of day effects are included
Cover and large target rules now apply in combat
Units now pivot around the centre, up to twice in the movement phase
Priests are now included as a type of caster
Magic dice is now summed caster levels plus d3
Dispel dice are now summed caster levels
Maximum dice per cast attempt are now caster level +1
Double ones are an auto-fail to cast
Double sixes are still an irresistible cast, but the caster takes a number of saves equal to dice used against their caster level, with failures causing a wound each
Characters now auto-pass Look Out Sir tests in units of 5 or more
Character displace command models in the front rank
Maximum of two characters per unit
Minimum unit widths and maximum models per unit enforced based on army size
Army selection is by slots not percentages
User avatar
Calisson
Corsair
Corsair
Posts: 8766
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Hag Graef

Re: ETC Openhammer

Post by Calisson »

Sounds very promising.
ETC is for certain "THE" body which can lead no-longer-supported WH8th to a long lasting WH9th that would satisfy the needs of many gamers.

I'd like to see Druchii.net involved in discussions related to adjustments for Dark Elves (hint: our FAQ was based on RAW as much as possible, it could well be amended in a more RAI/practicability as those ETC rules lean towards).

In this respect, I would be highly interested in Killerk's opinion. I understand he has a voice in ETC - and in D.net, too.
I'm not aware of other ETC leaders members of D.net.
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
jeffman
Corsair
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:24 pm
Location: netherlands

Re: ETC Openhammer

Post by jeffman »

+1
I'm a fan!

Not into AoS at all!
User avatar
Asraifrog
Slave (off the Altar)
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:20 pm
Location: Athel Loren
Contact:

Re: ETC Openhammer

Post by Asraifrog »

Nice to see that the Old World still lives :D

Consider this stolen for Asrai.org ;)
The trees have eyes...
User avatar
Cailil
Executioner
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 10:03 am
Location: Albion

Re: ETC Openhammer

Post by Cailil »

I applaud these guys' moxy and I hope it works but although I'm not a lawyer this is all way too close to WHFB for GW's lawyers to ignore IMHO. In fact there's more than GW out there, DnD (wizards of the coast), Tolkien estate (and New line cinema), possibly even game developers who worked with GW and others (Bungie, THQ etc) and Mantic who sell and their KoW rules. They all own IP in this area (even if they aren't all charging for you to have their rules ppl like KoW still own that IP). This might be a bigger issue than it seems at first.

But , don't get me wrong, that's not a reason to scrap their overall dream - its a damn good dream. They should get advice on the legal stuff and go from there.

One small piece of feedback if they're going to "go generic" they need to include round bases too.
Last edited by Cailil on Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Diobarach
Black Guard
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:24 am

Re: ETC Openhammer

Post by Diobarach »

I've looked at a few of these updates and I'm surprised how much people want to change stuff. I feel like only a few things needed to change: accuracy of cannons, miscast results (harsher consequences for using more dice), moving from true line of sight to some level-based system, and some units getting point cost adjustment or slight rule modification.

I think starting with small changes and slowly making adjustments over time would make more sense and be less controversial. With so many changes being made, twocentitis is going to be a pandemic and likelihood of any chance of consensus greatly diminishing.
User avatar
Haagrum
PhD in Dark Magic
Posts: 592
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:54 am
Location: The depths of the Black Library

Re: ETC Openhammer

Post by Haagrum »

Removing Steadfast is an enormous mistake, IMHO, although I would understand if units could not be Steadfast when disrupted.

Most of the other changes seem reasonable, although the changes to magic will likely see a marked decline in numbers of hero-level casters.

I would've liked to have seen a rule which prevented facing abuse with small units or single models (along the lines that the player whose unit has the most ranks chooses who closes the door on a charge, with the charging unit doing so in the case of a tie). I believe it's frowned upon in ETC play, but still legal based on the OP.
"The wrath of a good man is not to be feared. They have too many rules."

"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."
User avatar
Daeron
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 3908
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:36 pm
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Contact:

Re: ETC Openhammer

Post by Daeron »

Man, what a boring read! But it does look (very?) promising. It almost looks like a blend between Warhammer and KoW IMO.
I'll be sure to try it out, if I find an opponent.

Note: depending on the support this wins, we may consider a forum dedicated to it. For now, reports, army lists and discussions can be hosted in the 8th ed forums.
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
User avatar
Calisson
Corsair
Corsair
Posts: 8766
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm
Location: Hag Graef

Re: ETC Openhammer

Post by Calisson »

Whatever path ETC will take will be "the" mainstream future of WH8th.
They are the only ones for a foreseeable time with enough audience and commitment to lead gamers to invest in them.
Think of it, they had already a large audience despite competing against GW about rules, and now GW forfeits.
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
User avatar
Rork
Lord of Khorne
Lord of Khorne
Posts: 8432
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2002 1:29 pm
Location: Leading the revolution (and in the chat).

Re: ETC Openhammer

Post by Rork »

Looks like a massive nostalgia-fest in many respects (I see rules from 4th-6th in there). Removing the chance from Look out, sir! seems a little odd - An effective 2+ ward vs templates meant it wasn't worth sniping most of the time (And they're telling me it would "never" happen?).

Removing steadfast just puts the game back into cavalryhammer again. Tinkering around the edges doesn't solve the problem that some types of units seem to gain supremacy. This is the sort of reason why GW tearing down the rules and starting from scratch makes sense.

While a few of these do help, some are rules that are quite familiar and created an imbalance in their respective editions.
Image

"Rork.. a wonderful guy :)" - Linda Lobsta Defenda

+++ Team Mulligans +++
User avatar
Daeron
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 3908
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:36 pm
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Contact:

Re: ETC Openhammer

Post by Daeron »

If you use a simlar font-size as AoS and leave out the scenarios, the openhammer rulepack is about 5 pages long. :D
A funny little thought.
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
Vulcan
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:13 am

Re: ETC Openhammer

Post by Vulcan »

True, but it's more of an errata than a full rules set.
User avatar
Killerk
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1065
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 9:56 pm
Location: Poland

Re: ETC Openhammer

Post by Killerk »

To be honest it is verry dull, like a reheated left overs. Sure you can eat it, but you could also order something fresh. it's like going backwards in evolution.
Also known as Kanadian
Image
Image
User avatar
toots
Beastmaster
Posts: 334
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:25 pm

Re: ETC Openhammer

Post by toots »

Agree wholeheartedly!!

Haagrum wrote:Removing Steadfast is an enormous mistake, IMHO, although I would understand if units could not be Steadfast when disrupted.

Most of the other changes seem reasonable, although the changes to magic will likely see a marked decline in numbers of hero-level casters.

I would've liked to have seen a rule which prevented facing abuse with small units or single models (along the lines that the player whose unit has the most ranks chooses who closes the door on a charge, with the charging unit doing so in the case of a tie). I believe it's frowned upon in ETC play, but still legal based on the OP.
Post Reply