No cauldron, no bsb, no hydra, 2000 points

[Deadlydeception]

(EDIT: Newest list on 9th post. Also, title may no longer be completely accurate)

Lords: 290 points

Lv 4 with tome of furion, talisman of protection, and lore of death 290

Heroes: 324 points

Master on Manticore with black dragon egg, lance, shield, heavy armour, cloak 324

Core: 665 points

30 spearmen with shields and full command 225
5 dark riders with xbows. musician and banner 131
5 dark riders with xbows, musician and banner 131
15 corsairs with handbows and full command with double x-bow champ 178

Special: 617points

10 Cold one knights with full command and ironcurse amulet 315
6 shades with extra hand weapons 102
6 shades with extra hand weapons 102
Chariot 100

Rare: 100

1 Bolt Thrower 100

1998 points

This army list doesn't have many of the typical power-units, but I think it could still work.
Shades hunt warmachines and combine with the dark riders to be a good harassing team. The CoK, chariot, and master can do some damage in close combat and are fairly mobile. The sorceress could sit in either infantry block depending on the circumstances, but she should be able to put out a good bit of magical damage and hopefully use doom and darkness to reduce enemy leadership.

Thoughts?
Thoughts and criticism would be appreciated.

[Masamune]

Do you really need 5 spells on Death lore? Personally I would opt for one of the other arcane items but if you have an idea of must have spells that you think outweighs it I'd like to hear what it is. Death doesn't exactly have the lowest casting values so I don't think you can get off 5 spells most of the time.

The manticore seems iffy to me. He's quite pricey and I don't really see how he will survive. I like that it's trying something different though and would like to hear if he can actually prove himself over several games (or even survive them). The fact that you aren't spending 25 more points to make him a BSB is especially strange to me since he'd get 18" range and you don't have a BSB otherwise.

The banners on the DR are a little off to me. Are they just for that one scenario where you need banners to outlast? Even then the DR units go down so fast it seems like they will be lost anyways. I would drop them.

The bolt thrower seems like it is going to be easy prey. You don't have RXB to sit around it or anything in your list (I assume the corsairs will want to get into the action for their slavers rule) - everything will just be moving away from it, leaving it isolated. I can't really see how enemy war machine hunters, flying chars, scouts, etc. don't just pick this off turn 1 or 2.

Everything else seems pretty good though.

[Meteor]

Remember Lore of Death damage spells lets you generate PD back. 5 Spells raises your chance of getting THE spells you want/need. Every single spell is a want for me, including the signature.

DRs are a useful unit for baiting, better than Harpies, so the fact you got two units in is good. Though they're quite easy prey to missiles of any form. The lone bolt thrower is useful for countering enemy skirmishers and fast cav/flyers so your combat units can move in unhindered. Though it seems to me your success in a one turn combat win weighs heavily on either getting your spears into combat, or getting D&D off on the charged unit.

I personally quite like this list and if I had a Manticore, I'd definitely give it a try too. Despite what people say about Manticores, I haven't really heard any feedback on their performance yet.

[Vaari]

You had me at Manticore. Thumbs up

They only change I would make would be turning that Repeater (they are just terrain in this ed.) into a unit of Harpies or a Hydra. If you went Hydra, the extra points could be made from a unit of DR.

I know DR are getting a lot of flak this ed - but if you like them, keep running them. I ran Executioners all last edition, blackguard be damned. Let us know how it runs.

[Too cold]

I like it, I would ask if you would consider using the hydra and drop the BT. If the Manti is the only scary looking model across the table he is dead on turn one. The Hydra gives you a distraction and spreads the threat. Now he worries about the CoK, Hydra and Manti. Also, I like the RoD to make the manti a little harder to hit.

Anyways, please share your gaming results and tell us how it does.

[Deadlydeception]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

Remember Lore of Death damage spells lets you generate PD back. 5 Spells raises your chance of getting THE spells you want/need. Every single spell is a want for me, including the signature.

Exactly! I want all of the spells in the lore, especially doom and darkness.

You had me at Manticore. Thumbs up

I love the model and enjoy using it in battles. Definitely keeping this guy.

The bolt thrower seems like it is going to be easy prey.

consider using the hydra and drop the BT

You guys have a good point here.

The fact that you aren't spending 25 more points to make him a BSB is especially strange to me

I guess I have to get a BSB too. The manticore probably is twice as survivable as the units of dark riders, so the banner goes on him. Who knows, maybe he'll end up close enough to my units for me to use the reroll. List has been revised as follows:


Revision 1

Lords: 310
Lv 4 with tome of furion, Pendant of Khaeleth, and lore of death 310

Heroes: 349 points
Master on Manticore with black dragon egg, lance, shield, heavy armour,
sea dragon cloak, banner 349

Core: 525 (580 with harpies)
30 spears with shields and full command, scarecrow banner 230
5 harpies 55
5 dark riders with xbows and musician 117
15 corsairs with handbows and full command with double x-bow champ 178

Special:585
10 Cold one knights with full command and ironcurse amulet 315
5 shades with extra hand weapons 85
5 shades with extra hand weapons 85
Chariot 100

Rare: 175
1 Hydra 175

1999 points

Scarecrow banner is mainly to use those last couple points. If anyone has suggestions for using them differently I would be most appreciative. I should be able to get a game in friday or saturday so I'll see how it goes. Thanks again for the help

[Meteor]

Don't need Hydra...I liked your unique list because it doesn't take the three main units every list has. BSB on manti is good, large target means you get an 18" reroll, being on a flyer makes it highly mobile too. Ditch the Hydra and take something else!

[Jl177]

Master on Manticore with black dragon egg, lance, shield, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, banner

1 Hydra

Now the thread title is only half right.

[Deadlydeception]

I guess I better stay true to the title of my thread and ditch the hydra. I was unable to get a game in on the weekend but I did rethink a couple of things in my list. After reading this article I thought that maybe a sneaky assassin could replace my hydra. He would probably go in one of the shade units. I also turned the dark riders into harpies in order to make my corsairs a decent sized unit. Here's the new list.


Revision 2
Lords: 310
Lv 4 with tome of furion, Pendant of Khaeleth, and lore of death 310

Heroes: 349 points
Master on Manticore with black dragon egg, lance, shield, heavy armour,
sea dragon cloak, banner 349

Core: 465 (720 with harpies and assassin)

30 spears with shields and full command and scarecrow banner 230
5 harpies 55
5 harpies 55
20 corsairs with handbows and full command with banner of eternal flame 235
Assassin with manbane, rending stars, additional hand weapon 145

Special:619
10 Cold one knights with full command and ironcurse icon 315
6 shades with extra hand weapons 102
6 shades with extra hand weapons 102
Chariot 100


1998 points


If I get rid of the magic items in the squads (2 banners and the ironcurse icon) I could get the cloak of twilight on my assassin. I'm not sure what would be more useful. Thoughts?

[Jl177]

Harpies and assassins don't count towards core; you are short the 25%.

[Deadlydeception]

right... dang.

Revision 3
Lords: 310
Lv 4 with tome of furion, Pendant of Khaeleth, and lore of death 310

Heroes: 349 points
Master on Manticore with black dragon egg, lance, shield, heavy armour,
sea dragon cloak, banner 349

Core: 505 (760 with harpies and assassin)

30 spears with shields and full command with scarecrow banner 230
5 harpies 55
5 harpies 55
24 corsairs with handbows and full command with banner of eternal flame 275
Assassin with manbane, rending stars, additional hand weapon 145

Special:580
10 Cold one knights with full command with ironcurse icon 310
5 shades with extra hand weapons 85
5 shades with extra hand weapons 85
Chariot 100


1999 points

That should be better

[Dangerous Beans]

I like the new list mate! I'm intrigued though to hear how you've been getting on with the assassin? I took it vs lizardmen today and he did naff all! (no stegs and carnosaur was in a unit of cold one saurus...)

[Tomcowlin]

Just wanna point out the manticore master, bsb and magic item?

You could try giving the sorceress dark magic and the sacrificial dagger. You'll be able to get off nearly all and sometimes all the spells you have each turn.

Also I've found that 10 knights are too much. 7 isn't as unwieldy and saves you points. I'd advise the banner of murder for them too. You could buy some extra shades with this to take out warmachines. As well, I would go for AHWs on the corsairs maybe with the frenzy standard. I think that the handbow's range will make them ineffective.

[Dangerous Beans]

Agreed with tomcolin's comments.

Any news/updates about how the army has faired in practise games Deception?