Shades or Bolt Throwers?

Demetrius · Post by **Demetrius** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:09 am

Hey guys, Im going into a 2400 point tournement in April and Im writing a list atm. ATM Im stuck though, I need more shooting, I know that, but cant decide whether 2 RBTs or 2 units of 5 Shades would be more useful.

The rest of my list roughly looks like this

Dreadlord- Manticore, SDC, SH, Lance, BDE, SOG, AOES
Hag- BSB, COB
Sorceress- LVL2, TOF, Scroll

30 Warriors- Shields, FC
20 Crossbows- Shields, Muso
5 DRs- RXBs
5 DRs- RXBs

14 Executioners- FC
14 Witch Elves- FC, BOEF
5 COKs

Hydra

The way I see it, shades are better all rounders and more versatile, can hunt warmachines etc, however at 2400 Im not sure how long they will last up close to the enemy (magic missiles etc) as well as my 2 DR units can forfill the warmachine hunter role.

The bolt throwers will be useful for shooting heavier or tougher opponents and can put pressure on enemy monsters, but they dont take much to be killed with 2 wounds.

Either way, I need more shooting. Any imput would be appreciated

Hainzy · Post by **Hainzy** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:07 am

Hey mate,

Bolties have been some what nerfed a bit in 8th ed seeing st 3 shooting can now take them out alot easier.

If it were me I'd take the bolties. It gives you that long range threat and can take out you opponents light cav or other war machine hunters.

But as you've said. They only have two wounds.

Ah, the joys of list building....

Cheers,

H :twisted:

Senluthan · Post by **Senluthan** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:42 pm

if i should choose between shades and RBT shades.. i prefer mobile armies.. but more than any of them i would say with you RxB and DR you have enough shooting and personally i would fletch out the COK instead.. hmm just another thought..

But shades..

Kadahn · Post by **Kadahn** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:05 pm

The other thing to keep in mind with a large game is that there are more units on the table. The more bodies he has in his battle line the harder it is to deploy your scouts in an advantageous flanking position, robbing them of one of their main benefits.

Not rating one over the other, as I include both at that level, but its something to consider.

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:16 pm

I also agree with bulking up the Cold One Knights...

If you really think you need more shooting though, I'd take the Shades. They're just a lot more flexible for different roles than the bolt throwers are, and you have other hard-hitting options in your list if you find you need something that's Strength 6.

Post by **Dyvim tvar** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:39 pm

Go for the shades. Not only do they add to shooting, but they are good for hunting enemy war machines.

The virgin forest · Post by **The virgin forest** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:35 pm

Another vote for Shades with AHW. They're precise, mobile and cheap to throw away.

And they're ninja

Meteor · Post by **Meteor** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:52 am

Yes definitely shades with AHW. Like many have said, they're way more versatile.

I personally like mobile shooting platforms over static ones for the greater flexibility and maneuverability. Which is why I prefer DR and Shades over RxB and RBT. They can avoid soft or hard cover modifiers, and you end up picking what you want to shoot at, not what your opponent decides to throw at you.

Shades can hunt WM, redirect, assassinate characters, especially wizards coupled with your CoB KB, it can easily kill off light cav and avoid being charged whilst continuing to shoot.

RBT can kill heavy cav and wound monsters easier, on top of everything else, are somewhat accurate, but that's it. It's an immobile shooting platform and is too expensive for the few things it can do.

Demetrius · Post by **Demetrius** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:15 am

Ok, Shades are looking like the winners here.

However, a couple of you suggested bulking up the COKs. My original plan was to actually have 10 with FC and SOHG, but I thought I needed more shooting. Is what I have enough already? I know its 60 shots, but only from 3 units, and everyone knows how inaccurate RXBs unless you have lots of them.

Again thanks for the feedback

Gjriff · Post by **Gjriff** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:06 pm

+1 for Shades w/ 2 hand weapons

Aveleys · Post by **Aveleys** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:17 pm

Demetrius the Betrayer wrote:However, a couple of you suggested bulking up the COKs. My original plan was to actually have 10 with FC and SOHG

You could bulk up the cold ones which would be a good idea since at 5 of them if they take one or two wounds then they are much less effective. A third option would be to add more executioners. I used to run a unit of 15 and it was never enough since most the time they died before getting to strike.
Cheers,
-Ave

Tethlis · Post by **Tethlis** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:10 pm

I really like my unit of 10 Knights. With Cauldron support, they're even more effective.

I myself only have 20 repeater crossbowmen in my 2500 list (no other shooting at all) and have good success. I used to have Shades and a Manbane/Rending Star Assassin also, but I dropped them to include Harpies and more robust Special choices. Since then, I've fought Skaven, Warriors of Chaos, Dwarves and other Dark Elves with great success. The 10-strong Cold One Knights were pivotal in each of my games.

Dm crew · Post by **Dm crew** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:46 pm

Sorceress- LVL2, TOF, Scroll

It is invalid, because sorc cant take 2 Arcane items)
And IMO Shades are better.

Malekii · Post by **Malekii** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:15 am

I would take one of each and then spend the leftover points on the CoK and other stuff.

Blunch3 · Post by **Blunch3** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:43 am

Only take Shades in smaller point games. They become more and more useless the larger the games get.

Sulphunet · Post by **Sulphunet** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:52 am

I don't know, Shades always have a place. Especially against artillery armies, such as Dwarfs. But bulking out COK is a really good idea, maybe even dropping some other shooring units.

I play very heavy combat armies, and find shooting doesn't always help, so I usually run 8-10 COK, which is amazing on its own. With a Magic Banner, or COB, they are nigh unstoppable. Bulk the COK

Ravenwing011 · Post by **Ravenwing011** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:42 am

Shades no questions, and if you really want to keep it intersting run an assassin with them, take manbane and rending stars. The manbane will give him one str higher than his target (max of 6) the stars gives him +1 str so agaisnt warmachines and high toughness targets he can potentially reach str 7 maximum. If this seems extreme we checked on this for the tournament and its totally legal. The shades wil provide extra wounds to keep him alive and extra shooting to mop up. It works wonders at our local tourney and helped me take out three warshrines. It really forces your opponent to deal with the mobile threat they provide.

just my ywo cents, but i'm taking shades and assassins more often now.

Post by **Underway** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:30 pm

Moved to Army lists

Saintofm · Post by **Saintofm** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:34 am

I'd go shades. Bolt throwers need at least 3 or 4 models to be useful as a single one no longer can cause a unit to panic as many units are being fielded larger and larger for steadfast and hordes rules.

Besides, shades can be parked just in range of several units, or safely within charge distance of some warmachines/shooty units that you know won't charge you.