2500 Point Tourny List "Shadows of Hate"

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Dosadi
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2500 Point Tourny List "Shadows of Hate"

Post by Dosadi »

I’ve been using this Army in one form or another since 8th came out. However, I stopped playing about 8 months ago and just recently decided to get back into the game. I’m interested to see what the state of the game is like after my hiatus. Having cruised through the tactics forum the past few days I decided I’d post my list to see what the Dreadlord’s here thought of it.

Shadows of Hate

Lords: 335
Mistress of Shadows
Supreme Sorceress: 335
Level 4 (Lore of Shadows)
Guiding Eye, Pendant of Khaeleth, Tome of Furion
(Deploys with RBX's)

Heroes: 395

Death Hag: 200
Cauldron of Blood


Death Hag: 195
BSB: Standard of Hag Graef
Dance of Doom, Hand of Khaine
(Deploys with Exec's)


Assassin: 151
2 Hand Weapons
Manbane, Rending Stars
(Deploys with Shades)


Assassin: 146
2 Hand Weapons
Manbane, Rune of Khaine
(Deploys with Corsairs)

Core: 625

25 Crossbowmen: 295
Shields
Guardmaster, Musician, Standard

28 Corsairs: 330
Reaver, Musician, Standard: Sea Serpent Standard

Special: 571

27 Executioners: 369
Draich-Master, Musician, Standard: Lichebone Pennant

6 Shades: 102
2 Hand Weapons

Cold One Chariot: 100

Rare: 275

Hydra: 175

Reaper Bolt Thrower: 100

Total: 2498

The Execs often become target #1 so they get the Bloodshield (giving them a 4+ ward vs magic with the Lichebone banner and a 5+ otherwise). The cauldron deploys beside or behind them to provide the Stubborn.

the Shades are for rear field disruption and war machine hunting. The Assassin with Rending Stars/Manbane can stay with them or split off when needed. Even occupying a building is a good plan with these guys.

The Corsairs and Execs do most of the dirty work with the hydra and chariot on each flank as support. The execs make a B-line towards the most powerful enemy unit and most times are able to take a huge chunk out of it with Fury of Khaine and their Killing Blows. The BSB will always issue a challenge if possible to keep herself out of trouble as she is fragile and necessary for the Execs to hit at Initiative.
The Corsairs, are the same size as the execs and some opponents will pay them more attention (all the better) while others underestimate them. I can say that Occam’s Mind Razor on a unit of frenzied Corsairs is a slice & dice fest. Combined with the Assassin who is great at both cutting down a rank or taking out a character in a challenge, these guys tend to be just a deadly as the Execs.

Reaper Bolt Thrower is there to target big things or assist the RBX’s in cutting down a Withered unit.

The Sorceress is a hex bomb with Lore of Shadows. She will have 5 spells and so usually has her pick of the lore. Withering and then opening up with up to 50 RBX shots will decimate a unit; the Guiding Eye is there to mitigate poor to-hit rolls as according to the FAQ I can see what my rolls are like before deciding to use it. If an enemy gets too close, the RBX’s can reform into a 5x5 block and with the shield Parry can usually withstand a round of HtH and remain Steadfast.
All the Hexes have their role and when matched up with the two main fighting units (Execs and Corsairs) can give you edge in fight that will ensure your opponent isn’t Steadfast at the end. I almost always avoid Steed of Shadows and Pendulum, preferring Miasma and Pit of Shades. But really the 3 Hexes are where it’s at with this army.

So, all that said;

How do you think the list will stand up to "common" Tournament builds of other armies?

Should I drop the size of the corsairs (or all the shades Shades) in favor of taking some Dark Riders or is Fast Cav really worth it in 8th?

While I like the ability to take 5 Spells on the Sorceress (thus ensuring I pretty much get the spells I want), do you think I instead need a Dispel Scroll considering how good Magic is in 8th?

I'm considering dropping the Rending Star Assassin & Shades in favor of some CoKs. How many do I need for them to really be a viable unit if they are primarily going to act as support to the infantry blocks?


Thanks for taking the time to read this.


Dosadi
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Aveleys
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Post by Aveleys »

Well it is really dificult for assasins to get their points back in this edition so cold ones would probably be a better choice, if you dropped both assasin's and the bolt thrower you could fit in 10 cold one's with the standard of hag graef, which would be a very potent combat unit.
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Tmarichards
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Post by Tmarichards »

I think you should really reconsider the reasons why you're taking Executioners instead of either Witches or Black Guard.

The advantage of Executioners is that they're always S6. However, to become even vaguely viable, they need a vulnerable ASF BSB in there- this is a lot of points in a 2 wound model with a 5+ save, and she doesn't make the Executioners a good choice, merely a viable one.

Consider, on the other hand, 2 alternatives.

The first is to take Black Guard with full command, banner of Murder and Crimson Death. For 345pts, you get double the base attacks, admittedly 2pts less of strength, but you don't need to put a vulnerable BSB in there to let them use their base initiative, saving you points to put into the rest of the list.

Another alternative would be to take Witches- the poison and three times as many attacks will make up for the lower strength against a lot of targets. They also do not need an expensive and vulnerable BSB to become viable.

Either of these would allow you to make the Cauldron your BSB, which is pretty much the safest possible place for her.

Of course, the downside of these 2 alternatives is that you have lower strength. However, you've invested in 5 levels of Shadow magic, meaning you'll almost certainly get Mindrazor. With this in the equation, Black Guard and Witches do everything that Executioners do but with more attacks, and without needing that squishy BSB in there.

Essentially, my point is that Executioners are very much a sub par choice, for the points you're spending in them (and also the ASF BSB), you could get more stuff that would do the same job much better.
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Tmarichards
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Post by Tmarichards »

I think you should really reconsider the reasons why you're taking Executioners instead of either Witches or Black Guard.

The advantage of Executioners is that they're always S6. However, to become even vaguely viable, they need a vulnerable ASF BSB in there- this is a lot of points in a 2 wound model with a 5+ save, and she doesn't make the Executioners a good choice, merely a viable one.

Consider, on the other hand, 2 alternatives.

The first is to take Black Guard with full command, banner of Murder and Crimson Death. For 345pts, you get double the base attacks, admittedly 2pts less of strength, but you don't need to put a vulnerable BSB in there to let them use their base initiative, saving you points to put into the rest of the list.

Another alternative would be to take Witches- the poison and three times as many attacks will make up for the lower strength against a lot of targets. They also do not need an expensive and vulnerable BSB to become viable.

Either of these would allow you to make the Cauldron your BSB, which is pretty much the safest possible place for her.

Of course, the downside of these 2 alternatives is that you have lower strength. However, you've invested in 5 levels of Shadow magic, meaning you'll almost certainly get Mindrazor. With this in the equation, Black Guard and Witches do everything that Executioners do but with more attacks, and without needing that squishy BSB in there.

Essentially, my point is that Executioners are very much a sub par choice, for the points you're spending in them (and also the ASF BSB), you could get more stuff that would do the same job much better.
"he's got quite an arrogant british air about him that i used to think was really annoying but now it cracks me up.

"Tut, tut old lad! that's not how you play 'the Queen's' Warhammer!"
*takes sip of tea*"

Check out my Youtube bettle reports http://druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=68253
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Rabidnid
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Post by Rabidnid »

Overall i like it, but I think that the BSB death hag is not cost effective. As long as the unit is stubborn, losing 15 models before they get to strike back isn't going to be a big deal, and even so, they can still hurt another unit badly.

I would make the CoB the BSB and run the exes with just a banner and muso, freeing up a couple hundred points. Drop one of the assassins and you will have over 350 points to spend on more troops like 2 units of hapies, and a 7/8 strong unit of CoKs with a muso and the ASF banner.
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Azimyth
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Post by Azimyth »

The death hag BSB is not really worth it, she's incredibly squishy. I find it's usually better to make the cauldron the BSB and spend the extra points on bulking up the executioners.
I'm also not sold on comabt assassins anymore; they die too quickly for my liking
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Ichiyo1821
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Post by Ichiyo1821 »

A little to character heavy and not much bodies in my opinion and too many unnecessary options.

Do you really need to give your SS another spell?

The Hag BSB will die more than she will have the opportunity to be of use against seasoned opponents.

The assassins in 8th are fluff units. Shades can do their jobs minus the point costs.

No need for a guardmaster.

No need for champ if you take into account that Execs are not suppose to tackle something they cant handle outright. Best banner without a Hag is Banner of Swiftness.

RBT are less likely to impact the game with minimal shooting and lack of synergy with the rest of the army.

Again more bodies.
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