My frst post as Druchii=>Starter army: all corners 1000pt

Akaron · Post by **Akaron** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:06 pm

Hi DE gurus,

First of all, many thanks to all of you for maintaining this... let say... Source of Druchii Knowledge!

This is my first attempt at creating a WHFB army list, so probably it is not so balanced at all, but I would like to get your opinion:

Sorceress (Shadow): level 2 + PoK + ToF

20 RxB [Shield + FC]
10 RxB [Musso]
5 Harpies
5 Harpies
5 Shades [AHW]
1 CoC
1 Hydra
-----------------------------
Hero 185 [15%]
Core 340 [28%] + 110 Harpies [9%]
Special 185 [15%]
Rare 175 [14%]
------------------------------
total 995

Taking into account that I am completely new in this game, is this list a good one to start with?

Do you think that I should better use a bigger and more dedicated anvil? (i.e. 25+ spear or even corsairs)

Should I reconsider having 3 fast/light units at this range of points? Probably 2 units of them is enough? If so, what could I use to fill in 60 points, considering that I would discard 1 unit of harpies?

Do you think that having a BSB is almost "mandatory" even for low point games?

I would say that I am worried about matters not so relevant to a nooby like me! but I would like to start learning "in the right way" from the beggining...

Many thanks in advance for your comments!

Regards

Laddyn · Post by **Laddyn** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:50 pm

Hello Akaron,

First of all, welcome to druchii.net

Having a level 2 sorceress as your general in such a small point game is a good choice, the lore you choice though can be debatable. I would personally go for dark magic instead. At such a low point game doing damage to a unit (especially blade wind will be great ^^) will be felt by your opponent. Not to mention we got a couple of spells we can even cast while the enemy unit is in combat with one of ours!

Lets move to your core choices:

20 RXB with shields and FC would really benefit from a musician seeing as you were on 995 points and an upgrade to musician would make it 1000 exactly. The FC is debatable and if you need to free up some cheap points that would be one of the things that you can drop to get some free points.

10 RXB with musician as you dont really have an anvil in your army i would drop this unit to free up 105 points to get some points available for one.

2 units of 5 harpies if you also keep in mind that you have a unit of shades then i would personally suggest to drop 2 out of the 3 units. Once you go for 1500 points i would suggest adding 1 of them back in, but for 1000 points more then 1 isnt really needed.

5 shades with AHW. These are my personal favorites at disrupting the enemy, some people would disagree, but i have had better experiences with these guys then with harpies.

1 COC. Seeing as chariots cant march it is really a slow moving unit i would personally get rid of it and use the points for another unit.

1 Hydra. What can i say, its the icing on the cake really. By far one of our most cost effective unit we have! Even won some battles because people overestimated his point cost for what he does

. Overall a really solid choice.

Now a quick sum-up of what i would do:
- Drop the 10 RXB with musician
- Add a musician to the 20 RXB unit
- Drop 2 units of harpies
- Drop the CoC
(This would free up 310 points)
- Add a unit of 20 spearman with full command (155 points)
- Add a unit of 5 CoKs with a standard (151 points)

That would total your army on 996 with the rest as they are.

About the BSB, at 1000 points you cant really afford the points to go for a BSB as it would certainly get you over the 25% allowance. And fortionatly it isnt a necessity for < 1000 games. Personally i think 1500 or higher is where it gets interesting to get a BSB in.

Hope this helps and hope you will have a great time playing dark elves.

Regards,
Laddyn

Aveleys · Post by **Aveleys** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:33 pm

This is definatly a strong starting list to use. Here are a couple options that I suggest you look into for an even stronger list. Drop one unit of harpies and the chariot, you already have enough skirmishers for 1000 points and any more will begin to lower the capability of the rest of your army by reducing available points. Use those points to make the other unit of repeater crossbows into 20 with full command and shields, that way you have 2 units of 20.

The reason I am suggesting this is that at 1000 points it is dificult to create a flexible list, so by building around these 2 units you have a solid core that can act in combat after having fired 80 shots a turn (and the other 10 from the shades), which will be devastating against a lot of armies. Since repeater crossbows are not as good in close combat as corsairs or other elite combat units, I recommend keeping shadow on the level 2 as mindrazor will make those units very fearsome and withering will ensure that your shooting is even better.
Cheers,
-Ave

Laddyn · Post by **Laddyn** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:40 pm

I am not sure if shadow would be a good idea for a level 2 Ave, i agree that there are some great spells in there, but the casting cost of more then half the spells is 13+. Which results in needing at least 3 dice per spell (50% succes chance) preferable 4 (84.1% succes chance) to cast it or even more dice 6+ for mindrazor. Hence the suggestion for dark with its low casting cost spells.

I dont want to turn this thread into a dark vs shadow discussion but just thought id point this out quickly. If your up for discussing it further feel free to make a topic in the tactics section or drop me a pm

Back to the army discussion:
The suggestion to make a second 20 RXB with full command (and assuming upping the first one to full command as well) could work well. The only thing that could be a problem is that the only heavy hitter left would be the Hydra. Still, with 80 shots focused on a tough unit it should take some casualties at least or might even take out weaker units / easy finishers for your hydra.

Akaron · Post by **Akaron** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:11 am

Laddyn and Ave, many thanks for your inputs

I am eager for using 2x20 RxB: 80 shots + stand&shoot seems to be something to be taken into account by opponents!

On the other hand, it seems that CoC is not a good option at all, so I will keep on studying possible uses (I really like this unit!)

Regarding Shadow vs Dark, I will try to do some math and use them both in battles to get my own conclussions. At first, I'd say that Tome of Furion is better for Dark (so I could drop it if I finally wanted to use Shadow...)

Some questions regarding deployment: I assume that both RxB units will be deployed as 10x2, so:

i) when should I move to 5x4 or even 7x3/6x3? are there some indicators to be evaluated in order to decide whether rearrange? (i.e. # ranks or # models of the charging unit, # units charging, ...)

ii) when should I move the Sorceress out of her unit?

Sorceress (Shadow): level 2 + PoK + ToF

20 RxB [Shield + FC]
20 RxB [Shield + FC]
5 Harpies
6 Shades [AHW]
1 Hydra

Total 997pts

Thanks again for your help

Regards

Dirty Mac · Post by **Dirty Mac** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:12 am

This is the list I made

Sorc lvl2 (Dark) ToF guiding eye. seed of rebirth. 185

20 xbow shield mus 225

20 warriors FC shields gleaming pennant 167

20 corsair FC SSS AHW 250

5 shades AHW 85

5 Shades AHW 85

Sorc goes in the Xbow unit.

I feel that this is a solid list.
let me know what you think.

Laddyn · Post by **Laddyn** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:13 am

Regarding Shadow vs Dark, I will try to do some math and use them both in battles to get my own conclussions. At first, I'd say that Tome of Furion is better for Dark (so I could drop it if I finally wanted to use Shadow...)

Dont you mean better for shadow and dropping it for dark? Although its great to have 3 spells on a level 2, higher chance of getting the spells you really want.

i) when should I move to 5x4 or even 7x3/6x3? are there some indicators to be evaluated in order to decide whether rearrange? (i.e. # ranks or # models of the charging unit, # units charging, ...)

For me its more of a check whats comming their way:
- Will they be able to make the charge? (if they need to roll a 10+ for the charge distance there is a high chance it will fail)
- What is the armour save of the unit (the once that get close to your RXBow unit will most likely be shot at at least once, so you know what the save is). Is the save 4+ stay 2 x 10 and maximize the shots to take down as many as posible(reform to a different formation when your in CC). If the save is 3 or lower then i check the next step.
- Howmany models are left in that unit? If its cavelry and you already managed to shoot a few down so the unit is less then 5 stay 2 x 10 and maximize shooting again to take at least one hopefully two more down.
- If none of the above applies, reform to best suit the enemy charging you. 'Easy' targets (t3, save 5+) you can go 2 ways, 7 x 3 to maximize the closecombat attacks or if your afraid you might lose a lot of models its better to go for a deep formation and aim for steadfast while (hopefully) your hydra charges in your turn into their flank.

ii) when should I move the Sorceress out of her unit?

Personally i hardly ever let my sorceress jump out of the unit. You might want to consider it if the other RXBow unit is in range but out of charge distance of the enemy unit. If you let her go out on her own you have a high chance your opponent will target any damaging spells / shooting / fliers / scouts etc to go for your sorceress.

Regards,
Laddyn

Akaron · Post by **Akaron** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:36 am

Dont you mean better for shadow and dropping it for dark? Although its great to have 3 spells on a level 2, higher chance of getting the spells you really want.

Actually not. I was thinking in terms of # spells casted per turn ("troughput"). Given that dark spells seem to need less power dices to be casted (on average) I thought that having ToF is better with dark in terms of maximizing "trhougput".

Anyway, having an additional spell is not all about "throughput" but also "flexibility" and probability of getting the desired spells (as you said). So definetely I'd say that ToF worth it in any case for a level 2 lonly sorceress.

Many thanks for your tips Laddyn!
Regards

Dirty Mac · Post by **Dirty Mac** » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:46 pm

I would stick with Dark magic for now. i used shadow at the start, but it has no real effect. it is best used as support magic on a 2nd mage. drop toughness with shadow, and attack with dark etc. Dark has some nice direct damage spells that you will find useful.