2500 - Khainite free theme

[Dunya]

Hey again,

been working on a new approach to my Dark Elves as I am getting a bit tired of the old CoB+Sac Dagger hit or miss type army. My experience with the army in this post http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?p= ... nya#842890 , is that often time the game comes down to getting that one crucial turn with mindrazor/withering/cob charges. Sometimes games just don't unfold in a way that lets you get everything aligned, and tbh it tends to be a bit boring as there's really not much the opponent can do when the setup is there.

My idea with this army is to be as efficient as possible, even without magical support. Optimally the different elements of the army are no longer as interdepent on eachother, hopefully that will remove the sort of "house of cards" feel to the army, while still being competitive.

Dreadlord (General) - Sea Dragon Cloak, Blood Armor, Executioners Axe (241)
Supreme Sorceress - Level 4, Lifetaker, Dispel Scroll, Lore of Shadow (315)
Master - Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Great Weapon, Dragonhelm, Pendant of Khaeleth, Battle Standard Bearer (212)
21 Corsairs - Standard Bearer, Musician, Additional Hand Weapons, Sea Serpent Standard (250)
10 Repeater Crossbowmen - Musician (105)
35 Warriors - Standard Bearer, Musician, Shields, Banner of Murder (279)
5 Harpies (55)
8 Shades (136)
8 Shades (136)
20 Black Guard - Standard Bearer, Musician, Banner of Hag Graef (316)
10 Cold One Knights - Musician (278)
War Hydra (175)
----
2498 points, 124 models

So far I have great experiences with putting the BSB on the PoK Master, seems to almost be more effective than the Crown of Command Dreadlord:
1. Ensured re-rolls, even Ld10 has an 8,3% chance of failing.
2. +1 Combat res from the Banner means that losing combats by more than 1 is rare.

C&C is welcome

[Falstaff]

I feel your Dl is a bit weak. I guess you'll put him with the asf banner and the BG, which us kind of a waste, considering the BG always rerolls anyways.

[xFallenx]

The way to enlightenment is to break out of the known and try something you may not otherwise try.

I think at worst your DL may need an overhaul. He's completely dependent on the Standard bringing his points cost to 276 & I feel that for that price you can get something much better.
A peggy will improve his T for starters, which I think is a bit more resilient in the long run, as well as fly & impale.
A CO gives +2 AS with only a negligible hit to movement, stupidity in this case is also pretty well negated by a saucy LD, as well as fear.
You have Knights as well as a Peggy Master, so both would be viable.

Either way, give this a run and see how you feel afterword’s, I know I'd be interested in hearing what you've learned.

[Dunya]

Thanks for the replies.

Yeah the Dreadlord is sort of the experimental part of the list, I like the idea of him chopping up the real dangerous stuff when mindrazor isn't at hand, but we'll see. Hag Graef still is neat enough against High Elves, but it is still all about the DL. Could prossibly find the points for a Whip of Agony champion in the unit though, would make for a real meatgrinder unit.

A peggy will improve his T for starters, which I think is a bit more resilient in the long run, as well as fly & impale.
A CO gives +2 AS with only a negligible hit to movement, stupidity in this case is also pretty well negated by a saucy LD, as well as fear.
You have Knights as well as a Peggy Master, so both would be viable.

I agree with your reasoning, but having already spent the PoK I feel like a mounted DL is either going to be too vulnerable, or not killy enough. The Exec Axe is really the only reason I'm bringing the Dreadlord, and sadly that only works on foot.

Again, thank for the input

[Omnichron]

I'd say the dreadlord is a very strong part of the list... it's just that he need defenses against some certain type of magic, and should have the potion of speed in case you meet bloodthirster or characters with high initiative.

As said from the others, he is very dependent on the BG unit, so I'd consider fitting a CoB in the list so you get a 5+ ward on them and maybe even get the lodestone/null talismans for MR... although as you don't wnat the CoB, I guess you're going to have that "weakness" to the unit.

Also, using harpies or shades as screen, you can take little missile damage on the unit and get them into close combat to do some real heavy damage.

The ASF banner isn't a waste of course as the BG unit is there to make the lord work. However, you could also try a BSB with ASF and have both in a corsair unit with SSS banner

Other than that, I'd consider having the whip of agony on a cold one champion

[Falstaff]

Why not run the BG on their own and put the DL along with an asf-bsb with the Spears? The Spearelves profit from the asf and the BG is good enough on its own.

I had a Spearstar list in this forum that went for that kind of setting

[Setomidor]

Hi!

Interesting, I posted a discussion on this kind of armies just about a week ago (can be found here.

I agree with what Omnichron et al. already said about the CoB, for me the 5++ on the otherwise rather unprotected Lord is really a must-have. Also, some opponents will know what you're doing, and those BGs will be shot to smithereens.

I also agree with your own assessment on the Lord and ASF banner; I really (REALLY) like the fact that I can ward off Monstrous Cav without relying on Shadow magic. ASF on Black Guard is sometimes wasted, but every now and then you're up against ASF (High Elves, Daemonettes, tooled up characters), and then they really shine. I prefer them over the Noble BSB because he seems awfully easy to kill compared to 20 Black Guard.

For your specific army:
- Lose the Hydra: It's going to be the only thing in your army that the enemy want to kill with a cannon/pit/flaming shooting/purple sun.
- Get a CoB: the 5++ is essential
- Get another Harpy unit: One is too few

I've managed to get six games in with my list so far -- still undefeated!

[Dunya]

Some MR for the BG sounds like a really good idea, now that I think about it. Potion of Speed is also a great idea. In regards to shooting I will mostly be relying on cover from other units or terrain against BS based shooting and reform to wide formations against templates. I'm still not convinced about bringing the CoB if it isn't going to act as the BSB, sure 5+ ward is strong, but 200 points is quite alot. The idea is not to make a BG-Bomb list, but to have several strong tools available, and to have units with attrition rates that aren't horrible without magical support.

I'll see if I can't rearrange things a bit to include the potion of speed and some MR. Thanks for the advice.

Hi!

Interesting, I posted a discussion on this kind of armies just about a week ago (can be found here.

I agree with what Omnichron et al. already said about the CoB, for me the 5++ on the otherwise rather unprotected Lord is really a must-have. Also, some opponents will know what you're doing, and those BGs will be shot to smithereens.

I guess you could call it a personal "playstyle" or whatever, but I do like my lists to have a certain number of hammer/anvil units, and thats why I'm reluctant to go for the sort of army you've posted, though I'm sure it works just fine. Returing to my idea of an army with units that aren't overly dependant on other parts of the list. In regards to the DL's defenses, I guess you could say that his offense is his defense, in many cases he will one-shot big scary things in close combat, and otherwise his 1+ save means he isn't completly vulnerable to a reprise.

[Red...]

Looks like a fun list. Now take it to the next level and drop ether pregnant from your bsb. Give him the armour of eternal servitude instead. It's nearly as good and not half as cheesy.

[Dunya]

Allright, so had some fun with this today, and I have to say I quite like the flavor that a strong unit like the BG adds, as opposed to everything being about the magic phase. So I toyed around a bit more and came up with this:

Dreadlord (General) - Blood Armor, Executioners Axe (225)
Supreme Sorceress - Level 4, Lifetaker, Dispel Scroll, Lore of Shadow (315)
Master - Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Great Weapon, Dragonhelm, Pendant of Khaeleth (187)
Master - Cold One, Lance, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Heavy Armor, Battle Standard Bearer, Hydra Banner (214)
15 Repeater Crossbowmen - Musician, Champion, Shields (175)
16 Repeater Crossbowmen - Musician, Shields (181)
34 Warriors - Standard Bearer, Musician, Shields, Banner of Murder (272)
5 Harpies (55)
20 Black Guard - Full Command, Banner of Hag Graef, Soulrender (345)
11 Cold One Knights - Musician, Champion, Whip of Agony (346)
War Hydra (175)
----
2500 points, 109 models

Between the CoK and the BG this should give the army quite a bite to it, though I honestly don't know how viable it is. Funny thing is that both units come in at around the same points value, feel like I should almost keep track of their exploits and have them compete against eachother.

[A.andersson]

seems like a great list to me! have you conisdered a more damadge dealing lore (death, dark, fire) to force some armies and opponents to feel the heat from turn one?
I think that wenever i play this kind of list on a tourney, some armies just redirects and pick their fights to easy if I dont force them into a fight.
looks really solid otherwise!

[Dunya]

Thanks, and yes I am considering changing lore to either Dark or Fire, but I'd like to give it a try with Shadow first, should still be a strong choice I think. Would be nice to have more tools to clear chaff with, but Lifetaker does that quite well already.

Funny thing about this list is that its almost an exact copy of the list I was running towards the end of 7th ed., the units were a little smaller then, but the frame of the army is almost identical. Guess since the arrival of 8th I've been putting so much empathy on the magic phase, that it became a case of using an army that won games though the magic phase, rather than using magic to bolster an already strong army.

[Dunya]

Ok, so in keeping in the spirit of adding flavor to the army, I'll take Red's advice and trade the PoK Master for a Lv 2 Dark, PoK, ToF, Peggy. Should make me a little less defensive in the magic phase and still give me the option of holding up high-str units with the Sorc.

Dreadlord (General) - Blood Armor, Executioners Axe (225)
Supreme Sorceress - Level 4, Dispel Scroll, Lore of Shadow (285)
Sorceress - Level 2, Dark Magic, Dark Pegasus, Tome of Furion, Pendant of Khaeleth (235)
Master - Cold One, Lance, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Heavy Armor, Battle Standard Bearer, Hydra Banner (214)
15 Repeater Crossbowmen - Musician, Shields (170)
15 Repeater Crossbowmen - Musician, Shields (170)
35 Warriors - Full Command, Shields, Banner of Murder (285)
5 Harpies (55)
20 Black Guard - Full Command, Banner of Hag Graef, Whip of Agony (355)
11 Cold One Knights - Musician, Champion (321)
War Hydra (175)
----
2500 points, 109 models