Hi Guys,
I am currently trying to iron out what I would like to take to a series of tournaments later this year, I currently have no models all my games so far have been using proxies or games online via Battle Chronicler so not a lot that NEEDS to stay.
Lately the Meta game includes a lot of both Regenerating threats and High Armour Save as well as magical defence.
Here is what I am thinking (Daeron the Supreme Sorceress build has been taken from you looking at what she can bring to the table with Soulstealer she looks like she can stay around for a long while)
High Sorceress - 400
Level 4, Lore of Dark Magic, Dark Pegasus, Dispel Scroll, Pendant of Khaeleth, Black Dragon Egg
Hag Queen - 225
Cauldron of Blood, Battle Standard Bearer
30 Corsairs - 340
Additional Hand Weapons, Musician, Standard Bearer, Sea Serpent Standard
5 Dark Riders - 117
Musician, Repeater Crossbows
5 Dark Riders - 117
Musician, Repeater Crossbows
5 Dark Riders - 92
Musician
20 Black Guard - 306
Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Murder
18 Black Guard - 265
Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Eternal Flame
21 Witch Elves - 225
Musician, Standard Bearer
9 Shades - 153
Additonal Hand Weapons
9 Shades - 153
Additonal Hand Weapons
Since I have been tweaking things here and there could you give me your concerns about the list and any potential difficulties that you think I could face (i.e. RegenGutstar, ect)
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Daeron
- Malekith's Best Friend
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Hmmm... I'm impressed to see 4 combat blocks and still see such support, but I might be tempted to cut it down to three to beef them up a bit. In spite of the care taken, I fear metal and monsters are still dangerous opponents. Soulstealer is good against a cavalry unit, but limited against monsters and monstrous cavalry. How would this army take down a Hydra or Steam Tank, for example?
Perhaps a level 1 Metal Sorceress can save the day here?
If you stick to Dark Magic, which is absolutely fine, I'd take 1 Metal Sorc either level 1 or level 2 with ToF. For that I'd drop 1 either the 18 BG unit or the 21 WE unit. I'd use remaining points to beef up the combat unit you didn't drop and perhaps score a unit of harpies.
Perhaps a level 1 Metal Sorceress can save the day here?
If you stick to Dark Magic, which is absolutely fine, I'd take 1 Metal Sorc either level 1 or level 2 with ToF. For that I'd drop 1 either the 18 BG unit or the 21 WE unit. I'd use remaining points to beef up the combat unit you didn't drop and perhaps score a unit of harpies.
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"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
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Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
I figure that the 18 Black Guard with Flaming could contest a building and/or take down a Hydra/Abomb ect but I see your point regarding the MC.
I am unsold on the Witches, since I am not planning on taking Shadow but poison works really well against Ogres..... I keep going round in circles against this unit.
In one of the many initial drafts I have a level 1 on Dark Pegasus with Tomb of Furion and Ruby Ring but felt that I didn't have enough bodies on the table with this caster in the list, I guess I could tone her down a bit and use her instead of one of the units of shades
I am unsold on the Witches, since I am not planning on taking Shadow but poison works really well against Ogres..... I keep going round in circles against this unit.
In one of the many initial drafts I have a level 1 on Dark Pegasus with Tomb of Furion and Ruby Ring but felt that I didn't have enough bodies on the table with this caster in the list, I guess I could tone her down a bit and use her instead of one of the units of shades
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Hey Miasma 
Looks good but I have a few suggestions, take them or leave them.
Magic I really like Dark Magic with this list, it is especially effective against expensive S4-/T3 units, allowing your units (with plenty of other support) to win the fight.
I would recommend taking focus familiar though, the 18" range and potential for different lines of sight allows you to get all of your spells targeting the unit you need to, or allowing you to hide from a threat and still cast. Being able to cast more spells at the most dangerous targets will mean whatever gets through is worthwhile.
I echo Daeron's call for a metal mage. An effective option could be : lv.1 Metal - Dispel Scroll for a measly 125 points. This signature spell is one of the most powerful in the lore to dominate those high AS/ regen targets. On top of this the extra Power of Darkness and channels may give you the magical edge you need.
Overall Your list is cohesive, and pretty tailored for your meta. You have flaming attacks, a cauldron, magic and armour piercing rxbs to push through regen and/or armour save. Similiarly other armies are likely to be tailored to kill regen and high AS, and you have none of the above!
Witch Elves/Black Guard In my experience the flaming banner goes better on witch elves. This allows them to really dominate assaulting a building (e.g. Wachtower scenario) with re-roll to wound as infantry toughness is rarely above 4. If you want to squeeze points, you can get away with reducing witch elves to ~14 models as they are still effective in combat with just a front rank.
A bit of a long shot - while I like black guard in general, you could replace both units with a Hag BSB w/ Hag Graef Executioner horde. This would give a real sting to the army: you can clear up just about anything in a round of combat, without losing many models. Red has a great thread on their advantages and disadvantages if you'd like further reading
Good luck!
Looks good but I have a few suggestions, take them or leave them.
Magic I really like Dark Magic with this list, it is especially effective against expensive S4-/T3 units, allowing your units (with plenty of other support) to win the fight.
I would recommend taking focus familiar though, the 18" range and potential for different lines of sight allows you to get all of your spells targeting the unit you need to, or allowing you to hide from a threat and still cast. Being able to cast more spells at the most dangerous targets will mean whatever gets through is worthwhile.
I echo Daeron's call for a metal mage. An effective option could be : lv.1 Metal - Dispel Scroll for a measly 125 points. This signature spell is one of the most powerful in the lore to dominate those high AS/ regen targets. On top of this the extra Power of Darkness and channels may give you the magical edge you need.
Overall Your list is cohesive, and pretty tailored for your meta. You have flaming attacks, a cauldron, magic and armour piercing rxbs to push through regen and/or armour save. Similiarly other armies are likely to be tailored to kill regen and high AS, and you have none of the above!
Witch Elves/Black Guard In my experience the flaming banner goes better on witch elves. This allows them to really dominate assaulting a building (e.g. Wachtower scenario) with re-roll to wound as infantry toughness is rarely above 4. If you want to squeeze points, you can get away with reducing witch elves to ~14 models as they are still effective in combat with just a front rank.
A bit of a long shot - while I like black guard in general, you could replace both units with a Hag BSB w/ Hag Graef Executioner horde. This would give a real sting to the army: you can clear up just about anything in a round of combat, without losing many models. Red has a great thread on their advantages and disadvantages if you'd like further reading
Good luck!
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Kargan daemonclaw
- Highborn
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Ok so I'll move BoEF onto the witches and drop the small unit of Black Guard in favour of a level 1 metal mage with dispel scroll. Put the focus familiar onto the level 4 and add in two units of 5 harpies. Whatever points left can go into the witchs about 3 more IIRC.
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Total Roster Cost 2392 Points
High Sorceress - 400
Level 4, Lore of Dark Magic, Dark Pegasus, Focus Familiar, Pendant of Khaeleth, Black Dragon Egg
Hag Queen - 225
Cauldron of Blood, Battle Standard Bearer
Sorceress - 115
Level 1, Lore of Metal, Tomb of Furion
30 Corsairs - 340
Additional Hand Weapons, Musician, Standard Bearer, Sea Serpent Standard
15 Repeater Crossbows - 155
Musician
5 Dark Riders - 117
Musician, Repeater Crossbows
5 Dark Riders - 117
Musician, Repeater Crossbows
5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55
20 Black Guard - 306
Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Murder
21 Witch Elves - 235
Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Eternal Flame
8 Shades - 136
Additonal Hand Weapons
8 Shades - 136
Additonal Hand Weapons
High Sorceress - 400
Level 4, Lore of Dark Magic, Dark Pegasus, Focus Familiar, Pendant of Khaeleth, Black Dragon Egg
Hag Queen - 225
Cauldron of Blood, Battle Standard Bearer
Sorceress - 115
Level 1, Lore of Metal, Tomb of Furion
30 Corsairs - 340
Additional Hand Weapons, Musician, Standard Bearer, Sea Serpent Standard
15 Repeater Crossbows - 155
Musician
5 Dark Riders - 117
Musician, Repeater Crossbows
5 Dark Riders - 117
Musician, Repeater Crossbows
5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55
20 Black Guard - 306
Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Murder
21 Witch Elves - 235
Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Eternal Flame
8 Shades - 136
Additonal Hand Weapons
8 Shades - 136
Additonal Hand Weapons
2013 Tournament Results
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Druchiishootlord
- Malekith's Best Friend
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What are the plans for the RXB? They seem a tad out of place in this army? I mean all of your shooting is so far ahead of the rest of the army. While they're surely some help, maybe a 3rd unit of Dark Riders with RXB/Musc and you can then flesh out the lvl 1 to a lvl 2 and take a Dispel Scroll for a little magic defense.
Another thought may be a unit of 20 Spears with Full Command. You have a cheap unit that can hold a building. You also have a place to hide your Sorceress in case she gets plucked off her flying horse early in the game.
Character wise, what is the purpose of the Eggs? The Lifetaker would make a good option. It has the potential to do less damage but you don't have to make two to-hit rolls then a wounding roll. The Lifetaker allows you a steadier damage output and you can generally out-reach most things. It is also S4.
Another thought may be a unit of 20 Spears with Full Command. You have a cheap unit that can hold a building. You also have a place to hide your Sorceress in case she gets plucked off her flying horse early in the game.
Character wise, what is the purpose of the Eggs? The Lifetaker would make a good option. It has the potential to do less damage but you don't have to make two to-hit rolls then a wounding roll. The Lifetaker allows you a steadier damage output and you can generally out-reach most things. It is also S4.
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Daeron
- Malekith's Best Friend
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Hm, I do like that army list. Close to my own style. You could drop the RxBs on the DR's and use the points for a shade in each unit and bumping the RxB unit to 18. That's a good support unit.
Do be czreful with the over-investment in chaff though. I like to keep a fair amount myself, but from what I hear about tournaments, it's quite possible for someone to just shoot/blast/fight all your chaff away and deny you VPs on anything else. From hear-say that's the achiles heel of Shades and why they aren't used to great extent on tournaments. But a lot depends on the meta I suppose. Thus far, no opponent of mine has succeeded without effort in removing the shades. They always delivered... Thusfar.
Do be czreful with the over-investment in chaff though. I like to keep a fair amount myself, but from what I hear about tournaments, it's quite possible for someone to just shoot/blast/fight all your chaff away and deny you VPs on anything else. From hear-say that's the achiles heel of Shades and why they aren't used to great extent on tournaments. But a lot depends on the meta I suppose. Thus far, no opponent of mine has succeeded without effort in removing the shades. They always delivered... Thusfar.
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.
Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.
"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze