2500 Tourney List - First Try

[Adsvampire]

This army is based mostly upon what I can actually field now or soon.


High Beastmaster (General) - Manticore (Ironhard Skin, Blind Rage), Light Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Spear, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Cloak of Twilight = 425

Death Hag - 2 Hand Weapons, BSB, Cauldron of Blood = 300
Sorceress - lvl 2 (Dark), Dispel Scroll, Dark Steed = 150

33 Witch Elves - 2 Hand Weapons, Full Command, Banner of Swiftness = 408
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110

Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
War Hydra = 160
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115

5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
Kharibdyss = 160

Total = 425 + 450 + 628 + 710 + 285 = 2498

So, the army is a bit of Khainites meet monsters ... with some shooting. I figure the Beastmaster can ride around on his Manticore and provide Ld and maybe extra attacks to the multi-headed monsters. The chariots and RBTs support the WEs by clearing chaff. The riders, sorceress and warlocks support everyone else. I'm thinking I may replace the sorceress with another unit of warlocks ... not sure if I can get by without the scroll.

Comments or suggestions are welcome.

[Adsvampire]

How about this change:

This army is based mostly upon what I can actually field now or soon.


High Beastmaster (General) - Manticore (Ironhard Skin, Blind Rage), Light Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Spear, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Cloak of Twilight, Potion of Foolhardiness = 430

Death Hag - 2 Hand Weapons, BSB, Cauldron of Blood = 300


33 Witch Elves - 2 Hand Weapons, Full Command, Banner of Swiftness = 408
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110

Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115

5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
Kharibdyss = 160

Total = 430 + 300 + 628 + 730 + 410 = 2498

I modified the army by dropping the sorceress and adding a second unit of Warlocks, breathe on the second hydra, and a po. of Foolhardiness on the Beastmaster.

[Nightmare84]

I quite like it.

Do you think you will struggle against armies with multiple blocks though? You only have 1 block of your own to counter with

[HERO]

I would drop 3x Witches and Swift for Razor Standard on them.

[Shadoer]

I would drop 3x Witches and Swift for Razor Standard on them.

I disagree, the Armor Piercing isn't going to help the Witches that much, but I agree that the Banner of Swiftness isn't a great choice on them.

Both the Banner of Eternal Flame (Flaming Attacks) and the Standard of Discipline will help the witches a lot more than the Banner of Swiftness. Flaming attacks will go a long way to help against troublesome regeneration monsters while the Standard of Discipline will help pass those Frenzy control checks.

[HERO]

I would drop 3x Witches and Swift for Razor Standard on them.

I disagree, the Armor Piercing isn't going to help the Witches that much, but I agree that the Banner of Swiftness isn't a great choice on them.

Both the Banner of Eternal Flame (Flaming Attacks) and the Standard of Discipline will help the witches a lot more than the Banner of Swiftness. Flaming attacks will go a long way to help against troublesome regeneration monsters while the Standard of Discipline will help pass those Frenzy control checks.

lol
You want the AP banner.
Without AP, you risk being tanked by armor very easily. You force enough wounds on high T regen monsters that they'll be crazy to charge a Witch unit. Flaming is typically very poor on a combat unit since you can be tanked by 2+ fire ward heroes, or Dragon Princes.

[Omnichron]

Fire banner is a good option as long as you make sure those with 2++ against flaming won't get into them.

There are lots of regen units/monsters to be found, and the WE having the flaming banner means you can deal with such things swiftly and quite easily. AP banner doesn't do much against things with 1+ armor anyways... even though I am torn between the two as I want AP on my WE as well.

Also, please watch the tone... I'd find a "lol " to be a quite unfriendly answer.

[islands]

There are lots of regen units/monsters to be found, and the WE having the flaming banner means you can deal with such things swiftly and quite easily. AP banner doesn't do much against things with 1+ armor anyways... even though I am torn between the two as I want AP on my WE as well.

You can get both razor and flaming if you want. flaming on the witch elf unit and razor on a death hag for example

[Adsvampire]

Thanks for the advice people! OK, so here are the changes:

High Beastmaster (General) - Manticore (Ironhard Skin, Blind Rage), Light Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Spear, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Cloak of Twilight = 425

Death Hag - BSB, 2 Hand Weapons, Cauldron of Blood, Banner of Eternal Flame = 310


30 Witch Elves - 2 Hand Weapons, Full Command, Razor Standard = 405
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110

Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115

5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
Kharibdyss = 160

Total = 425 + 310 + 625 + 730 + 410 = 2500

I dropped 3 witch elves, the banner of swiftness, and the potion of foolhardiness for the banner of eternal flame and razor standard. Best of both worlds it appears. I should be able to eliminate characters with a flaming ward save with my highly mobile monsters or doom bolts ... at least that is the plan. I have no magic weapons and a bit of vulnerability to shooting though. Meh, the army still looks pretty fun IMHO.

[Adsvampire]

Game #1 DE vs LM

I got a game in with this list:

High Beastmaster (General) - Manticore (Ironhard Skin, Blind Rage), Light Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Spear, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Cloak of Twilight = 425

Death Hag - BSB, 2 Hand Weapons, Cauldron of Blood, Banner of Eternal Flame = 310


30 Witch Elves - 2 Hand Weapons, Full Command, Razor Standard = 405
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110

Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115

5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
Kharibdyss = 160

Total = 425 + 310 + 625 + 730 + 410 = 2500


vs

Oldblood - Talisman of Preservation, Other Trickster's Shard, GW, LA, Sh

Sar-Veteran - BSB, LA, Sh, Talisman of Endurance, Sword of Might
Skink Priest - lvl 2 (Beasts), Cube of Darkness
Skink Priest - lvl 2 (Beasts), Dispel Scroll
Skink Priest - lvl 1 (Heavens), Scroll of Shielding

29 Saurus - Sh, FC
10 Skink Skirmishers - Blowpipe
10 Skink Skirmishers - Blowpipe
11 Skink Skirmishers - Sh, Javelin
11 Skink Skirmishers - Sh, Javelin

2 Jungle Swarms
8 Kroxigors - GW
8 Kroxigors - GW
3 Terradons - Javelin

Salamander
Salamander

The game went very well for the DE with the witch elves and a chariot destroying a unit of kroxigors. The dark riders and bolt throwers kept the skinks in check. One of the hydras killed the LM BSB and died in return ... getting wounds back doesn't work if the model is dead. Later the beastmaster killed the oldblood by sneaking a single wound through his defences and then multiplying it to 3 (the BM got charged but still offed the oldblood in the first round). The Karybdiss never saw combat .

So, everything worked fairly well I guess. I tried to get a soulblight through on the saurus when I double breathed but could not get past the LM double scroll. The LM army lacked any real ranged threat so I was able to dance around and wait for opportunities. I still need to play a few games to see if anything needs to be tweaked.

[Adsvampire]

I got another game in with army (no changes):

High Beastmaster (General) - Manticore (Ironhard Skin, Blind Rage), Light Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Spear, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Cloak of Twilight = 425

Death Hag - BSB, 2 Hand Weapons, Cauldron of Blood, Banner of Eternal Flame = 310


30 Witch Elves - 2 Hand Weapons, Full Command, Razor Standard = 405
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110

Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115

5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
Kharibdyss = 160

Total = 425 + 310 + 625 + 730 + 410 = 2500


vs


VC

Strigoi Ghoul King - lvl 1 (vampires), Aura of Dark Majesty, Beguile, Curse of the Revenant, Skabscrath, Dragonbane Gem, The Other Trickster's Shard

Vampire - lvl 2 (Vampires) BSB, HA, Sh, The Cursed Book, Seed of Rebirth, Fear Incarnate
Necromancer - lvl 2 (Vampires), Book of Arkhan
Tomb Banshee
Tomb Banshee

40 Ghouls - C
23 Zombies - S + M
20 Zombies - S + M
20 Zombies - S + M

8 Crypt Horrors
2 Bat Swarms
2 Fell Bats
2 Fell Bats
2 Fell Bats

Mortis Engine - Blasphemous Tome
Mortis Engine


The VC castled in one corner and walked forward from there using a piece of impassable terrain to help guard their open flank. My shooting, Dark Riders, and Warlocks handled some bats and zombies used to dely them. A large comabt started in the "center" between the ghouls with King, BSB, and both banshees vs my chariots and WEs. The WEs won the first round which allowed the crypt horrors to join in. Screams took out a chariot and the king finished the other. The vc BSB was killed by the Death Hag and the banshees were placed to nullify some WE attacks. A hydra charged the horrors and the BM on Manti charged into the king. The ensuing combat saw all of the remining ghouls killed along with the Ghoul King when the Manti survived his attacks and lopped his head off. And that was the game. The other hydra and K-Beast took out some bats.


So, things are still going well for this build but I haven't faced any real power armies so we shall see. I must say though, I really do appreciate having no character wizards (Warlocks are awesome IMHO) and having an 18" Stand Your Ground and Inspiring Presence ranges due to both the BSB and General being on Large Targets.

[Hyetemplar]

How are your Hag and CoB surviving? Do your opponents not direct attacks or magic into them?!

[Adsvampire]

So far the CoB and unit have only seen a few rounds of combat. Mostly the WEs butcher the majority of the enemy unit before return attacks come in.

The vampires and lizards did not have any snipes so magic attacks was not a factor.

[Adsvampire]

Game #3 - I used the same list vs this HE army:

Loremaster - lvl 2, HA, GW, Talisman of Preservation, Book of Hoeth

Noble - BSB, DA, Sh, Halberd, Reaver Bow, Po. Strength, Luckstone

28 Lothern Seaguard - LA, Sh, Spear, Bow, S + M
5 Silver Helms - Barded Steed, HA, Sh, Lance
5 Silver Helms - Barded Steed, HA, Sh, Lance
5 Ellyrian Reavers - LA, Steed, Spear, M

28 White Lions - HA, LC, GW, FC, Banner of the World Dragon
5 Dragon Princes - Barded Steed, DA, Sh, Lance
5 Dragon Princes - Barded Steed, DA, Sh, Lance

Frostheart Phoenix
Great Eagle
Great Eagle
Eagleclaw Bolt Thrower
Eagleclaw Bolt Thrower
Eagleclaw Bolt Thrower
Eagleclaw Bolt Thrower


With that much shooting the warlocks only lasted until turn 4ish. The shooting also accounted for a unit of DRs and a hydra (with the help of a Spirit Leech). My BM and Manti dealt with a unit of Dragon Princes and later a unit of Silver Helms. The other hydra helped the WEs to beat an eagle and then overran into the White Lions ... he was slain before striking . The Kharibdyss fought the Frostheart Phoneix and even hit with ... 4 of 5 attacks ... almost. The frostheart broke and ran down the Kharibdyss. One CoC fought the other unit of Dragon Princes for the entire game with the chariot finishing with 3 wounds and the princes down to their last guy. The other CoC got charged by Silver Helms, broke and ran them down, charge the Seaguard with HE BSB, killed the BSB, and broke that unit as well ... but failed to run them down. An RBT then killed the CoC. The WEs were the stars though. They killed one eagle when it faile terror and was run down. The other eagle was beaten in combat and finally the White Lions were absolutely butchered by them. Oh, and they also killed the Loremaster.

Big win for the DEs.

So, I'm still not missing character wizards. I had so many targets I didn't need to worry about the shooting either. The army is continuing to work very well for me.

[Drek]

Nice to see the chariots in there. I found them to be awesome in the last edition, T5, 3+ and four wounds goes a long way.

Also good to hear about the Warlocks. 2 Warlocks + caster seems inefficient in the early game. However, late game it sounds like you have been leaving power dice on the table. I'm still not sure which way I will come down there.

How much of a liability is the +1 to hit on the Manti when you give him Blind Rage? T5 goes a long way...

[Adsvampire]

The Manti and rider's primary duty is to handle heavy cav and I typically get the charge. In that case I don't really worry about the +1 to be hit.

[Adsvampire]

Game #4 - Empire

I played the usual

vs

Arch Lector - War Altar of Sigmar, HA, GW, Charmed Shield, White Cloak of Ulric
Wizard Lord - lvl 4 (Light), Dispel Scroll, Obsidian Lodestone, Van Horstmann's Speculum

Captain - BSB, FPA, Sh, Dragon Helm, Dawnstone, Barded Steed

36 Halberdiers - LA, Halberd, S + M
D - 5 Archers - bow
D - 5 Archers - bow
5 Knights - FPA, Barded Steed, Sh, Lance
5 Knights - FPA, Barded Steed, Sh, Lance
5 Knights - FPA, Barded Steed, Sh, Lance

4 Demigryph Knights - Barding, FPA, Sh, Lance, Standard
4 Demigryph Knights - Barding, FPA, Sh, Lance, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame
Great Cannon
Mortar

Celestial Hurricanum
Steam Tank


Ouch, what a drubbing. The witches accounted for a unit of archers and the waraltar with Arch lector ... and alsmost a unit of knights. The Hydras caused a unit of demigryphs to flee the field but both died to knights and Demis. The stank went right for the Karybdiss but the Karybdiss never saw combat because it was the first thing cannoned off the field. The Death Hag ate a cannonball the following round which led to the Beastmaster getting run down by Demis when it lost combat by one. Anyway, I lost almost my entire army and only killed a small amount in return.

In this game I felt the vulnerability of my 2 characters to cannon fire. And, the enemy magic phase was brutal as units got Pha's or Speed to negate my re-rolls or make units harder to hit. I still don't plan to make any changes despite the game's outcome ... at least not yet. I don't think my army can beat this particular empire army unless I get lucky.

[Adsvampire]

Game #5 vs Warriors of Chaos

I tried a modified list:

Dreadlord (General) - Manticore (Ironhard Skin, Blind Rage), Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Shield, Dawnstone, Cloak of Twilight = 434

Death Hag - BSB, 2 Hand Weapons, Cauldron of Blood = 300


30 Witch Elves - 2 Hand Weapons, Full Command, Razor Standard = 405
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110

Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115

5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
Kharibdyss = 160

Total = 425 + 310 + 625 + 730 + 410 = 2500

vs.

Chaos Lord (General) - Mark of Tzeentch, Chaos Armor, Great Weapon, Disc of Tzeentch, Talisman of Preservation, Crown of Command, Scaled Skin = 313

Exalted Heor - BSB, Mark of Tzeeentch, Armor of Destiny, Barded Deamonic Steed, Great Weapon, Third Eye of Tzeentch, Soul Feeder = 274

Chaos Sorcerer - lvl 2 (Lore of Tzeentch), Mark of Tzeentch, Chaos Familiar, Chaos Armor, Barded Deamonic Steed, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Endurance = 270

18 Chaos Warriors - Mark of Nurgle, Chaos Armor, Halberd, FC = 372
Chaos Chariot - Mark of Khorne = 120
Chaos Chariot - Mark of Slaanesh = 115
5 Chaos Warhounds = 30
5 Chaos Warhounds = 30

Chaos Warshrine - Mark of Tzeentch = 135
5 Dragon Ogres - Light Armor, Great Weapon, Champ. = 350

Slaughterbrute - Extra Claws = 225
3 Skullcrushers - Mark of Khorne, Ensorcelled Weapons, FC = 264


My army list mods is that I replaced the BM with a DL with the same equipment except for the HA and Lance for higher S attacks on the charge.

Not the most powerful chaos army but still pretty tough. The game started with the Chaos army rushing toward me. I stayed put and tried to blast as much as possible. A hydra breathed on the Nurgle warriors killing 2. A doombolt put 4 wounds on the slaughterbrute and that was about it. I did charge the Dragon Ogres with both chariots and killed 2 outright. Both chariots took 2 wounds and the DOs held on a steadfast 7.

The following turn the chaos lord planted himself right in front of my witch elves and the skullcrushers moved up to lend assistance next turn whether or not my WEs charged. The DOs took a beating and lost another model but the remaining 2 destroyed both chariots. The nurgle warriors with BSB had charged my breathe hydra and did 4 wounds. The hydra killed several warriors and luckily held his ground.

My turn 2 and the DL charged the front of the Chaos Lord with the WEs coming into his flank (I wanted the chariot impact hits for help). Everyone else danced around. Magic and shooting accounted for a skull crushers and a wound or 2 on the dragon ogres. In combat my DL got one wound through the Chaos Lord's formidable defences and prompty rolled the necessary 3 wounds to see him off. The hydra died pretty quickly.

Turn 3 and the skullcrushers charged the front of the WEs with the Nurgle warriors going into their flank. The Khorne chariot charged my DL and the DOs charged a unit of DRs. The Slaughterbrute was now unbound and tried to move the 3" to get into contact with a unit of DRs ... he failed only going 2". Their BSB moved to the rear of the WEs and the shrine moved up for flanking support. Magic was uneventful except for a unit of warlocks losing their doombolt to glean magic. In combat the DOs beat the dark riders by 1 bit they held. The skullcrusher unit champ died to the Cauldron and the WE carved up a small amount of chaos. The WEs won by 1 but both units stayed. The chariot killed the Manticore and wounded the DL for 1 wound in return but the DL miraculously held.

My turn 3 and the Kharybdiss charged the flank of the chariot fighting the DL. Everyone else moved around. Magic and shooting accounted for the Slaanesh chariot. In combat the Kharydiss offed the Khorne chariot but failed by 1" to overrun into the chaos sorcerer. The WEs did a wound to the skullcrushers and killed some nurgle warriors. This time the combat was a draw and a couple WEs fell. The DO fight with the DR continued with the DR losing but sticking again.

Turn 4 and the Chaos BSB charged the rear of the WEs with the Shrine hitting their flank. The chaos sorcerer moved away and the slaughterbrute finally made it into contact with my other DRs. Magic was uneventful. In combat the BSB fought the Cauldron in a challenge. The remaining nurlge warriors and skullcrusher died to WE attacks. The combat ended in a lose for the WE as the shrine pumped out the pain in combi with the flank and rear charges. The DO finished off the DRs and the slaughterbrute ate the other DRs.

My turn 4 and a hydra and kharybdiss charged the flanks of the Shrine with the remainder of a Warlock unit into the shrines rear. I cast AoE Soulblight as well. My shooting finally dropped the final DOs and a doombolt dropped the slaughterbrute. I combat everything on the chaos warshrine completely bounced and I lost my BSB in a challenge with the Chaos BSB. WEs lose combat but stick ... only the kharybdiss breaks and flees.

Turn 5 and the chaos sorcerer charges the flank of my hydra and somehow blasts the kharybdiss for 4 wounds (I must be out of order here). I'll just skip to the end now. The main combat sees the Shrine take 4 wounds total and the BSB one but the Hydra breaks and is run down. The shrine kills off my warlocks. The chaos BSB and shrine grind out every WE, break the cauldron, and run it down to end the game.

The final score saw the DEs up by ~150 vps so maybe a win maybe not depending upon where you play.


The DL seems to have worked much better than the BM. Having S6 on the charge and one extra attack is pretty key for the Cloak of Twilight effects. Everything else worked out pretty well although I was sad that the Kharybdiss bounced off the warshrine. Not sure what I can do about those chaos characters though. I got lucky against the Chaos Lord and very unlucky against the chaos BSB who saved everything but the very last wound I put on him. So, my observations so far is that the army struggles against fast high armor targets ... nothing new there ... everyone does. I still don't miss having a character wizard. The army's monsters are OK but not as good as I would like them. The shooting is a bit meh as well.

[WithHatred]

Great battle reports enjoyed reading them! good to hear your thoughts on beast master vs dread lord on that manti.. not having the +d3 A on the manti isn't that big a loss? I'm defiantly going to try this out at some point soon

Reading all the battle reports on this forum makes me look that much more forward to my first battle(tomorrow) with the 8th ed dark elves!
I hope my witch elves will prove as awesome as so many others find them

[Adsvampire]

Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking of trying the following next:

Dreadlord (General) - Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Shield, Dawnstone, Cloak of Twilight = 289

Death Hag - BSB, 2 Hand Weapons, Cauldron of Blood = 300


30 Witch Elves - 2 Hand Weapons, Full Command, Razor Standard = 405
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110

Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115

5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
Kharibdyss = 160

Total = 289 + 310 + 625 + 870 + 410 = 2495

I dropped the Manticore for a Dark Pegasus and 2 RBTs. I found the Manticore to be an easier soirce of CR against the DL. I spend quite a bit on protection so why not take advantage of it with the Dark Pegasus. The RBTs also add some much needed shooting to the list. I should be able to dance around and set up charges a little longer now that I can threaten more with the xtra RBTs.

Comments and suggestions are welcome.

[Adsvampire]

I tried this list:

Dreadlord (General) - Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Shield, Dawnstone, Cloak of Twilight = 289

Death Hag - BSB, 2 Hand Weapons, Cauldron of Blood = 300


30 Witch Elves - 2 Hand Weapons, Full Command, Razor Standard = 405
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110

Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115

5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
Kharibdyss = 160

Total = 289 + 310 + 625 + 870 + 410 = 2495

vs

Slaughtermaster - lvl 4 (Maw), Armor of Destiny Great Weapon, Dispel Scroll

Bruiser - BSB, Heavy Armor, Great Weapon, Talisman of Preservation, Potion of Foolhardiness

9 Ironguts - Heavy Armor, Great Weapon, FC, Banner of Discipline
6 Ogres - Light Armor, Ironfist, FC

8 Maneaters - 6 * 2 Hand Weapons, 2 * Great Weapon, Standard (Scout, Stubborn)
8 Leadbelchers - Light Armor, Leadbelcher Gun, Musician, Champion
Sabretusk
Sabretusk
Sabretusk

Thundertusk - Chain Trap, Harpoon Launcher
Ironblaster

We played Blood and Glory so both sides started closer together with the DE actually winning the roll off for first turn. Everything advanced with both DR units blocking ogre units so that my monsters and warlocks could get into position to swarm or shoot. Magic was uneventful and shooting saw 3 wounds placed upon the Thundertusk and 2 on the Ironblaster.

Ogre turn 1 and a sabretusk planted itself right in front of my WEs ... drat ... maybe I should have shot them first instead of going for the Ironblaster and Thundertusk. The Ironguts charged on unit of DRs (which held) and the Maneaters charged another (witch also held). Ogre magic saw +1 S and Stubborn placed on the Leadbelchers. In shooting the belchers put 3 wounds on a hydra and the Ironblaster killed 3 WEs and put a wound on the Cauldron with the Death Hag escaping unscathed. In combat both DR units were massacred for little damage in return and the ogre units both reformed.

DE turn 2 and a hydra charged the front with warlocks into the flank of the Ironguts. My DL charged the Leadbelchers in a wood .. failed Dangerous Terrain and took wound . The WEs charged the sabretusk. I planted the other Warlocks in front of the Ironblaster in hopes of pulling a charge and hopefully not shooting the cauldron. Magic was uneventful again (because I don't remeber what happened). Shooting saw a sabretusk killed by and RBT and its friend panic and flee the field. The rest of my shooting went into the maneaters and caused a total of 1 wound. In combat the hydra on the Ironguts hit with 7 attacks and wounded with 1 ... :0 ... but his breathe weapon did 6 more. The warlocks and horses chipped in for 6 more wounds. The Ironguts killed 3 warlocks and failed to injure the hydra. The guts passed their break check. My DL hit with 3 attacks and wounded with all 3 but only did 4 wounds total. In return he took a wound thanks to the +1 S on the belchers. They passed their break check ... crap. The WE butchered the kitty and overran right in front of a big piece of impassable terrain ... ugh.

Ogre turn 2 and the Ironblaster dcided to charge my warlocks ... probably because the witches were out of position to be a threat next turn. The maneaters charged an RBT and the bulls charged a blocking hydra. Magic was uneventful. In combat my warlocks did a wound to the Ironblaster and were all butchered in return ... I was hoping to make more than 1 ward save, at least they did a wound and left the Ironblaster in the open for my RBTs to shoot at. The maneaters ate the RBT and overran a small amount. The hydra did some damage to the bulls but lost combat ... he stayed in place despite needing a re-rollable 5. My DL did a wound or two and stuck as well. The Ironguts did not fair well and all but 1 dropped. He killed a warlocks, broke and was run down. The hydra in that combat took a single wound.

DE turn 3 and my hydra charged the flank of the thundertusk. A chariot charged the flank of the maneaters and the other chariot and kharybdiss moved for a better positions. The WEs turned to join the battle. Magic saw a AoE Soulblight go up I believe. Shooting had no unengaged targets so all the RBTs moved away from everyone. In combat my DL again did a wound or 2 for none in return ... he held. My hydra flanking the Thundertusk learned why a Thundertusk is dangerous. He did no damage and took 3 wounds in return and barely passed his break check. The hydra on the buls was beaten down my the bruiser and slaughtermaster great weapons. My chariot killed 2 maneaters for 1 wound in return. The eaters held.

Ogre turn 3 and the Ironblaster charged the flank of the DL. The bulls with characters moved out of the charge arc of the WEs. Magic saw a AoE trollguts go up (regen for everyone within 12"). In combat the maneaters lost another model but passed their break check and passed their reform check this turn. They also did 2 more wounds to my chariot. My DL shrugged off all of the impact hts and ogre damage but did no damage in return. He again passed his break check. The Thundertusk dropped my hydra for no damage again.

DE turn 4. My remaining hydra and chariot both charged the front of the Bulls with characters. The WEs charged the Thundertusk but due to terrain and such only a single model made contact. In magic another AoE Soulblight went up. Shooting again had no targets as every ogre unit was engaged. In combat my DL again did a wound for none in return and passed his break check. My WEs did no damage to the Thundertusk and lost 7 witches. They lost combat and frenzy but did pass their reform check and got another model and the cauldron into contact. The chariot fighting the maneaters was beaten down ... darn. The hydra and chariot on the bulls did a ton of damage but only 4 wounds made it through regen ... the ogres passed 80%+ of their regen saves ... throughout the battle . The Kharybdiss took 3 wounds in return and both of my units held.

Ogre turn 4 and the maneaters charged an RBT, needed a 10 to make it and got it . Magic saw AoE Trollguts go up again. In combat the WEs did 2 wounds to the Thundertusk but learned that Thundertusks have 6 wounds as it passed its break check. The bulls killed the Kharybdiss and did 2 wounds to the chariot. The DE units killed an ogre as they again passed the vast majority of their regen saves. The chariot held. The DL did 3 wounds ... gasp ... to the leadbelchers for mone in return but both ogre units passed their break checks. The maneaters ate an RBT and overran off the field.

DE turn 5 and the RBTs moved. Magic saw AoE Soulblight go up I believe. In combat my chariot on the Bulls died. The Thundertusk also dropped. The leadbelchers and ironblaster again failed to get that last wound on my DL and he held in place doing just one himself thanks to regen saves.

Ogre turn 5 and the maneaters returned. The bulls moved away from the combats but still into BSB range. Magic again saw AoE Trollguts go up. In combat the DL still took no damage and held.

DE turn 6. The WE charged the bulls with characters which fled out of range and then redirected into the flank of the leadbelchers. Magic saw AoE soulblight go up again. Shooting saw my remaining 2 RBTs kill 2 maneaters but the last guy passed his panic check. In combat the WEs did a ton of damage but almost every wound was saved by regen ... 2 leadbelchers dropped and the DL did one as well. Both ogre units continued to go for the DLs last wound but failed. The leadbelchers broke and were run down by the WEs but the pursuit was into a wood. The Cauldron failed its dangerous terrain check and its ward save and took 5 wounds for total destruction. The ironblaster outpaced my DL on dark pegasus .

Ogre turn 6 and the bulls and Ironblaster both rallied. The lone maneater charged and ate another RBT. The slaughtermaster hit my DL with a bonecruncher and did the last wound to kill him.

Narrow loss for the DE.

What a close game. The DL is a tough nut to crack but he goes down if hit with no-armor save attacks. The WEs got boxed and did not do enough this game. My monsters did more than usual which is a very good thing. I think sacraficing both DR units early in the game was a bad move. Anyway, the army is shaping up. I still need more practice with deployment and moving the units. I often find myself blocking my RBT fire lanes or have monsters out of position.

On a side note, the DL on pegasus did exactly what I wanted. If he was riding a manticore he would have been killed much sooner IMHO. Bad luck with his charge damage rolls hurt but having nothing to move in and asist hurt even more. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed.

[Adsvampire]

I got another game in with this list:

Dreadlord (General) - Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Shield, Dawnstone, Cloak of Twilight = 289

Death Hag - BSB, 2 Hand Weapons, Cauldron of Blood = 300


30 Witch Elves - 2 Hand Weapons, Full Command, Razor Standard = 405
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110

Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115

5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
Kharibdyss = 160

Total = 289 + 310 + 625 + 870 + 410 = 2495

vs

Orc Warboss - Talisman of Preservation, Great Weapon, Light Armor, Dragon Helm, Potion of Foolhardiness = 181
Savage Orc Great Shaman - lvl 4, Lucky Shrunken Head, Obsidian Amulate = 285

Black Orc Big Boss - BSB, Armor of Silvered Steel, Dragonbane Gem, Armed to da Teef = 165

36 Savage Orc Big'Uns - 2 Hand Weapons, Big Stabbas, Full Command = 446
31 Night Goblins - Short Bow, Musician = 103
5 Goblin Wolf Riders - Light Armor, Spear, Shield, Giant Wolf, Musician = 70
5 Goblin Wolf Riders - Light Armor, Spear, Shield, Giant Wolf, Musician = 70

8 Trolls = 280
8 Trolls = 280

Doom Diver Catapult = 80
Doom Diver Catapult = 80
Rock Lobber = 85
Rock Lobber = 85
Arachnarok Spider - Spear, Shortbow = 290


I took 2 wounds on the DL in the first turn and that was the only scary moment. Everything else just ran over the O&G army. The witch elves were even flanked by the Savage Orc hoard with all characters. The Warboss died in a challenge before he could swing and the rest of the unit did enough wounds so that I passed the Ld 5 break check. At that point both troll units were dead. My DL, a hydra and chariot counter charged the SOs and deleted almost the entire unit before it could swing.

Crushing win for the Dark Elves.

We played a dawn attack and my superior speed and shooting left no doubt in my mind who was going to win bar a miracle. The DL survived the game and continued to prove why he is better than the manticore DL and beastmaster. I still don't miss character wizards or a dispel scroll. The 2 extra RBTs supplied a bit of help but largely did very little. I have no plans on changing the list as of yet and plan to get a few more games in.

[Adsvampire]

Game #8 - vs Lizardmen

I played this army:

Dreadlord (General) - Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Shield, Dawnstone, Cloak of Twilight = 289

Death Hag - BSB, 2 Hand Weapons, Cauldron of Blood = 300


30 Witch Elves - 2 Hand Weapons, Full Command, Razor Standard = 405
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110

Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115

5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
Kharibdyss = 160

Total = 289 + 310 + 625 + 870 + 410 = 2495

vs

Saurus OldBlood - Armor of Destiny, Crown of Command, Great Weapon

Saurus Scar-Veteran - BSB, LA, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Biting Blade
Tetto'Ekko
Skink Priest - lvl 2 (Beasts), Dispel Scroll

29 Saurus Warriors - Sh, FC
10 Skink Skirmishers - Javelin, Sh
10 Skink Skirmishers - Javelin, Sh
10 Skink Skirmishers - Blowpipe
10 Skink Skirmishers - Blowpipe

8 Kroxigors - Great Weapon
8 Kroxigors - Great Weapon
3 Terradons - Javelin
3 Terradons - Javelin

1 Salamander Hunting Pack
1 Salamander Hunting Pack


The game was not as one sided against the LM as last time. Tetto'Ekko did drop a good sized commet down that destroyed 3 RBTs and a unit of dark riders (because I forgot about the commet spot). I did have a nailbiter moment when the witches overran into the saurus warriors with both characters. I had Iceshard Blizzard and that spell that makes you re-roll sizes cast on my WE in the LM turn. I did kill the unit champ in a challenge with the cauldron and 1 other saurus but lost 5 WE in return. I lost combat but passed my Ld 5 break check. The following turn the DL and Kharybdiss hit both flanks. My DL yet again got a single wound through the Oldblood's defenses and rolled 3 wounds to one-shot the beast. The rest of my troops kept the skinks and such off my back-field.

Win for the DE.

[Adsvampire]

I've been thinking of the following changes:

Master (General) - Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Shield, Cloak of Twilight = 188
Death Hag - BSB, 2 Hand Weapons, Cauldron of Blood = 300

30 Witch Elves - 2 Hand Weapons, Full Command, Razor Standard = 405
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110

Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115

5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
Kharibdyss = 160
Kharibdyss = 160

Total = 0+ 498 + 625 + 800 + 570 = 2484


So, I replaced the dreadlord with a master. I'm a little leary about this, I like the Ld 10, extra A and extra point of WS, oh, and the re-rollable 1+ armor save. Replacing him nets me 101 pts. I dropped an RBT (since 4 does a little but not a lot) and got a second Kharybdiss. I still have 16 points to spend.

Comments and suggestions on the Master and what to spend the points on are welcome. And suggestion for use of the extra points is welcome as well.

[Adsvampire]

Game #9 vs VC

I played:

Dreadlord (General) - Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Shield, Dawnstone, Cloak of Twilight = 289

Death Hag - BSB, 2 Hand Weapons, Cauldron of Blood = 300


30 Witch Elves - 2 Hand Weapons, Full Command, Razor Standard = 405
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110

Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
Reaper Bolt Thrower = 70
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115

5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
Kharibdyss = 160

Total = 289 + 310 + 625 + 870 + 410 = 2495

vs

Strigoi Ghoul King - lvl 1 (Vampire), Red Fury, Beguile, Aura of Dark Majesty, Dread Knight, Ogre Blade, Dragonbane Gem, Book of Arkhan, The Other Trickster's Shard

Wight King - BSB, HA, Sh, Nightshroud, Ironcurse Icon
Mannfred the Acolyte

39 Ghouls - Ghast
30 Zombies - S + M
20 Zombies - S + M
5 Dire Wolves

8 rypt Horrors - C
2 Fell Bats
2 Fell Bats
2 Fell Bats

Mortis Engine - Blasphemous Tome
Mortis Engine

So, a variation on the previous VC army I played against. We played battle for the pass. I used the 4 RBTs early on to drop the ghouls to below half strength. The DL and witches eventually destroyed them with the WEs overrunning into a Mortis Engine. The VC countered with the ghoul king charging out of a unit of zombies into the witches and the king BSB with Mannfred charging in next to the engine (only a few WEs were in contact). The ghoul king killed the Death Hag but took 2 wounds in the process. The VC did actually win the combat but the WE passed their break check. The DL then charged into the front of the zombies. The next combat saw the DL kill Mannfred while thge Cauldron held off the ghoul king. The WE did just enough wounds to kill the ghoul king and mortis engine with CR.

Meanwhile, the crypt horros charged a hydra and failed to kill it on the charge (after it passed 6 of 9 5+ armor saves ). The hydra held and the following turn the other hydra charged the flank of the horrors along with a unit of warlocks. It took 3 rounds of combat but eventually the horrors passed on.

Big win for the DEs.


The WE unit just impresses me in every game. They just mow over everything. The warlocks did quite a bit this game as well with the use of Soulblight to weaken the ghouls which made shooting them up much easier. They also hit the ghoul king and horrors with Soulblights which made it a lot easier to defeat those units as well. I even had one turn where I cast 3 spells, all were irrestistable, and I lost 2 warlocks total ... it was epic ... I love the fact that IF does not mean the loss of power dice. The RBTs even did a bit this game as well. Having said that I must admit that they have been rather disappointing so far. However, I feel that if I remove them I will be left with a serious lack of ranged firepower.

Since the RBTs are lack-luster at best I'm considering the following change:

Dreadlord (General) - Dark Pegasus, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance, Shield, Dawnstone, Cloak of Twilight = 289

Death Hag - BSB, 2 Hand Weapons, Cry of War, Cauldron of Blood = 315

30 Witch Elves - 2 Hand Weapons, Full Command, Razor Standard = 405
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110
5 Dark Riders - Light Armor, Shield, Repeater Crossbow, Dark Steed, Musician = 110

8 Shades - Rxb, GW = 144
7 Shades - Rxb, GW = 126
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
War Hydra - Fiery Breathe = 180
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115
Cold One Chariot - Spear, Repeater Crossbow = 115

5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
5 Doomfire Warlocks - Dark Steed = 125
Kharibdyss = 160

Total = 289 + 315 + 625 + 860 + 410 = 2499

So, the 4 RBTs were dropped for 2 units of shades and Cry of War on the Death Hag. Not sure if this is a better setup but it does add more versatility since the shades can move, shoot, and fight. They should make for excellent chaff clearers.

Anyway, do people feel this is a good idea? And why or why not?