2500 pt GT list : The Return!

[BruceATL]

Hey all!
Longtime DE player but I have been gone since 7th edition. In fact, I just have three 8th games under my belt. So where better to get my feet truly wet than in a GT in two weeks?!? I will blame all my mistakes on old age and beer! Anyway here's my list for critique and any final tweaks are definitely appreciated.

The Return!

Dreadlord (1#, 252 pts)
1 Dreadlord, 157 pts = (base cost 140 + Heavy Armour 6 + Sea Dragon Cloak 8 + Shield 3)
1 Giant Blade, 60 pts
1 Dragonhelm, 10 pts
1 Dawnstone, 25 pts

Supreme Sorceress (1#, 310 pts)
1 Supreme Sorceress, 240 pts = (base cost 185 + Dark Steed 20 + Level 4 Upgrade 35)
1 Dispel Scroll, 25 pts
1 Talisman of Preservation, 45 pts

Death Hag (4#, 340 pts)
1 Death Hag (Battle Standard Bearer), 150 pts = (base cost 85 + Battle Standard Bearer 25 + Rune of Khaine 40)
1 Cauldron of Blood, 190 pts

Master (1#, 146 pts)
1 Master, 96 pts = (base cost 70 + Dark Steed 10 + Lance 4 + Heavy Armour 4 + Sea Dragon Cloak 6 + Shield 2)
1 Cloak of Twilight, 50 pts

Corsairs (35#, 415 pts)
34 Black Ark Corsairs, 394 pts = 34 * 11 (base cost 9 + Extra Hand Weapon 2) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Reaver, 21 pts = (base cost 19 + Extra Hand Weapon 2)

Witch Elves (32#, 427 pts)
31 Witch Elves, 361 pts = 31 * 11 (base cost 11) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Hag, 21 pts
1 Razor Standard, 45 pts

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders, 110 pts = 5 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders, 110 pts = 5 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
5 Doomfire Warlocks, 125 pts = 5 * 25

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
5 Doomfire Warlocks, 125 pts = 5 * 25

So the basic plan is to get rid of all the chaff/redirectors and main threats to my 2 big blocks. Big blocks kill stuff, more beer is had!

Small batrep here, but it shows some weaknesses I had versus a Slann lizardy list. I played Jeff's lizzies last night and had a bit of trouble with his Salamanders. 4 units of Fast Cav were not quite enough to wiggle round a bunch of poisony skinks but they took care of one at least and the other only fried a few WE's. Not much can take on the WE's with the Cauldron but his Temple guard could not flee and they got ate up. The Corsair unit with the Dreadlord and SS got tied up with a Saurus unit and despite winning combat, got stuck long enough for his other Saurus unit to flank the Corsairs. All my fast cav had finally been eliminated by poison shots or some Slann magic missles so the third block flanked and broke my corsairs, fortunately they run pretty fast and got away to be rallied on turn 6 so I still won the game but here's what I learned.

1) 4 chaff elimination units were not enough, so I have added the Master on Darksteed to bolster crap hunting and catch lone characters in the open. I like Darksteed instead of Pegasus cause the Darksteed cant get blown out from under him.
2) I was using Life lore on the SS but I have decided to switch to Death and get her on a mount. This helps with her avoiding combat and gives the threat of the Purple Nurple Vortex of Doom. Dwellers seems to give the sad face around here cause of the character death involved. Anyway, the real reason is this potentially gives me access to 3 Soulblight spells. A boosted Soulblight really multiplies the damage my Corsairs and Witches dish out while keeping them a little safer with the -1 str to the opponents units.
3) Warlocks are awesome! I converted 2 units of Darkriders into them as soon as I got the book. I might make more!
4) Bolt-throwers are meh. Well they were before, but I'll keep them for the Knights out there. I like they are cheaper now.

Possible variants that can go into the list if needed. 19 Black Guard, 1 Hydra, another Sorc, 16 Dread Shards, 5 Cold One knights, 2 Cold One Chariots, 5 shades, assassin, and Dude on a Manticore. I'm looking at making a Bloodwrack Shrine to do a Two Towers with my Corsairs but won't have time to make it, mebbe....

Any thoughts?

[BruceATL]

As an alternate list which goes back to the way I used to play in 6th and 7th, how bout this one?

Dreadlord (1#, 277 pts)
1 Dreadlord, 177 pts = (base cost 140 + Dark Steed 20 + Heavy Armour 6 + Sea Dragon Cloak 8 + Shield 3)
1 Giant Blade, 60 pts
1 Dragonhelm, 10 pts
1 Dawnstone, 25 pts
1 Potion of Foolhardiness, 5 pts

Supreme Sorceress (1#, 310 pts)
1 Supreme Sorceress, 240 pts = (base cost 185 + Dark Steed 20 + Level 4 Upgrade 35)
1 Dispel Scroll, 25 pts
1 Talisman of Preservation, 45 pts

Master (2#, 306 pts)
1 Master, 86 pts = (base cost 70 + Lance 4 + Heavy Armour 4 + Sea Dragon Cloak 6 + Shield 2)
1 Manticore, 170 pts = (base cost 150 + Iron Hard Skin 20)
1 Cloak of Twilight, 50 pts

Khainite Assassin (1#, 162 pts)
1 Khainite Assassin, 112 pts = (base cost 90 + Extra Hand Weapon 2 + Dark Venom 20)
1 Black Dragon Egg, 50 pts

Dark Riders (10#, 230 pts)
9 Dark Riders, 200 pts = 9 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Herald, 30 pts = (base cost 26 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1)

Doomfire Warlocks (10#, 260 pts)
9 Doomfire Warlocks, 225 pts = 9 * 25
1 Master of Warlock, 35 pts

Cold One Knights (5#, 180 pts)
4 Cold One Knights, 140 pts = 4 * 30 (base cost 30) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Dread Knight, 40 pts

Witch Elves (18#, 228 pts)
17 Witch Elves, 207 pts = 17 * 11 (base cost 11) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Hag, 21 pts

Corsairs (18#, 228 pts)
17 Black Ark Corsairs, 207 pts = 17 * 11 (base cost 9 + Extra Hand Weapon 2) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Reaver, 21 pts = (base cost 19 + Extra Hand Weapon 2)

Shades (5#, 100 pts)
4 Shades, 72 pts = 4 * 18 (base cost 16 + Extra Hand Weapon 2)
1 Bloodshade, 28 pts = (base cost 26 + Extra Hand Weapon 2)

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Harpies (5#, 75 pts)
5 Harpies, 75 pts = 5 * 15

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Tons of fast moving stuff and a MANTICORE!!!!! Yeah I know he'll get cannoned, shot, deathed, or swallowed by turn 2 but how fun could this be? The reason for all the command groups is because of Fortitude scenarios and capturing objectives. Is the assassin in the scouting shades legal?

[Dreadlord Veritas]

Hi there,

Notably, a Dark Pegasus makes the character unit type M. Cavalry, rather than a being a mounted monster. As such, the rules for M. Cav are used. (This means you use the higher T and W stat from the pair of models, and you can't shoot it out from under the master.)

Assassins in Scouting Shades is legal, in as far as I am aware. They meet all of the requirements Assassin infiltration requires.

Bolt Throwers are a definite include, given that they are very versatile and allow for quick chaff-elimination in a game where you are in a chaff-war.

I note that in list 1 you are on about 1000pts of core, when you could have been spending the extra (550ish) points on special or rare units. Have you considered replacing the corsairs with Executioners, Cold one Knights or Black Guard?

[T.D.]

I prefer a 4+ ward on my Dreadlord to the re-rollable 1+.

This is even more of an issue with the release of the new Wood Elves. Your general is very easy to snipe with arrows nevermind magic. If you want the 1+ re-rollable I'd switch to AoD/Dawnstone.

Also: I don't consider scouting assassin to be legal. In the absence of official FAQs no consensus has been formed on the issue.

[BruceATL]

Thanks guys! Holy crap about the Pegasus! Shows my inexperience with the new rules eh? Dark Pegasi all around! Well if I have the points that is....

@ TD, yeah I haven't played the new Woodies yet, I can switch the the Ogre Blade/ Black Amulet for him and only lose a bit of hitting power

I'll noodle with my Black Guard a bit. I'd love to get them in there but points are points.

[BruceATL]

So I noodled with changing out Corsairs with Black Guard and Cold One Knights and I got couple of good support units but they were a little expensive to bump up to combat blocks. So I went back to the Corsairs because they are cheaper and actually more resilient than BG. The problem was hitting power. With the General in there I was slowly winning combats but not decisively. So I fiddled with points and got the Bloodwrack Shrine for basically a chariot with funny rules that combo charges with a ranked unit. It also gives me a fake fifth rank when putting 2 corsairs on either side of the Shrine(as long as this is legal).

I got my speedy master an aerial upgrade to Pegasus, T4 and 3 wounds yay! Changed amount of WE's to go 7 wide and benefit from horde rule. Only 4 ranks deep so hopefully they can keep their flanks clear. So here is the revised list.

The Return 1.1: An Ark with Two Towers

Dreadlord (1#, 257 pts)
1 Dreadlord, 157 pts = (base cost 140 + Heavy Armour 6 + Sea Dragon Cloak 8 + Shield 3)
1 Ogre Blade, 40 pts
1 Black Amulet, 60 pts

Supreme Sorceress (1#, 310 pts)
1 Supreme Sorceress, 240 pts = (base cost 185 + Dark Steed 20 + Level 4 Upgrade 35)
1 Dispel Scroll, 25 pts
1 Talisman of Preservation, 45 pts

Death Hag (4#, 340 pts)
1 Death Hag (Battle Standard Bearer), 150 pts = (base cost 85 + Battle Standard Bearer 25 + Rune of Khaine 40)
1 Cauldron of Blood, 190 pts

Master (2#, 186 pts)
1 Master, 86 pts = (base cost 70 + Lance 4 + Heavy Armour 4 + Sea Dragon Cloak 6 + Shield 2)
1 Dark Pegasus, 50 pts
1 Cloak of Twilight, 50 pts

Witch Elves (28#, 383 pts)
27 Witch Elves, 317 pts = 27 * 11 (base cost 11) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Hag, 21 pts
1 Razor Standard, 45 pts

Corsairs (19#, 239 pts)
18 Black Ark Corsairs, 218 pts = 18 * 11 (base cost 9 + Extra Hand Weapon 2) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Reaver, 21 pts = (base cost 19 + Extra Hand Weapon 2)

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders, 110 pts = 5 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders, 110 pts = 5 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
5 Doomfire Warlocks, 125 pts = 5 * 25

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
5 Doomfire Warlocks, 125 pts = 5 * 25

Bloodwrack Shrine (1#, 175 pts)
1 Bloodwrack Shrine, 175 pts


So now cannons have two targets to go for! Thinking of setting up with a refused flank( L to R for now) in generic scenarios with DR's on one side with RBT's, focus firing any chaff that might lead the WE's on a merry chase. Middle cauldron( or sorta middle right) with Corsairs and Shrine to the right within 6" for cauldron rerolls. Doomfires escort the High Sorceress at first including Vanguard if allowed. Other Doomfires run tandem with the PegaMaster to the extreme right trying to get behind that flank. Basically like this:



Edit: changed WE's to 7X4 formation to get Horde rule. Those ladies have a fat ass!

[BruceATL]

Had a game with a 3000 point version of the above list. Pretty much just add 18 Black guard and 5 Cold One Knights. A fun and bloody game but he wound up the victor at 2200 to 1400. I lost my witches turn 2 to a block of 40 Graveguard with Vamp Lord and Wight BSB in horde formation. I only lost combat by 2 but he had Doom and Darkness on me as well as Soulblight and I just didn't get enough wounds. The corsair block with the Bloodwrack shrine did ok and busted up a couple of zombie units and finished off a skelly unit but they would have probably done that on their own. The MVP unit was the 18 Blackguard. They took out 2 fully ranked skellie bunkers and came back and finished off the Graveguard which the Vamp General vacated two turns earlier to take apart the Corsairs from the rear. A ballsy move since if the dice would have went badly he could have crumbled to CR. But it paid off, especially with some really timely Soulblights, I salvaged what I could.

So the BG gotta go in now. I've made a few mods so hopefully I'll get a game before next week to try it out. Here are the changes:
1) Corsairs and Shrine out, Black Guard in. BG just whip up on T3 support units, even T4 if I get a Soulblight off.
2) Lvl 4 downgraded to a Lvl 2 scroll caddy, I pretty much split my dice with the Warlocks spells so she is just extra inexpensive insurance.
3) PegaMaster out, Assassin in. I know Assassins are meh, but the armor negating possibility of killing blow is pretty decent for this cheap hero that is hidden so he can't be sniped. The lone hero totally failed on it's mission of taking out a Terrorgheist. Plus it saves points for:
4) Hydra and a unit of 12 Darkshards. Both are fire support and keep the enemy off the Witchelves flank. The BG handles the other side.

The Return 1.2: So what just fell out of my mini cabinet? Oh this!

Dreadlord (1#, 249 pts)
1 Dreadlord, 154 pts = (base cost 140 + Heavy Armour 6 + Sea Dragon Cloak
1 Giant Blade, 60 pts
1 Enchanted Shield, 5 pts
1 Talisman of Endurance, 30 pts

Sorceress (1#, 150 pts)
1 Sorceress, 125 pts = (base cost 80 + Dark Steed 10 + Level 2 Upgrade 35)
1 Dispel Scroll, 25 pts

Death Hag (4#, 340 pts)
1 Death Hag (Battle Standard Bearer), 150 pts = (base cost 85 + Battle Standard Bearer 25 + Rune of Khaine 40)
1 Cauldron of Blood, 190 pts

Khainite Assassin (1#, 132 pts)
1 Khainite Assassin, 112 pts = (base cost 90 + Extra Hand Weapon 2 + Dark Venom 20)
1 Potion of Strength, 20 pts

Witch Elves (28#, 383 pts)
27 Witch Elves, 317 pts = 27 * 11 (base cost 11) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Hag, 21 pts
1 Razor Standard, 45 pts

Darkshards (12#, 154 pts)
12 Darkshards, 154 pts = 12 * 12 (base cost 12) + Musician Mus 10

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders, 110 pts = 5 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders, 110 pts = 5 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10

Black Guard of Naggarond (18#, 300 pts)
17 Black Guard of Naggarond, 275 pts = 17 * 15 (base cost 15) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Tower Master, 25 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
5 Doomfire Warlocks, 125 pts = 5 * 25

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
5 Doomfire Warlocks, 125 pts = 5 * 25

War Hydra (1#, 180 pts)
1 War Hydra, 180 pts = (base cost 160 + Fiery Breath 20)

[Askador]

I would put your Dreadlord inside the Witches. So they can deal with Charakters. It also makes him reroll all wounds.

[Bigboar]

Why not a Karybdyss instead of as Hydra? you already have units with a lot of s3/s4 attacks, what you miss is high strengt unit to deal with 1+/2+ armour.

Also il you will face undeads I would put a magic weapon (even a cheap one) on the hag and/or the assassin so they can deal with ethereals.

[BruceATL]

Yeah I hear you on the Ethereals. He had two units of wight cav and they really bogged down my flankers. I'll prolly give the Sword of Might to my hag since the unit is running the razor standard. I like the hydra instead or the K- beast due to the shooting redundancy of the flame template. Since I will mostly be using one side of the table for my concentration of HTH, the other side needs enough ranged firepower to eliminate and/ or stall threats to flanks and my backfield. Also for Ethereals I'll have to really wait to put down my Doomfire Warlocks since they are the main counter with their Doombolts, if I can just roll more 6's.

@Askador - if I face that type of unit again, my Dread is definitely going in there. Since he was babysitting corsairs before the Black Guard do fine and sometimes better on their own. During the game I was thinking of some nasty tactics of blocking a bus with their flank and only giving him 2-3 models to hit on while maneuvering my witch elf block around to hit the bus in the flank. The cheapassassin is there for stupid crap, like charging out of the unit to take care of redirecting chaff when needed.

[T.D.]

Interesting feedback. Looking forward to seeing how your new list gets on!

[BruceATL]

I had two games today with a modified version of the list. First game was with Lee's TK's and went about as expected. The Witch Elves ate his army after the rest of my army got pummeled by chariots. Those chariots are a lot meaner than the last time I played them in 7th edition! Anyway, the BG evaporated in one turn after he made them T1 and charged them with 3 chariots! But he had no answer to the WE's and they finally got to his line and ate him.

My next game was with Casey and he was playing an experimental Chaos Mortal list with a couple of special characters, Galrauch and Throgg. The rest of his army was two big blocks of trolls, a unit of Dragon Ogres, and 5 Slaneesh marked chariots. One unit of marauders and dogs for fodder. This one did not go well. I positioned my SS poorly. He got a really long charge with the marauders and took her out fairly quickly. Since I was doing Shadow, my main way to get rid of those nasties went away. I got charges on 3 of his chariots with my fast cav but couldn't hurt them enough to make them run or I wiffed totally and he ate my guys, especially the Warlocks with their Slaneesh marked blades...

I did manage to get a charge on Throgg's unit and he and his trollkin went away, but he did his damage and the chariots, Dragon Ogres, and Dragon thing killed me to the last Druchii.... So I don't think I played him poorly, I just didn't have answers for his army. I don't really expect to face this in a tourney situation very often, but I did recognize my armies lack of punch options.

Stuff I learned:
1) Chariots versus elves is bad! Impact hits in general are bad and all the ASF won't save you from them.
2) Armies of Multi-wound regenerating monstrous infantry is very hard to kill. The WE's can do it but other things in my army just went poof. The BG for example, gone in one turn again.
3) Strength 3 shooting is situational, but RBT's are more flexible with their longer range and single shot option.
4) Flyers are hard to track down, even if they are large targets.

Tweaks I'm going to try:
1) Drop SS to regular lvl 2 Death Sorc. I need some points and this army gets into combat fast so that limits my Shadow lore options. I really want to just pop the Soulblight bubble with my two Doomfire units getting one off at least. If my level 2 gets the spell thats potentially 3 chances to get that game altering spell off.
2) Add another RBT and drop the Dreadshards. Again, RBT's are more flexible and a third may make that last single wound on a pesky dragon.
3) Go back to the Two Towers set-up. Losing BG and going back to Corsairs escorting the Shrine. Gives me some tactical options with the shrine.
4) Adding two Cold One Chariots for more punch. Since they are going to hang with the BSB's unit a reroll on Ld 9 should keep stupidity at bay hopefully. The chariots also clear chaff or other chariots better than my DR's and Doomfires. I actually want to play a bit more conservatively with the Doomfires so I have late game options with them.
5) Putting the Dreadlord on a Pegasus and have him hunt juicy targets or combo charge for a double combat in the opponents backfield. This is risky but I had used up my Hero points and could only go with the Lord points. Since I didn't have an answer for mobile ethereals, an Ogre blade and the CoT for him. Helps get those wounds to stick after the first round if he gets stuck in.

So here is the list after the tweaks:

The Return! 2.0 : I hate chariots and clowns, but clown chariots are just wrong!

Dreadlord (2#, 307 pts)
1 Dreadlord, 162 pts = (base cost 140 + Repeater Crossbow 5 + Heavy Armour 6 + Sea Dragon Cloak 8 + Shield 3)
1 Dark Pegasus, 50 pts
1 Ogre Blade, 40 pts
1 Luckstone, 5 pts
1 Cloak of Twilight, 50 pts

Death Hag (4#, 390 pts)
1 Death Hag (Battle Standard Bearer), 150 pts = (base cost 85 + Battle Standard Bearer 25 + Rune of Khaine 40)
1 Cauldron of Blood, 190 pts
1 Obsidian Blade, 50 pts

Sorceress (1#, 140 pts)
1 Sorceress, 115 pts = (base cost 80 + Level 2 Upgrade 35)
1 Dispel Scroll, 25 pts

Witch Elves (28#, 338 pts)
27 Witch Elves, 317 pts = 27 * 11 (base cost 11) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Hag, 21 pts

Corsairs (19#, 239 pts)
18 Black Ark Corsairs, 218 pts = 18 * 11 (base cost 9 + Extra Hand Weapon 2) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Reaver, 21 pts = (base cost 19 + Extra Hand Weapon 2)

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders, 110 pts = 5 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders, 110 pts = 5 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
5 Doomfire Warlocks, 125 pts = 5 * 25

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
5 Doomfire Warlocks, 125 pts = 5 * 25

Bloodwrack Shrine (1#, 175 pts)
1 Bloodwrack Shrine, 175 pts

Cold One Chariot (1#, 115 pts)
1 Cold One Chariot, 115 pts

Cold One Chariot (1#, 115 pts)
1 Cold One Chariot, 115 pts

And here is my proposed set-up to combat monster lists like Casey had. Gotta use their width against them. Stack one side and delay the other to try and turn them so that they get in each others way. Then eliminate threats one by one rather then in the middle all at once.



I hope to have one, maybe two test games before the tourney this weekend but might not get any if work is icky. I'll try and do a report for the tourney with pics and diagrams. Unless I go 0-5 then I'll just drink a lot and try to forget all those games....

[Askador]

If you have trouble against alot of Regeneration models keep the darkshards and give them a flame banner.

I had a game against 9 Chaos Trolls. Those guys shot 5 of them and killed the rest in melee alone.. it was really fun. Since them i want to have a Trolls head on the Standard

[BruceATL]

Yeah, to my friends credit the crossbows were the Dragon Ogres first target. I placed them poorly and left them alone so he got to them fairly fast. I'm pretty sure I'm playing too aggressive with the army versus total HTH armies. I've got to remember to slow down and delay a bit and let magic and shooting soften them up, then go in for the big charge with Soulblight bubbles.

To that end, Ive gone back to the Darkshards and switched out the 2nd tower with a mini-bus of Cold Ones. Chariots are history too because combined charges are really hard to go off with random charge distance. Here's what I'm thinking:

Dreadlord (1#, 276 pts)
1 Dreadlord, 176 pts = (base cost 140 + Cold One 25 + Sea Dragon Cloak 8 + Shield 3)
1 Giant Blade, 60 pts
1 Glittering Scales, 25 pts
1 The Other Trickster's Shard, 15 pts

Death Hag (4#, 275 pts)
1 Death Hag, 85 pts
1 Cauldron of Blood, 190 pts

Master (1#, 171 pts)
1 Master (Battle Standard Bearer), 121 pts = (base cost 70 + Cold One 12 + Great Weapon 4 + Heavy Armour 4 + Sea Dragon Cloak 6 + Battle Standard Bearer 25)
1 Ring of Hotek, 50 pts

Sorceress (1#, 140 pts)
1 Sorceress, 115 pts = (base cost 80 + Level 2 Upgrade 35)
1 Dispel Scroll, 25 pts

Cold One Knights (8#, 285 pts)
7 Cold One Knights, 230 pts = 7 * 30 (base cost 30) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Dread Knight, 40 pts
1 Banner of Swiftness, 15 pts

Witch Elves (35#, 415 pts)
34 Witch Elves, 394 pts = 34 * 11 (base cost 11) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Hag, 21 pts

Darkshards (12#, 174 pts)
12 Darkshards, 164 pts = 12 * 12 (base cost 12) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Banner of Eternal Flame, 10 pts

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders, 110 pts = 5 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders, 110 pts = 5 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
5 Doomfire Warlocks, 125 pts = 5 * 25

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
5 Doomfire Warlocks, 125 pts = 5 * 25

Shades (5#, 80 pts)
5 Shades, 80 pts = 5 * 16

Sorc scrollcaddy Fire Mage stays in Darkshards as a bunker. Cold ones wheel around keeping long chargers at bay while Witches walk up and stab folks in the face. With the amount of firepower in the list, I should take out a few support units before I commit to the combat.

[Amboadine]

Nice list coming along there. A little magic light for me personally I think, but I can see how it could work.

What is the thinking for using fire? Or just another iteration and test run?

[BruceATL]

Since she's lvl2 I don't expect much and Fire is fairly low cost for some ranged magic missiles. I'd love to have a lvl 4 shadow SS but points are thin and I don't have a great bunker unit for her to be in except the Knight mini-bus. That's just a few too many eggs in one basket for me.

My magic phase is pretty simple anyway. Split dice in two for Doombolts early from Warlocks and right before contact go for a dual or single Soulblight bubble depending on dice. If I have a ridiculous amount and there is a juicy target, then a Fireball from the lvl2 or super frenzy from the CoB. Shes mainly there for the scroll anyway.

[BruceATL]

Ok the minibus has just turned into a Mack Truck! Here's what I plan on taking to a local GT this weekend:

The Return 3.0: What just ran over me?

Dreadlord (1#, 276 pts)
1 Dreadlord, 176 pts = (base cost 140 + Cold One 25 + Sea Dragon Cloak 8 + Shield 3)
1 Giant Blade, 60 pts
1 Armour of Fortune, 35 pts
1 Ironcurse Icon, 5 pts

Death Hag (4#, 280 pts)
1 Death Hag, 85 pts
1 Cauldron of Blood, 190 pts
1 Warrior Bane, 5 pts

Master (1#, 171 pts)
1 Master (Battle Standard Bearer), 121 pts = (base cost 70 + Cold One 12 + Great Weapon 4 + Heavy Armour 4 + Sea Dragon Cloak 6 + Battle Standard Bearer 25)
1 Ring of Hotek, 50 pts

Supreme Sorceress (1#, 295 pts)
1 Supreme Sorceress, 240 pts = (base cost 185 + Dark Steed 20 + Level 4 Upgrade 35)
1 Dispel Scroll, 25 pts
1 Talisman of Endurance, 30 pts

Cold One Knights (12#, 390 pts)
11 Cold One Knights, 350 pts = 11 * 30 (base cost 30) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Dread Knight, 40 pts

Witch Elves (30#, 405 pts)
29 Witch Elves, 339 pts = 29 * 11 (base cost 11) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Hag, 21 pts
1 Razor Standard, 45 pts

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders, 110 pts = 5 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
5 Dark Riders, 110 pts = 5 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
5 Doomfire Warlocks, 125 pts = 5 * 25

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
5 Doomfire Warlocks, 125 pts = 5 * 25

It's go big or go home type of list. Two very deadly units guided by 4 fast cav. I had to really massage for points to make the truck 15 models strong but I think it will hurt when it hits. Life SS for buffs and the emergency Dwellers. Since she'll be in the second rank, I decided against Dark,Death, or Shadow. Results in a couple of days but I have to get back to painting CoKs!

[Askador]

I really like that list.

[Amboadine]

The return of the SS is a good strengthening to it.
Looking like a pretty strong list now.

[BruceATL]

Tourney Batrep posted here:

http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75113

I've got some modifications I want to do in the future but I'll do a little play testing first.

Here are my observations from the weekend.
1) It wins big when it wins. I went 3-2 and wound up 5th out of 24 players in a mainly scenario based scoring system. 2 of my wins were max points due to my opponent not being able to deal with the Cauldron of Witches and Soulblight bubble active.
2) If I lose the bus I lose the game usually. I may lose a few models to make the loss of this unit less dire. I'll also move the SS out on her own but ghosting the unit for the 4+ look out mam. So 8 CoK's instead of 12.
3) The Cauldron of Witches is very difficult to deal with for most armies. The Skaven player did the best by feeding them small units of rats to direct this huge ass unit somewhere where it could not get to his best units or the scenario objectives. Now call me crazy, but it almost works too well, as in overkill well. I'm going to experiment with 2 smaller witch units. Thinking of 2 6X3's with one having a hag with witchbrew and flaming banner. Spreads out the hurt a bit and gives opponents 2 units to worry about rather than 1 big one.
4) Life magic was nice as a back-up but I really used all my dice going for big Soulblights from the Warlocks. I'll go with Death on the roaming Sorc and that gives me an option for multiple chances at getting Soulblights off. When I got the bubble off, I usually won. Dwellers just didn't do much and feels dirty when you kill characters that way. Although I might try and snipe a few before getting in close. We are evil after all.
5) Going to put banners on my Dark Riders. Gives some added Fortitude for scenarios that use that for scoring. So 5 units with banners, a BSB, and a General for Fortitude.
6) Gonna try the Cloak of Twilight on my Dreadlord for some burst damage first round of combats. Kinda suicide but killing stuff faster is better?

[BruceATL]

Still Noodlehammering a bit for tournies down the road. I really want three combat threats with the list and maybe another Standard toting unit for objective purposes. So here's a start on the next version.

Fast and Furious v. 1.0

Dreadlord in 9 Cold One Knights - FC, banner of flaming attacks, ogre Blade, Black amulet

Master (BSB) in 9 Dark Riders - FC, RXB's, Great Weapon, mundane kit, Ring of Hotek

SS on steed (Dark magic)- Cloak Twilight, Dispel Scroll, MR(1) amulet - Ghosting between Knights and Dark Riders

Cauldron Hag with 35 witches - FC, Razor banner, Sword of Anti-Heroes

2 X 5 Warlocks

3 RBT's


Allows me to put pressure on flanks fast with a somewhat hitty Dark rider unit. Warlocks will have to do more chaff removal than I like but Dark rider unit should take out anything that's not T5-6ish or win combat versus evil chariots.

My other option is to go back to 2 dark rider units and change the Master (Bsb) to a Pegasus Cloak Carrier.

[T.D.]

Dreadlord in 9 Cold One Knights - FC, banner of flaming attacks, ogre Blade, Black amulet

Master (BSB) in 9 Dark Riders - FC, RXB's, Great Weapon, mundane kit, Ring of Hotek

SS on steed (Dark magic)- Cloak Twilight, Dispel Scroll, MR(1) amulet - Ghosting between Knights and Dark Riders

Cauldron Hag with 35 witches - FC, Razor banner, Sword of Anti-Heroes

2 X 5 Warlocks

3 RBT's

This looks a lot of fun

[Amboadine]

My main concern is that it is very small and you don't really have anything to deal with chaff, two 'lock units are okay but that's not really much to work with , hence you will potentially find yourself being fed small cheap units again. You might be better off building a fight warlock unit and running two units of DRs if this is the setup you are looking for. They would certainly be better in combat than the DRs.

[BruceATL]

My main concern is that it is very small and you don't really have anything to deal with chaff, two 'lock units are okay but that's not really much to work with , hence you will potentially find yourself being fed small cheap units again. You might be better off building a fight warlock unit and running two units of DRs if this is the setup you are looking for. They would certainly be better in combat than the DRs.

Yeah, I see your point. Makes the ward save 1+ too versus magic with The Ring in there.

The only army I have trouble with small cheap units is Skaven. I totally forgot about the Cauldrons terror effect on the small rat redirectors.

[BruceATL]

Allright more noodlehammering....

So I went back to my previous tournies thoughts and realized my magic phase only involved casting Soulblight from the Warlocks mostly. I always forgot my super frenzy spell and my Life SS really only got one Dwellers off and it didn't impact the game much. Don't get me wrong, I love being able to chunk 6 dice at a Soulblight and getting a IF. That happened in two games and it definitely swung combats in my favor. But I just didn't have much dice for the SS. So I'm downgrading her for a bit. This allows for much more movement and tactical options. Amboadine was right about the Warlocks being better combat troops so I increased one unit and added some shades for Vanguard protection. I think getting 9 warlocks plus a Master on a flank turn 1 will be very disconcerting to most folks. That should delay the focus firing of my two scarier units. Anyway, I'll play a few games and see, but so far it seems to have some synergies.

Dreadlord (1#, 276 pts)
1 Dreadlord, 176 pts = (base cost 140 + Cold One 25 + Sea Dragon Cloak 8 + Shield 3)
1 Ogre Blade, 40 pts
1 Black Amulet, 60 pts

Master (1#, 169 pts)
1 Master (Battle Standard Bearer), 119 pts = (base cost 70 + Dark Steed 10 + Great Weapon 4 + Heavy Armour 4 + Sea Dragon Cloak 6 + Battle Standard Bearer 25)
1 Cloak of Twilight, 50 pts

Death Hag (4#, 295 pts)
1 Death Hag, 85 pts
1 Cauldron of Blood, 190 pts
1 Sword of Might, 20 pts

Sorceress (1#, 150 pts)
1 Sorceress, 125 pts = (base cost 80 + Dark Steed 10 + Level 2 Upgrade 35)
1 Dispel Scroll, 25 pts

Witch Elves (30#, 405 pts)
29 Witch Elves, 339 pts = 29 * 11 (base cost 11) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Hag, 21 pts
1 Razor Standard, 45 pts

Dark Riders (5#, 120 pts)
5 Dark Riders, 120 pts = 5 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10

Dark Riders (5#, 120 pts)
5 Dark Riders, 120 pts = 5 * 20 (base cost 16 + Repeater Crossbow 3 + Shield 1) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10

Cold One Knights (9#, 305 pts)
8 Cold One Knights, 260 pts = 8 * 30 (base cost 30) + Musician Mus 10 + Standard Bearer Std 10
1 Dread Knight, 40 pts
1 Gleaming Pennant, 5 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
1 Reaper Bolt Thrower, 70 pts

Doomfire Warlocks (9#, 235 pts)
8 Doomfire Warlocks, 200 pts = 8 * 25
1 Master of Warlock, 35 pts

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
5 Doomfire Warlocks, 125 pts = 5 * 25

Shades (5#, 90 pts)
5 Shades, 90 pts = 5 * 18 (base cost 16 + Extra Hand Weapon 2)