Hey guys,
For an upcoming 1 day 2.4k tournament on the 21st of february under the swedish comp rules I have to come up with an army that is between comp 10-15.
Unfortunately the list I came up with is exactly 1 single point over 200 which means I'm currently at a 9.9. Even though comp scores will get rouned up/down accordingly I have to at least come up with a list that has a minimal score of 10. I guess normally it wouldn't be such a biggie to drop that single comp point but I'm having a hard time deciding what I should drop/change to get to the right score. For this reason I thought that I would be really helpful If I can get some recommendations from you.
On to the list:
Comp penaltys are listed in brackets
Lords
- Supreme Sorceress(-18), lvl 4 (-10), lore of life,(-12) dispel scroll(-7), ironcurse icon, warrior bane and talisman of preservation 300 pts (-47)
Heroes
- Death Hag(-1), BSB(-8), Cauldron(-8 and WE -5), cry of war 315 pts (-22)
- Master(-4), ha, SDC(-1), shield, lance, dark pegasus(-8), Cloak of Twilight(-8) 188 pts (-21)
Core
- 5 Dark Riders(-4), musician, shields 95 pts (-4)
- 18 Darkshards(-8), musician, standard, Banner of eternal flame 246 pts(-8)
- 28 Witch Elves(-26), Full command, Razor banner 383 pts(-26)
Special
- 8 Cold one knights(-11), full command, banner of swiftness 285 pts(-11)
- 24 Executioners(-22), full command, gleaming pennant 323 pts(-22)
- 2 Reaper bolt throwers(-16) 140 pts(-16)
Rare
- 5 Warlocks(-24) 125 pts(-24)
Total points: 2400 and total comp 201/10 = 9.9
Here's my reasoning for the list and the list alteration options that would sort the comp problem out.
My obvious soft choice in the list is exceeding the minimum requirement for core with Darkshards. They are lightly comped and it helps me use up the left over points which would normally give me a bigger penalty elsewhere except for picking dreadspears, corsairs, dreadswords, lone medusa etc.
The executionerss could be swapped for Blackguard to sort the comp problem out but it's the only unit I painted myself and I really don't want to drop them at any cost.
Next possibility is dropping the lore of life for either Dark or any of the uncomped lores such as Metal, Heavens or Beasts. I looked into Fire and Light but I don't see any benefit in going for either one of them.
I picked Life because it's comped less than Shadow and Death but seems to be the next best pick to me. I think my list has some very strong units and I think the lore of life synergises well with it and one of the deadly #6 spells.
Dropping life along with 5 darkshards to 13(-6 instead of -8) allows me to boost the COK up to 10 (-17 instead of -11) which gives me a comp score of 10.6. The question that leaves me dazzling is which of the uncomped lores should I take?
Another option would be to drop the SDC on the peg master and get an easy 10. This seems like the easiest way to do it but I just don't know how I feel about a 3+ AS on him. He's still pretty safe from ranged attacks but I think it greatly reduces it's capabilities. As an example, with a 1+ AS you could still charge a Ironblaster and be positive about the outcome of the fight. With a 3 up AS I wouldn't risk something like that which, in my opion, reduces it's role to just WM, chaff, and low S bunker/archer block hunter. I guess he's still pretty versatile but I always liked him as a monster hunter too.
These are the options I came up with and I'm really struggling with what to do.
I would love to get some feedback on it as well as any other suggestions that I've missed how to solve my comp problem.
Thnx in advance!
Short Tournament recap swedish comp 11.1
Moderator: The Dread Knights
Short Tournament recap swedish comp 11.1
Last edited by Sentarr on Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Marchosias
- Assassin
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Re: Help! Best way of changing a 9.9 Swedish comp list to a
I say go lore of light. It should work with the big blocks you have nicely.
The big units are vulnerable to redirectors -> banishment, burning gaze. Also, boosted burning gaze can be strong against some targets.
The big units are vulnerable to shooting -> Pha's protection.
The big units are vulnerable to return attacks -> Pha's protection and/or Speed of light. Also, I10 for execs makes them swing before skullcrushers, human heroes or elf heroes with GWs. Even demon princes IIRC.
The big units are clumsy -> timewarp for making them M10. Also, timewarp greatly increases the damage output of executioners.
The big units are vulnerable to spells -> net of amyntok on the enemy mage.
Of course, there are other options as well. Metal should be nice on execs, too, for example. Can you get in a few test games before the tournament? Trying out some different options could help.
In any case, I think swapping the lore is the way to go.
The big units are vulnerable to redirectors -> banishment, burning gaze. Also, boosted burning gaze can be strong against some targets.
The big units are vulnerable to shooting -> Pha's protection.
The big units are vulnerable to return attacks -> Pha's protection and/or Speed of light. Also, I10 for execs makes them swing before skullcrushers, human heroes or elf heroes with GWs. Even demon princes IIRC.
The big units are clumsy -> timewarp for making them M10. Also, timewarp greatly increases the damage output of executioners.
The big units are vulnerable to spells -> net of amyntok on the enemy mage.
Of course, there are other options as well. Metal should be nice on execs, too, for example. Can you get in a few test games before the tournament? Trying out some different options could help.
In any case, I think swapping the lore is the way to go.
The Lost Colony defenders - Rowena's painting log
Alternative Armies - because we can build any army without GW!
Alternative Armies - because we can build any army without GW!
Re: Help! Best way of changing a 9.9 Swedish comp list to a
This reply alone is exactly why Druchii.net is such an awsome website/community.
Marchosias, you really surprised me with your suggestion because out of all the possiblities I least expected the lore of light. Having looked into it myself I think I definitely misjudged the potential of this lore. Great summary you gave me with all of it's benefits and I hope to get one practice game in before the tourney using this lore.
How do you fare it off against the lore of Heavens? I did consider that one myself due to the following:
Iceshards -1 to hit altho this kinda falls off against Pha's especially bubbling its use.
Curse of the Midnight wind has it's use
Thunderbolt is a decent magic missle with an impressive range.
Comet doesn't need a whole lot of motivation, great against gunlines which will hurt my list and useable to control the enemys movement
Chain lightning is good but you need a bit of luck to do some serious damage.
I did look into Metal but I feel that it's value only shows when you either have an opponent where Searing Doom is usefull or if you rolled up Final Trans. The scaly skin is nice along with +1 to hit but it lacks an easy to cast magic missile along with Doombolt for some ranged threat.
Marchosias, you really surprised me with your suggestion because out of all the possiblities I least expected the lore of light. Having looked into it myself I think I definitely misjudged the potential of this lore. Great summary you gave me with all of it's benefits and I hope to get one practice game in before the tourney using this lore.
How do you fare it off against the lore of Heavens? I did consider that one myself due to the following:
Iceshards -1 to hit altho this kinda falls off against Pha's especially bubbling its use.
Curse of the Midnight wind has it's use
Thunderbolt is a decent magic missle with an impressive range.
Comet doesn't need a whole lot of motivation, great against gunlines which will hurt my list and useable to control the enemys movement
Chain lightning is good but you need a bit of luck to do some serious damage.
I did look into Metal but I feel that it's value only shows when you either have an opponent where Searing Doom is usefull or if you rolled up Final Trans. The scaly skin is nice along with +1 to hit but it lacks an easy to cast magic missile along with Doombolt for some ranged threat.
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direweasel
- Malekith's Personal Guard
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- Location: Terre Haute, IN, USA
Re: Help! Best way of changing a 9.9 Swedish comp list to a
You could drop the sorceress to Lvl3, often times that 4th level isn't as important as you think, especially in a comp environment like that. She is, by far, your biggest comp hit, so that's where the choices lie that make the most difference.
If you do decide to drop to Lvl3, then I would go with Dark Magic, and you'd get back your +1 to casting. It has good variety and options, although you already have that covered somewhat with the Warlocks. Another one to consider is Beasts. The signature spell for that lore is GREAT on witches and executioners, especially witches. Making your witches S4 and T4 makes them killing machines, and it's cheap and easy to cast.
Otherwise, Marchosias' suggestions make sense too. I just thought I'd throw out some other ideas.
If you do decide to drop to Lvl3, then I would go with Dark Magic, and you'd get back your +1 to casting. It has good variety and options, although you already have that covered somewhat with the Warlocks. Another one to consider is Beasts. The signature spell for that lore is GREAT on witches and executioners, especially witches. Making your witches S4 and T4 makes them killing machines, and it's cheap and easy to cast.
Otherwise, Marchosias' suggestions make sense too. I just thought I'd throw out some other ideas.
Chinese Relativity Axiom: No matter how glorious your triumphs, nor how miserable your failures, there will always be at least one billion people in China who don't give a damn.
Apocalypse Drow! Plog: http://druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=75360
Apocalypse Drow! Plog: http://druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=75360
Re: Help! Best way of changing a 9.9 Swedish comp list to a
Throwing out other ideas than what I initially came up with is exactly what I hoped would happen in this thread Dire so thanks for that.
I hadn't considered dropping her to a lvl 3 before but it definitely opens up a lot of options. The whole point of taking an uncomped lore for instance is off the table if I drop her to a lvl 3.
Just realised that I forgot to mention that we are using the latest swedish comp V15.2.
Looking at it right now, I safe 22 comp points when I reduce my sorc to a lvl 3 without a lore which opens up all the lores again for her to use. Death, shadow, life, you name it.
Going forward with your idea Dire, what lore would you suggest going for? Still Dark for the +1 casting bonus when the stronger lores are available?
Not being the most experienced warhammer player I struggle to come up with great synergies between my list and magic lores like Marchosias did. In that regard, what lore would synergise the best with my list?
I hadn't considered dropping her to a lvl 3 before but it definitely opens up a lot of options. The whole point of taking an uncomped lore for instance is off the table if I drop her to a lvl 3.
Just realised that I forgot to mention that we are using the latest swedish comp V15.2.
Looking at it right now, I safe 22 comp points when I reduce my sorc to a lvl 3 without a lore which opens up all the lores again for her to use. Death, shadow, life, you name it.
Going forward with your idea Dire, what lore would you suggest going for? Still Dark for the +1 casting bonus when the stronger lores are available?
Not being the most experienced warhammer player I struggle to come up with great synergies between my list and magic lores like Marchosias did. In that regard, what lore would synergise the best with my list?
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direweasel
- Malekith's Personal Guard
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Re: Help! Best way of changing a 9.9 Swedish comp list to a
Well to be honest, knowledge of the magic lores is not my strongest suit, and I'm not around my books atm, so I wouldn't want to make myself sound more knowledgable than I am.
My logic for taking Dark with a Lvl3 was more about the +1 than the spells themselves, but I do still contend that it a pretty good lore that can do a lot of things well. Power of Darkness can give you more dice when you need them; Doombolt is still one of the best magic missile spells in the game.
I've always been a fan of Death magic, and as you say, if you drop to Lvl3 you open up that possibility without getting eaten too badly on comp. Shadow is also awesome - they are comped for a reason.
And as I mentioned I am fond of Beasts, but usually I put that on a secondary caster, a Lvl1 or 2, more or less JUST for that Wildform signature spell. The rest of the lore is OK in my experience, but not super.
Hope that helps.
My logic for taking Dark with a Lvl3 was more about the +1 than the spells themselves, but I do still contend that it a pretty good lore that can do a lot of things well. Power of Darkness can give you more dice when you need them; Doombolt is still one of the best magic missile spells in the game.
I've always been a fan of Death magic, and as you say, if you drop to Lvl3 you open up that possibility without getting eaten too badly on comp. Shadow is also awesome - they are comped for a reason.
And as I mentioned I am fond of Beasts, but usually I put that on a secondary caster, a Lvl1 or 2, more or less JUST for that Wildform signature spell. The rest of the lore is OK in my experience, but not super.Hope that helps.
Chinese Relativity Axiom: No matter how glorious your triumphs, nor how miserable your failures, there will always be at least one billion people in China who don't give a damn.
Apocalypse Drow! Plog: http://druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=75360
Apocalypse Drow! Plog: http://druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=75360
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Marchosias
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Re: Help! Best way of changing a 9.9 Swedish comp list to a
Heavens magic is a very good idea as well. I think it depends on what can you expect your opponents to bring. Heavens magic is very good for its high strength magic missiles, comet can be devastating and the buffs and hexes are not bad either (for example, harmonic convergence makes your COK nearly immune to S3 and is a good boost for reapers, too). Should you encounter lots of light troops, however, such as a swarm of skinks, the magic missiles will be mostly wasted. On the other hand, light helps your troops do heavy work but does not solve that many problems by itself. Should you happen to fight an army with many tough and fast models similar in style to a pegasus spam, it would be lacking. They would butcher your troops anyway. Here, heavens would give you some means to damage those strong guys at distance. I think heavens might actually make your army more versatile. Hard to judge, though.
I am not convinced by the beasts magic here. The spells are short-ranged, two of them only affect a hero which might not be close enough, transformation is very risky because as a RIP spell, your opponent can dispel it in your movement phase and shoot at your sorceress who will be in her elf form again outside of a bodyguard unit. I quite liked beasts magic with a dragon sorceress and three pegasus fighters. In your army, I fear it would be lacking.
By the way, I think you could use one more unit that enhances board control. Maybe some harpies for destroying cannons and dying under the boots of the deathstar you do not want to fight. Maybe some shades that can be used in the same way but shoot reasonably well, too. Maybe one more unit of dark riders. Not sure what models do you have and what kind of shuffling you would need to allow this. Maybe you are even fine as it is. I would feel slightly nervous playing this army but it might be just my playstyle.
I am not convinced by the beasts magic here. The spells are short-ranged, two of them only affect a hero which might not be close enough, transformation is very risky because as a RIP spell, your opponent can dispel it in your movement phase and shoot at your sorceress who will be in her elf form again outside of a bodyguard unit. I quite liked beasts magic with a dragon sorceress and three pegasus fighters. In your army, I fear it would be lacking.
By the way, I think you could use one more unit that enhances board control. Maybe some harpies for destroying cannons and dying under the boots of the deathstar you do not want to fight. Maybe some shades that can be used in the same way but shoot reasonably well, too. Maybe one more unit of dark riders. Not sure what models do you have and what kind of shuffling you would need to allow this. Maybe you are even fine as it is. I would feel slightly nervous playing this army but it might be just my playstyle.
The Lost Colony defenders - Rowena's painting log
Alternative Armies - because we can build any army without GW!
Alternative Armies - because we can build any army without GW!
Re: Help! Best way of changing a 9.9 Swedish comp list to a
It definitely helps.
I have a thing for the lore of beasts too (I also play Beastmen), but I always find it lackluster in the first round or two. Besides Amber spear there's hardly anything that will draw out a scroll and I really like to put pressure on my opponent from turn 1. With warlocks around I think you can make it work on a lvl 4 but I reckon that's more for a friendly game than a tournament list.
For now I've decided to go for a lvl 3 on death, dropping 3 darkshards and adding 2 CoKs. This gives me a comp score of 10.3. Still not sure about the level 3 tho. I'm so used to having 4 spells but I guess that's just fearing the unknown.
I have until saturday to submit my list so hopefully there will be some more insights from others.
I have a thing for the lore of beasts too (I also play Beastmen), but I always find it lackluster in the first round or two. Besides Amber spear there's hardly anything that will draw out a scroll and I really like to put pressure on my opponent from turn 1. With warlocks around I think you can make it work on a lvl 4 but I reckon that's more for a friendly game than a tournament list.
For now I've decided to go for a lvl 3 on death, dropping 3 darkshards and adding 2 CoKs. This gives me a comp score of 10.3. Still not sure about the level 3 tho. I'm so used to having 4 spells but I guess that's just fearing the unknown.
I have until saturday to submit my list so hopefully there will be some more insights from others.
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Demetrius
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Re: Help! Best way of changing a 9.9 Swedish comp list to a
Give your Peg master the charmed shield and talisman of preservation instead of the cloak of twilight, also give him a halberd. I have been using this build and it is super solid, because he is much more resilient in combat and can grind better with S5. It will also pick you up 8 comp points, which you can use to get crossbows on the Dark Riders, and potentially extra bodies. Under Swedish, I like a unit of 9 with FC and RXB, its only -10 for 210 points.
That means dropping the talisman of pres off the Lvl 4, but thats fine, she doesn't need it. Maybe give her MR3 if you think there will be a bit of death magic, but otherwise she is fine without ward saves.
Another option is to drop two Cold Ones for 5 comp points. I have used a unit of 6 with FC and gleaming pennant under swedish to good use.
That means dropping the talisman of pres off the Lvl 4, but thats fine, she doesn't need it. Maybe give her MR3 if you think there will be a bit of death magic, but otherwise she is fine without ward saves.
Another option is to drop two Cold Ones for 5 comp points. I have used a unit of 6 with FC and gleaming pennant under swedish to good use.
Re: Help! Best way of changing a 9.9 Swedish comp list to a
@Demetrius That's a great idea and build for my pegmaster, thanks!. That alone opens up a lot of possibilities and I'm definitely taking him over the COT variant.
I also like your other suggestions about what I could do with the saved comp points but I'm currently leaning more towards bumping my sorceress back to lvl 4 with the lore of life or any of the other uncomped lores such as metal, heavens and light. With the lore of life I have replaced the 4++ to MR3 but if I go for any of the uncomped lores I could have the Ring of Hotek and still end up with a comp 11 list.
So far my revised list looks like this:
Lvl 4, MR3, scroll, ironcurse, lore of life
Pegmaster, 1+, charmed shield, 4++, halberd, repeater crossbow
DH, COB, cry of war
5 DR, muso, shields
12 Shards, std, muso, flaming banner
28 WE, FC, Razor banner
10COK,fc, swiftness
24 execs, fc, discipline
2x BT
5 Locks
Total comp 10.1 / points: 2392
Like I mentioned before. I could swap the lore of life, include the Ring of Hotek and get a comp score of 11.
@Marchosias Thanks again for another in depth explanation of the pros/cons of the mentioned lores. I totally agree with you on the lore of beasts. It doesn't work really well with my army and there are far better lores available. Like I said before, I'll reread your analysis again and pick one of the 4 lores for my practise game.
I also agree with you that I could really use another unit that enhances board control. Normally I would go for two units of dark riders along with my witches but their comp penalty is pretty fierce.
I could potentially go for a 2nd unit of DR but that means that I have to go for a uncomped magic lore. I wouldn't mind that but I'm struggling to calculate the comp penalty for a 2nd unit of DR.
Is it -2 per model or just for the whole unit 2nd unit + the normal comp of -4/-6* if go for 5/6 models? It would be awesome if someone could help me figure that out.
Having spend 50 pts more in core on my Darkshards who act as a soft choice, I'm kinda stuck on going for a 2nd unit of DR. Harpies/shades would be great but that means I have to shave off pts somewhere else too. I like my list so far and I'm hesitant to drop bodies from my execs/coks for instance.
I also like your other suggestions about what I could do with the saved comp points but I'm currently leaning more towards bumping my sorceress back to lvl 4 with the lore of life or any of the other uncomped lores such as metal, heavens and light. With the lore of life I have replaced the 4++ to MR3 but if I go for any of the uncomped lores I could have the Ring of Hotek and still end up with a comp 11 list.
So far my revised list looks like this:
Lvl 4, MR3, scroll, ironcurse, lore of life
Pegmaster, 1+, charmed shield, 4++, halberd, repeater crossbow
DH, COB, cry of war
5 DR, muso, shields
12 Shards, std, muso, flaming banner
28 WE, FC, Razor banner
10COK,fc, swiftness
24 execs, fc, discipline
2x BT
5 Locks
Total comp 10.1 / points: 2392
Like I mentioned before. I could swap the lore of life, include the Ring of Hotek and get a comp score of 11.
@Marchosias Thanks again for another in depth explanation of the pros/cons of the mentioned lores. I totally agree with you on the lore of beasts. It doesn't work really well with my army and there are far better lores available. Like I said before, I'll reread your analysis again and pick one of the 4 lores for my practise game.
I also agree with you that I could really use another unit that enhances board control. Normally I would go for two units of dark riders along with my witches but their comp penalty is pretty fierce.
I could potentially go for a 2nd unit of DR but that means that I have to go for a uncomped magic lore. I wouldn't mind that but I'm struggling to calculate the comp penalty for a 2nd unit of DR.
Is it -2 per model or just for the whole unit 2nd unit + the normal comp of -4/-6* if go for 5/6 models? It would be awesome if someone could help me figure that out.
Having spend 50 pts more in core on my Darkshards who act as a soft choice, I'm kinda stuck on going for a 2nd unit of DR. Harpies/shades would be great but that means I have to shave off pts somewhere else too. I like my list so far and I'm hesitant to drop bodies from my execs/coks for instance.
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Ajattaro
- Executioner
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- Location: Stalking the Frozen Lands of Finland
Re: Help! Best way of changing a 9.9 Swedish comp list to a
Hi! Are going to tournament held in Helsinki in any chance? Im coming there too! And I have a problem with my 9,8point list too. Hard to make changes in swedish if you hang near the threshold...
Penalty for second unit of DR is applied for unit, so its -6 for 5DR without rxbs. Shades have penalty per model comp.
Remember that your pegmaster has 2+ save in close combat (HA SDC mounted), not 1+ if you use halberd. Mention 1+ and charmed shield is bit confusing..
Personally, I would take Ring instead of MR3, and Light over Life. Ring is much better, and it gives good protection for piled up infantry army. Both lores are great, but since is great, more versatile and uncomped, I would use that.
I coming with cavalry army with Beasts and Metal magic
Penalty for second unit of DR is applied for unit, so its -6 for 5DR without rxbs. Shades have penalty per model comp.
Remember that your pegmaster has 2+ save in close combat (HA SDC mounted), not 1+ if you use halberd. Mention 1+ and charmed shield is bit confusing..
Personally, I would take Ring instead of MR3, and Light over Life. Ring is much better, and it gives good protection for piled up infantry army. Both lores are great, but since is great, more versatile and uncomped, I would use that.
I coming with cavalry army with Beasts and Metal magic
Re: Help! Best way of changing a 9.9 Swedish comp list to a
It would have been great fun to meet a fellow druchii member but that's not likely to happen at the tournament that I'm going to. It's not in Helsinki but near Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
Totally agree with you that it's not easy to make changes while you're near the threshold but I did get some very good recommendations and advise so it ain't impossible.
Thnx for clarifying how a 2nd unit of DR is penalized. It's manageable to fit them in but I like my current comp 11 list.
About the peg master, it is indeed confusing. He has a 1+ AS against shooting and a 2+ in CC.
I ended up taking the Ring and going for Metal:).
Maybe you could share your list in this thread, really curious to see what you'll bring and maybe I can come up with a suggestion or two to solve your comp problem.
Totally agree with you that it's not easy to make changes while you're near the threshold but I did get some very good recommendations and advise so it ain't impossible.
Thnx for clarifying how a 2nd unit of DR is penalized. It's manageable to fit them in but I like my current comp 11 list.
About the peg master, it is indeed confusing. He has a 1+ AS against shooting and a 2+ in CC.
I ended up taking the Ring and going for Metal:).
Maybe you could share your list in this thread, really curious to see what you'll bring and maybe I can come up with a suggestion or two to solve your comp problem.
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Ajattaro
- Executioner
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Re: Help! Best way of changing a 9.9 Swedish comp list to a
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76010
Actually I posted my list on that thread today. I already fixed mine by dropping shades and shaving units here and there to upgrade my comp points. Also you can make some nifty combinations with equipment that dont get penalized so much or at all. Now it is 13.3, and tournaments comp score is 10-14
You will surely be well off with metal. Bubbled timewarp would still be awesome with your list though!
Actually I posted my list on that thread today. I already fixed mine by dropping shades and shaving units here and there to upgrade my comp points. Also you can make some nifty combinations with equipment that dont get penalized so much or at all. Now it is 13.3, and tournaments comp score is 10-14
You will surely be well off with metal. Bubbled timewarp would still be awesome with your list though!
Re: Help! Best way of changing a 9.9 Swedish comp list to a
Hey guys,
Here's a recap of the tourney in which I didn't do too well. I learned a lot about the list that I brought and the flaws that were in it.
First game was a pairing based on comp score and I got matched up against a pretty solid 11.1 Wood Elf list. Out of the three possible opponents this was by far my worst match up and I ended up losing that game 14 - 6.
Here's a quick run down of his list:
Lvl 4 high magic on a steed, MR1 and scroll
BSB, hail of doom arrow, charmed shield, starfire shafts, spear, steed
3x 10 GG, trueflight
20 Eternal guard, FC
10 Wildwood rangers
8 Sisters, discipline
2x 5 Wild Riders
2x 5 scouts starfire shafts
5 wardancers
2x 5 Waywatchers
2 Eagles
1 Eagle
From the get go I knew that I was gonna be in a lot of trouble. Having only 8 drops including characters ment that I was easily out deployed and losing the roll of for first turn even with the +1 spelled doom for this game.
After my turn 2 I had lost all my executioners from GG shooting, 6 dead knights due to the waywatchers and my Witches being chaffed up with eagles. I got some points from 5 Wild Riders that overran into the flank of my witches (bad play on my opponents part I guess, 5 scouts that moved within m9 from my DR guarding a BT, 20 Eternal Guard who he foolishly charged into my depleted COB/WE horde (8WE left at that point) while I had bubble Soulblight up and some half points for his Sisters(Final Trans) and the other Wild Rider unit. If my opponent played it more cautiously he could have easily 20 - 0 me but I took the points I could whenever I could.
Game 2 was against Lizzies
His list
3x Scar vet on foot (1 BSB)
2x skink priest (beasts) /w cube and scroll
35 Saurus fc, spears in bus (all scar vets in here)
3x 10 Skink skirmishers with javelins
Bastiladon /w Solar
3x Ripperdactyls
25 TG, fc
Ancient Steg, sharpened horns
2x Salamander
All in all I guess this was a okay matchup but I made a mistake charging his TG in the front with my full unit of knights and my pegmaster in the flank. I should have never charged them frontally since I was never gonna break steadfast. It took me 3 turns to chew through the TG even after he charged his Rippers in the flank of my pegmaster. There wasn't enough room to charge my knights in the front, who had been toad marked, so I guess he only fed me CR because my S5 master just chopped them up easily.
I could have freed the knights/master up a turn earlier if my execs didn't fail their 6 inch charge but i rolled a 3:/.
Again the COB horde didn't do a whole lot after taking a massive beating from skink shooting and salamanders. I made another stupid decision when I charged the depleted horde into his cav/saurus bus while they had wyssans up and just bounced of it like no tomorrow:D.. Looking back at it now I guess I just didn't know what to do with them knowing they were gonna get shot to bits If I didn't get them into CC. It was a good lesson that preserving points is another viable strategy instead of throwing away my most expensive unit.
I knew that at the end of turn 5 I was still up about 400 pts until I miscasted turn 6 casting final trans on his bus. The bus(25saurus +3 scarvets) was staring at my unit of 20 execs with sorceress at easy charge distance ( 6 inch apart) and I knew It was gonna be hard to beat them in the inevitable combat. I ran my sorc out and IF-ed final trans which took out 7 saurus and his BSB. I then rolled a 3 on the miscast table and lost my wizard haha. Of course he then decided not to charge on his turn 6 and the game was over.
We ended up with a 10 - 10 draw.
Apart from some really bad decisions on my part we both had a blast and that's what counts the most.
Game 3 was against a tough Dwarf army that I wanted to avoid at all cost (It was an open list tournament so all lists were known a week before).
His list:
Grim Burloksson
Thane, BSB, gw, rune of stone
Rune Smith, gw, rune of spellbreaking, rune of stone
25 Longbeards, shields, fc
10 thunderers, shields
10 quarrelers, shields
24 Hammerers, fc, Master rune of Valaya
2x Cannon, 1 rune of forging
2x Gyro /w steamgun
2x Organ gun, Rune of accuracy, rune of forging
1x Gyrobomber
10 Rangers
Looking at his list I felt that it was pointless to run towards his lines being shot the death hoping I would have enough left to grab some points here and there.
I decided to castle up in my right corner which had a big piece of impassable terrain to hide my Cob behind and keep the rest outside of the 30" range from his Organ guns.
Openly admitting he was getting punished for his list he decided to advance with his entire army.
I just took two cannon balls each turn and tried to damage him with final trans 36" away. Turn 4 I couldn't stand my own castling and moved my knights out of hard cover to threaten his advancing army. By doing so I gave my executioners + SS hard cover.
I also moved my witches forward from the baseline keeping the cauldron with 12 inch to join them turn 5.
His turn 4 saw 6 dead Cold one knights and a few dead witches.
Turn 5 I charged the organ guns with 5 locks and the remaining knights and moved my COB horde on a decent charge distance off both his units hammerers and Longbeards. I just wanted to see what happened if they both charged in and at that point both my opponent and I were just making the best of it.
His charges bottom of 5 saw his hammerers failing needing a 7 but the longbeards made it.
We both knew this wasn't going to end well and I think I killed about 19 Longbeards with some insane dice rolling before he got to strike back.
Not rolling double 1s with reroll had him flee and my witches caught him and overran into his hammerers.
The same thing happened in that combat and it ended up being a 17 - 3 for me.
Was I too afraid for his gunline and should I have played differently?
If he wasn't such a great sport and decided to stay put the game would basically end in 30 minutes with him firing two cannons and me 6 dicing Final trans. Not a great game for both but I guess the best option for me or am I completely wrong?
Any other tips or feedback would be appreciated.
Here's a recap of the tourney in which I didn't do too well. I learned a lot about the list that I brought and the flaws that were in it.
First game was a pairing based on comp score and I got matched up against a pretty solid 11.1 Wood Elf list. Out of the three possible opponents this was by far my worst match up and I ended up losing that game 14 - 6.
Here's a quick run down of his list:
Lvl 4 high magic on a steed, MR1 and scroll
BSB, hail of doom arrow, charmed shield, starfire shafts, spear, steed
3x 10 GG, trueflight
20 Eternal guard, FC
10 Wildwood rangers
8 Sisters, discipline
2x 5 Wild Riders
2x 5 scouts starfire shafts
5 wardancers
2x 5 Waywatchers
2 Eagles
1 Eagle
From the get go I knew that I was gonna be in a lot of trouble. Having only 8 drops including characters ment that I was easily out deployed and losing the roll of for first turn even with the +1 spelled doom for this game.
After my turn 2 I had lost all my executioners from GG shooting, 6 dead knights due to the waywatchers and my Witches being chaffed up with eagles. I got some points from 5 Wild Riders that overran into the flank of my witches (bad play on my opponents part I guess, 5 scouts that moved within m9 from my DR guarding a BT, 20 Eternal Guard who he foolishly charged into my depleted COB/WE horde (8WE left at that point) while I had bubble Soulblight up and some half points for his Sisters(Final Trans) and the other Wild Rider unit. If my opponent played it more cautiously he could have easily 20 - 0 me but I took the points I could whenever I could.
Game 2 was against Lizzies
His list
3x Scar vet on foot (1 BSB)
2x skink priest (beasts) /w cube and scroll
35 Saurus fc, spears in bus (all scar vets in here)
3x 10 Skink skirmishers with javelins
Bastiladon /w Solar
3x Ripperdactyls
25 TG, fc
Ancient Steg, sharpened horns
2x Salamander
All in all I guess this was a okay matchup but I made a mistake charging his TG in the front with my full unit of knights and my pegmaster in the flank. I should have never charged them frontally since I was never gonna break steadfast. It took me 3 turns to chew through the TG even after he charged his Rippers in the flank of my pegmaster. There wasn't enough room to charge my knights in the front, who had been toad marked, so I guess he only fed me CR because my S5 master just chopped them up easily.
I could have freed the knights/master up a turn earlier if my execs didn't fail their 6 inch charge but i rolled a 3:/.
Again the COB horde didn't do a whole lot after taking a massive beating from skink shooting and salamanders. I made another stupid decision when I charged the depleted horde into his cav/saurus bus while they had wyssans up and just bounced of it like no tomorrow:D.. Looking back at it now I guess I just didn't know what to do with them knowing they were gonna get shot to bits If I didn't get them into CC. It was a good lesson that preserving points is another viable strategy instead of throwing away my most expensive unit.
I knew that at the end of turn 5 I was still up about 400 pts until I miscasted turn 6 casting final trans on his bus. The bus(25saurus +3 scarvets) was staring at my unit of 20 execs with sorceress at easy charge distance ( 6 inch apart) and I knew It was gonna be hard to beat them in the inevitable combat. I ran my sorc out and IF-ed final trans which took out 7 saurus and his BSB. I then rolled a 3 on the miscast table and lost my wizard haha. Of course he then decided not to charge on his turn 6 and the game was over.
We ended up with a 10 - 10 draw.
Apart from some really bad decisions on my part we both had a blast and that's what counts the most.
Game 3 was against a tough Dwarf army that I wanted to avoid at all cost (It was an open list tournament so all lists were known a week before).
His list:
Grim Burloksson
Thane, BSB, gw, rune of stone
Rune Smith, gw, rune of spellbreaking, rune of stone
25 Longbeards, shields, fc
10 thunderers, shields
10 quarrelers, shields
24 Hammerers, fc, Master rune of Valaya
2x Cannon, 1 rune of forging
2x Gyro /w steamgun
2x Organ gun, Rune of accuracy, rune of forging
1x Gyrobomber
10 Rangers
Looking at his list I felt that it was pointless to run towards his lines being shot the death hoping I would have enough left to grab some points here and there.
I decided to castle up in my right corner which had a big piece of impassable terrain to hide my Cob behind and keep the rest outside of the 30" range from his Organ guns.
Openly admitting he was getting punished for his list he decided to advance with his entire army.
I just took two cannon balls each turn and tried to damage him with final trans 36" away. Turn 4 I couldn't stand my own castling and moved my knights out of hard cover to threaten his advancing army. By doing so I gave my executioners + SS hard cover.
I also moved my witches forward from the baseline keeping the cauldron with 12 inch to join them turn 5.
His turn 4 saw 6 dead Cold one knights and a few dead witches.
Turn 5 I charged the organ guns with 5 locks and the remaining knights and moved my COB horde on a decent charge distance off both his units hammerers and Longbeards. I just wanted to see what happened if they both charged in and at that point both my opponent and I were just making the best of it.
His charges bottom of 5 saw his hammerers failing needing a 7 but the longbeards made it.
We both knew this wasn't going to end well and I think I killed about 19 Longbeards with some insane dice rolling before he got to strike back.
Not rolling double 1s with reroll had him flee and my witches caught him and overran into his hammerers.
The same thing happened in that combat and it ended up being a 17 - 3 for me.
Was I too afraid for his gunline and should I have played differently?
If he wasn't such a great sport and decided to stay put the game would basically end in 30 minutes with him firing two cannons and me 6 dicing Final trans. Not a great game for both but I guess the best option for me or am I completely wrong?
Any other tips or feedback would be appreciated.
Re: Short Tournament recap swedish comp 11.1
WE are a really bad matchup for infantry DE unfortunately. It´s a matchup one need to have in mind. This is exactly the reason I usually bring a level 1 fire (good vs dwarf machines aswell). In the final game I think you did exactly right. No need to play to his strengths by advancing headlong into his lines. You played a good game and the result reflects that IMO
Re: Short Tournament recap swedish comp 11.1
Some easy to cast magic missiles would have helped a lot indeed because Metal was nearly useless in this match up. The lesson I've learned from this game is that I should have some fast elements in my list that could deal with these type of fast avoidance shooty lists. I've got another swedisch comped tournament coming up in two months and the list I have in mind has a lot more to offer when I face another WE.