F.E.A.R. - the shroud bomb list

[toots]

Hi, this list is to be used in conjunction with shroud of despair spell, as per the tactics thread that's ongoing. Two terror causers and two fear causers should provide for many leadership tests! The comp for this tournament means I can't have 1+ pegasus men, so I just got rid of him! Too bad.

Death hag w/ cry of war, bsb, cauldron, movement banner,
28 witch elves, razor banner, FC

5 coks, standard musician, flaming banner

2x 5 DRs, musician. Shields crossbows

34 execs, standard, musician, terror banner

K beast

Level 4, dispel scroll, cloak of twi and obsidian trinket. Dark steed. Dark magic!

5 harpies

5 warlocks

2 RBTs

[Searinox Nagharha]

I'd say you dont have enough saturation. the Karibdyss is a good choise but will get shot down turn1.
The 5 COK will also not fair well against shooting/Magic
34 Executioners with Terror, personally I'd stick most of these points in the COK.
And I guess that a SS on DP is also not available? As on a Dark Steed she might have the same mobility, the Fly and addition inch(es) rly help with this kind of tactic

[toots]

they can shoot at the K-beast if they like, he's a cool guy but i'd rather they do that than hit the cauldron.

sorceress is not going on a pegasus! the slight decrease in mobility is fine by me for the reduction in points. plus, i don't have the model, and i've spent ages collecting the bits together to make a good conversion (pics to come in another thread)

the COKs are just to inject fire into a combat where the enemy has regeneration. i'd rather have a sizeable block of execs in this list than a bigger unit of COKs. frenzy from the cauldron and all. re-rolls to wound etc.

the terror banner is v. expensive and a bit mad but in this list makes sense.

this whole shroud leadership bomb thing is a fun idea but versus armies which are immune to psychology... kinda useless other than it makes them immune to fear/terror etc. fun though! and it gives 'redundancy' to the spells we have. i.e. if an opponent knows the only useful spell you can cast is word of pain, they'll just dispel that. but perhaps shroud is dangerous enough for opponents to let WoP through...

[anglais]

3 wounds t3 is not good even with 3++
it is basically 3 empire knights hit by rbt. pegassus is much better.
if you like the model, you might think about making a decent bunker. otherwise she will end up hiding in executioners.
I would trade terror banner for something that can generate panic by shooting, as now shooting is your weakest phase.
hag begs for obsidian blade.

[Sangfroid]

I recently tried shroud bomb list at a tourney I couldn't get it working partly due to some bad luck in games it would have worked (Orc and goblins with laser guided stone throwers on the hydrae) and partly because the tactic relies not only on you getting power dice but also getting the spell thru a scroll and or dispel dice. It's only 2000 pts but if I could have taken more I'd have combined the locks into 9 taken a steed master bsb and either a dreadlord on a steed or upgrade the shrine to a cob with DH on obsidian blade and rune of Khaine. Interestingly the two best games I had with it was against VC and DoC where the shroud spell was useless but dark magic in general was very useful.

Here's the basic list, two hydra rather than kharibdyss for dual breath weapons, corsairs with AHW as the bunker (7 ranks deep) witches and warlock as flankers and chaff.

Supreme Sorceress: Ring of Hotek; Dispel Scroll; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Dark Magic 295

Master: Cloak of Twilight; heavy armour; lance; Sea Dragon cloak; shield; Dark Pegasus 188
Master: Talisman of Preservation; Charmed Shield; heavy armour; lance; Sea Dragon cloak; shield; Dark Pegasus 188

26 Black Ark Corsairs: Reaver; musician; standard bearer (Gleaming Pennant) 321
10 Witch Elves 110
10 Witch Elves 110

War Hydra: Fiery Breath 180
War Hydra: Fiery Breath 180

5 Doomfire Warlocks 125
Bloodwrack Shrine 175
5 Doomfire Warlocks 125

1,997 points

[Searinox Nagharha]

If you plan on playing with a Shroud tactic tho m8 the first thing you need to realize is that there are more Ld checks then just Fear/Terror/Panic

[Praetorian1979]

If you plan on playing with a Shroud tactic tho m8 the first thing you need to realize is that there are more Ld checks then just Fear/Terror/Panic

These are the ones we can force... reform, restrain, march block. Am I missing some ?

[Lord Drakon]

Especially movement : stupidity, frenzy, march block, reform. Also note that if you can force an enemy unit to flee in your turn, it is very unlikely he will rally in his turn while Shroud still active. This can effectively keep a unit out of the battle for 2 turns if you succeed panicking or breaking it.

Rear charge of unit of Dark Riders with standard (4 combat resolution) on anvil (4 combat resolution with ranks and standard). If you can succeed to inflict one more wound on the enemy unit (especially likely if you can cause fear) and win combat while enemy core troops test on own low leadership with at least -1 LD. Bye bye 50 slaves, clanrats, spearman or gobbos. With Shroud of Despair winning combat becomes huge, and there are many ways to do that even with weak units.

Question : the rank bonus leadership for Skaven by general, is that also shut down for units inside the Shroud bubble ?

[anglais]

rank bonus can be used inside the buble. Ld cannot be less than 0. I hope that helps

[Lord Drakon]

rank bonus can be used inside the buble. Ld cannot be less than 0. I hope that helps

Did some research to Skaven army rules and general stats etc. I now understand how important their strength through number rule is. But when Shrine of Slaughter (combined Sisters of Slaughter and Bloodwrack Shrine) charges any Skaven unit, even without the Shroud and inside their general bubble, they have to test on a leadership of 6 because -1 LD and negate of rank bonus. With Shroud on, they (big clanrat anvils) have to test on a 4, without any other failed tests = autofail.

So that let me come to the conclusion than Sisters of Slaughter are also perfect for Shroud / Leadership Bomb lists, same as Kharibdyss, Bloodwrack Shrine, Cry of War, Death magic, Terror/Fear causing units.

Skaven have the lowest general leadership, therefore most affected by Shroud of Despair. They will get +3 leadership for any unit, making up for their weakness, but only sisters are able to negate that leadership. Againt, winning combat is the most important aspect when you can start the Leadership bomb. Sisters always negate rank bonuses, while for most anvils/core troops rank bonus is what them gives combat resolution and therefore possible win/draw in combat.

Conclusion : Sisters are a very good choice in shroud bomb lists.

[anglais]

that's true, provided that you have issues with killing skaven screens.
skaven I play against have itp bell bunker, fellblade and either ratling cannons shooters or popoing up assault stromfiends.
such units do not depend on leadership, thus negating the idea of ld bomb

[Lord Drakon]

I think most important thing of ld bomb lists should be that they are competetive list, but with the option to capitalize if enemy offer weak leadership spots (which will happen as shroud tactics are not yet common and psych tactics underused.

Basics of any ld bomb list :

- All combat unit should cause fear or terror
- You should have access to leadership lowering options
- You should have some tools to force panic tests (shooting, magic)
- Static combat resolution is important, breaking is key

most units which are itp are also frenzy, so possible to capitalize on with shroud with redirecting. Note that ld bomb lists become immune against psych of deamons, vampire and tomb kings lists, so your list is also very much equipped against ld bomb immune armies.

Immune to Psychology
Deamons of Chaos, Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings

Tactical use
Dwarfs (LD9), Dark Elves (LD8), Warriors of Chaos (LD8), Ogres, Wood Elves (LD8), High Elves (LD8)

Autowin
Skaven (LD 5), Orcs (LD7) and Goblins (LD6) , Beastmen (LD5), Bretonnia (LD5), Empire (LD7), Lizardmen (LD7)

[anglais]

I disagree with this.
Daemons, while being ItP are very dependant on Ld. Furies have ld 2. all their troops have ld 7, thus even redirection of charges is really difficult with them under shroud.
Same with vampires. marching/redirection is really critical as the army is generally very slow and the basic ld is low.
TK are not interesting, as they are just weak.

in terms of the list, I see that you need to generate as many LD tests as possible. Most tests are not terror, but panic/movement. So I would trade terror causers to Ld test generators.

[Lord Drakon]

Main LD test in my eyes would be fear tests, as they have a direct outcome to the combat -> less hits done by enemy -> winning combat -> breaking enemy. I agree with you that especially in movement phase it allows for a lot of possibilities, so dark riders are perfect for core.

[anglais]

Combath starts on turn 2-3, if you are lucky. So maxing fear is something that I cannot buy

[toots]

Basically, I think this is a great list versus armies that aren't immune to psych. Dwarves and lizardmen perhaps not so much either.

I think a better tournament list would be to simply use death magic with doom & darkness and plenty of fear/terror causers. Call it 'fear bomb lite':

Death hag w/ cry of war, bsb, cauldron, movement banner,
28 witch elves, razor banner, FC

5 coks, standard musician, flaming banner

2x 5 DRs, musician. Shields crossbows

35 execs, standard, musician, lichebone pennant

K beast

Level 4, dispel scroll, cloak of twi and obsidian trinket. Dark steed. Death Magic

5 harpies

5 warlocks

2 RBTs