2400 points list focussed on Melee with mediocre Magical sup

[geostig]

So first of all, I've suffered countless amounts of defeats and victories are countable on one hand with 5 fingers or less. I've come here to find resolve and for others with a passion for experimenting through the Dark elves army list with sufficient things to do. I prefer, to be able to use EVERY possible, little thing that an army has to offer me.
But I keep getting my ass handed to me by more experienced and knowledged players- no matter what I face, I seem to be doing this wrongly in an enormous huge level and I'm here to make the proper compositions and possible tactical discussion to get what I want done, to be done in all its possible grace.


I am by standards, a huge fan of Melee (Close Combat) situations in every aspect of games and whatelse not. Warhammer is certainly no exception, but I have come to realise that if I want to have a decent chance at actually getting into melee without my entire army being snuffed, I am forced to take magical support.

Now, I do know that Dark elves have quite a possibility in ranged options too, but I really am stubbornly aiming for Reaperless army lists, no darkshards either. The only thing I'd allow would be shades and dark riders for their tactical advantage at mobility.

So for an actual list that I've come up with since another loss I suffered: This is what I currently got in mind without knowing who to face.
(Do keep account for the fact that I lack an enormous amount of experience and I wouldn't have any clue to certain words that are simply the name of models/units or mini-tactical compromised words.)

I also Love playing characters by too much so I understand if some things in my idealistic perception aren't valid for many, but I'd like to see the positive side of things, the stuff I COULD do with the right handling.

Lords:
A high beastmaster on a Manticore with the steel skin upgrade, mainly for picking out the right fights and to massacre.
He wields the obsidian blade and the other trickster's shard.

Black ark fleetmaster with a talisman of preservation and an enchanted shield for prolonging challenges and granting a unit a sweet unbreakable while the unit hacks away. (The idea here is to put it in a unit of Executioners or something with a good punch and too valueable to have it break too easily in melee.)

--------------------------

(My last list had 2 Death hags and a bsb master, but the ranged crushed me so my current ideas are kinda shallowed out for the Heroes choice.)
A level 2 sorceress with a dispell scroll seems mandatory so there's that. I haven't decided on a decent lore yet for that matter either.

Special:

A warhydra seems a good choice, or two with the fiery breath upgrades taken on both.

(Other things are open to suggestion regarding the space left in points with all of that.)
(Might also go Black guards with Khouran as hero to fill up another unbreakable unit.)

Core:

(Non taken yet but I am thinking about fielding the Ark fleetmaster in with Witch elves perhaps. Another viable thing could simply be Dark riders for the mobility and decent armor save.)

Well that's that for now. I've ran a blank after another insurpassable loss that bashed away my confidence in playing this game with out-of-meta choices. By all means, I'd like to be able to friendly discuss and make some brutal ideas possible in terms of army lists that revolve around a good, heavy melee that actually manages to make a single round of close combat possible if anything. xD;

(A funny idea that got shot down in my previous match was a bit of a deathstar-trap to myself, had 2 deathhags in 1 unit with bsb, witch brew, rune of khaine on the one wielding obsidian blade, the other wearing the Ogre blade. I just didn't got to executing it one bit. ^^;)

Anything goes, assassins with whacky funky equips, a lord with the hydra blade, go mad with suggestions and by all means help me in every way possible. I am here to learn and gather knowledge for future games where I can have the best out of a proper positioning and strategic handling in everything, I got immensely many questions and a passion for (no fashion!) experimenting in all the kinds of stuff that the dark elves got to offer me.

I'd rather not be solely ''depending'' on one thing, since that'd be a major issue if it got snuffed before it can do anything, obviously But all right.

That's that for now, lets hear it folks!

[marcopollo]

If you like heavy melee then I suggest you look up list under the "two towers" headings. Simply put, you have a unit of witch elves (~20-25) with a cauldron of blood, and you have a unit of something else with a bloodwrack shrine. Typically this is a unit of executioners or blackguard or corsairs, but could also include Sisters of slaughter or even cold one knights (my preference).

Fleetmasters are generally seen as a very poor choice for a variety of reasons. And unbreakable is almost as good as stubborn on ld 10 with rerolls from the BSB. So having the crown of command or using blackguard is a good option.

I get that you don't like reapers. But they are very efficient for their points. I urge you to consider taking two.

Part of the problem that I find with infantry armies is that they are too slow and can be thunderstomped. Having good Reapers helps thwart those big monsters.

I too like the close combat portion of the game and I am glad to play DE. ASF and murderous prowess is a real treat. But if my army gets molested before it gets to fight, then that is a real bummer of an evening. To remedy this, I take alot of cavalry. CoK, DR and things like manticores and pegmasters are all fast and hardhitting. With DE, you want you guys in a fight, but you gotta get them there first. So I sacrifice a little combat potency for speed. Taking two rounds of shooting is better than taking three or even four. So I try to devise schemes that allow me to get into combat as fast as possible. Or, if I don't like a certain match-up, I want to have the ability to avoid it when needed.

The manticore is cool. But it is easily shot down and so if you are going to take him, better make sure that your opponent has other targets that make the manticore less of a priority. That means including pegmasters, hydra, kharidyss, Bloodwrack shrine, and shades.

[geostig]

I agree on it completely, I used to do those things with the Cauldron and tower here and there but I simply lacked what it needed to really give a whoomp.

Err, I was typing a reply earlier but I was forced to relog so Here's a short review of what I typed.


I got a beastmaster now with an enchanted shield, obsidian blade, other trickster's shard. (30 points left on him so probably going for 5+ ward save or dawnstone.)

Manticore with steel upgrade.

BSB Master with ring of hotek, Sorceress lv 2 with dispell scroll.

Kouran for black guard unit of 20, which also wear razor standard with a champion, a warhydra with fiery breath.


10 Doomfire warlocks, champ.

40 bleakswords, full command, 10 dark riders with a champion.


SO yeah! I got 128 points left to spend, and I wouldn't be taking a single Reaper with the lack of points. =p

[Sangfroid]

I too prefer to see the whites of my enemies eyes and also do not take any reaper bolt throwers, but accept that like MIkaelk says that this is a small handicap on myself.

A typical combat army for me would have some fast stuff and some hitting stuff, here's the list I took to Bjorn last November and worked well until I choked and let myself get screamed to death :-)

Lord Sangfroid (Dreadlord): Ogre Blade; Armour of Destiny; Dragonbane Gem; Potion of Foolhardiness; shield; Sea Dragon cloak; Dark Steed 271
Feu (Supreme Sorceress): Staff Of Sorcery; Ring of Hotek; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Dark Magic 305

Dalandas (Master): Cloak of Twilight; heavy armour; lance; Sea Dragon cloak; shield; Dark Pegasus 188
Soscha (Death Hag): Obsidian Blade; Rune of Khaine; Battle Standard 200
• Cauldron of Blood 190

15 Black Ark Corsairs: repeater handbows; Reaver; musician; standard bearer 195
15 Black Ark Corsairs: repeater handbows; Reaver; musician; standard bearer 195
5 Dark Riders: shields; repeater crossbows; musician 110
5 Dark Riders: shields; repeater crossbows; musician 110

24 Black Guard of Naggarond: Tower Master; musician; standard bearer (Razor Standard) 435

8 Doomfire Warlocks 200

2,399 points

The list was comped under Swedish so playing Uncomped you could take what you wanted, I personally like having good shooting so opt for the corsairs but you could easily switch these out for witches to flank the blackguard (and once they engage if within 6 inches get most of the benefits) also metal, death, shadow or life magic could be taken instead of dark, I just like the flexibility of dark magic in a all comers list. Also blackguard can be swithced for execs, sisters, witches even AHW corsairs.

Manticore is a current counoundrum for me I took him along as a BSB to SCGT and he actually performed quite well though I did also have a dragon lord who took the focus off him. I do think I'd need to go beasts magic with one as I missed the strength 6 once engaged with armour if I take him again. I also would consider upgrading him to high beast master for the extra magic item allowance but if I did I would consider this as kit

Dragonhelm, black amulet, other tricksters shard.

I know it only gives st5 on the charge but you then have 2+ 4++ save on the HBM also as you will find you are often charging Knights, infantry who want to challenge you out meaning you can really cause characters problems, also as the marti has killing blow you get them to reroll their only save again t it. lastly as I said above I think you need beast magic with the manti so you should be able to buff up Str anyway with either wildform or savage beasts.

Hope this all helps

[Dragonarmy]

Welcome to posting at dnet!

My advice is to rethink your heroes and lords.

You've mentioned several of the weakest heroes and there are several lvl 4 and dreadlord options that are very scary!

[geostig]

I do take every little bit of advice for as granted as possible- though also the fact that I'll try out every choice with suitable experimental armies will remain unchanged, I will gladly try out all what was just said in the regards of an epic, if not stable, melee clashly battle.

Thank you for now, I'll probably post up other stuff once I've done a couple of matches to see where I do things right, or horribly wrong. xD

[Lord hajjij]

Now I realize that the desire to go against the "net list" and to be a special snowflake is quite strong with many people - myself included. However, you can certainly accomplish this without just tossing all of the "sub optimal" units/heroes into your list, just so you can say that it's original.

Many things in the list can work, and work well - but you have to have a plan. It's the Druchii way.

Let's start with Fleetmaster/Kouran Darkhand - Unbreakable sounds awesome but it's completely overrated most of the time. The reason is simply - why are you spending a ton of points for it, and expecting to lose combat? You should using your points to help ensure you win combats, not lose them. This is a precision army, where the idea is to bring overbearing force to one point while trying to avoid what will beat you. Dark Elf leadership and BSB re-rolls are enough. Granted, there are times where it's great to have but you need a plan. And not just a plan A, but a plan B/C as well.

Example: Fleetmaster with 2+/4++ in a unit of Bleakswords/Dreadspears/Corsairs.

Plan A: Engage deathstar character/unit and tarpit so it can be flanked by hard hitting Chariots/Kharibdyss
Plan B: Engage deathstar character/unit and tarpit it, unsupported, for the majority of the game so it can't win it's points back.
Plan C: No good enemy target for Plan A/B exists, so Fleetmaster is now deployed on his own in hopes opponent can't resist shooting at a lone Lord level character (reducing the amount of fire your other units take) & unit becomes a sacrificial/redirector unit. You could also use them to double flee and cause failed charges to expose units.

Now, would another unit be better/cheaper than that and perform the same tasks? Probably. It's why people think the Fleetmaster sucks. But he has a sick model and I do believe originality counts. You can make him work.


Now let's think - what are you using the High Beastmaster on Manticore for? I use a Sorceress on Manticore in almost all my lists, and it's definitely not a "standard" or "optimal" choice but I know exactly what I'm doing with it so it works pretty well. Once you think about that, should you really be going with a Dreadlord? Should you really be using a Dark Pegasus or Black Dragon? Should you change your magic item kit?


Good luck out there. Hope this helped a bit.

[Mikael.k]

I too prefer to see the whites of my enemies eyes and also do not take any reaper bolt throwers, but accept that like MIkaelk says that this is a small handicap on myself.

A typical combat army for me would have some fast stuff and some hitting stuff, here's the list I took to Bjorn last November and worked well until I choked and let myself get screamed to death :-)

Lord Sangfroid (Dreadlord): Ogre Blade; Armour of Destiny; Dragonbane Gem; Potion of Foolhardiness; shield; Sea Dragon cloak; Dark Steed 271
Feu (Supreme Sorceress): Staff Of Sorcery; Ring of Hotek; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Dark Magic 305

Dalandas (Master): Cloak of Twilight; heavy armour; lance; Sea Dragon cloak; shield; Dark Pegasus 188
Soscha (Death Hag): Obsidian Blade; Rune of Khaine; Battle Standard 200
• Cauldron of Blood 190

15 Black Ark Corsairs: repeater handbows; Reaver; musician; standard bearer 195
15 Black Ark Corsairs: repeater handbows; Reaver; musician; standard bearer 195
5 Dark Riders: shields; repeater crossbows; musician 110
5 Dark Riders: shields; repeater crossbows; musician 110

24 Black Guard of Naggarond: Tower Master; musician; standard bearer (Razor Standard) 435

8 Doomfire Warlocks 200

2,399 points

The list was comped under Swedish so playing Uncomped you could take what you wanted, I personally like having good shooting so opt for the corsairs but you could easily switch these out for witches to flank the blackguard (and once they engage if within 6 inches get most of the benefits) also metal, death, shadow or life magic could be taken instead of dark, I just like the flexibility of dark magic in a all comers list. Also blackguard can be swithced for execs, sisters, witches even AHW corsairs.

Manticore is a current counoundrum for me I took him along as a BSB to SCGT and he actually performed quite well though I did also have a dragon lord who took the focus off him. I do think I'd need to go beasts magic with one as I missed the strength 6 once engaged with armour if I take him again. I also would consider upgrading him to high beast master for the extra magic item allowance but if I did I would consider this as kit

Dragonhelm, black amulet, other tricksters shard.

I know it only gives st5 on the charge but you then have 2+ 4++ save on the HBM also as you will find you are often charging Knights, infantry who want to challenge you out meaning you can really cause characters problems, also as the marti has killing blow you get them to reroll their only save again t it. lastly as I said above I think you need beast magic with the manti so you should be able to buff up Str anyway with either wildform or savage beasts.

Hope this all helps

Lovely list as usual Sangfroid Still, I´d probably put the BSB on the CoT master instead. BSB´s on cauldrons die way too easily IMO

[Sangfroid]

Your are probably right Mikaelk like I said I tried a mounted BSB for the first time in the lead up to the last tourney (on marti in stead of a peg) I found the mobile BSB really handy, and extra +1 res on the charge and also mobile bubble (18inches on the manti)

Think I may have been converted...... Does this mean I'll start taking RBT next (oh noes!)