How to make competitive MSU Executioner 2400 list ?

[Lord Drakon]

Hi, my favourite model is the old edition Executioner, and I have around 50 on foot, 10 on Cold Ones and 2 as handlers of Kharibdyss. Therefore I would love to make an competitive MSU list with three units of Executioners and two with Cold One Knights supported by Kharidyss

Characters
?

Core 600
?

Special
15 Executioners, Musician 170
15 Executioners, Musician 170
15 Executioners, Musician 170
5 Cold One Knights 150
5 Cold One Knights 150
?

Rare
Kharibdyss 160
10 Sisters of Slaughter, Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flames 190
?

1240 points left (600 core) to make it a strong MSU list. Do you guys have any suggestions ?

[Tactical Dark ELf]

Do you really prefer the old models to the new ones? I think there whole look and bone masks looks pretty sweet.
I was going to say drop the Kharibdyss and Cok but then you said you want them together.
Okay , thats a lot of high strength units at strength 6 and Kharibdyss at 7. Against Bretonnia it would be a pain to play against. Thats really not a lot of attacks when you think about it.
If it had to be MSU styled

For core I would fill up on Dark Riders and a unit of witchbrewed WE.
13 Witch Elves, full command.
5 Dark Riders, shields, Xbows, muscian
5 Dark Riders, shields, Xbows, musician

Rare
Try and fit a small unit of warlocks in there somehow!
Characters
Lord
Level 4 Supreme Sorceress, Death. Dispel scroll. Obsidian Lobestone.
Hero
Death Hag, witchbrew (can also be BsB)

The SS goes with the Dark riders
Deathhag provides more attacks and makes the small WE unit more dangerous. Always go 7 wide. Getting 38 attacks combined. With lots of other MSU and Dark riders there wont be much chaff have to charge anyway.

[tehnico]

Hi, my favourite model is the old edition Executioner, and I have around 50 on foot, [...]

I'm with you Lord Drakon. I prefer the prestigious looking executioners of old. I've only got 35, they're tough to find and expensive to acquire now. The draich's are nicer, the stances are nicer, and they're just more classy to me. I consider the skull mask guys to be over the top and outrageous, and I just can't take them seriously.

I've seen some really nice conversions both in box using the black guard heads instead, and out of box with wood elf bits. The skull masks are very polarizing.

I've been tempted to try an MSU with executioners for a while now. But I remember how fast a unit of 15 die and I'm afraid to even try.

Nothing says loving like a hoard of executioners with Tullaris, a LVL2 Sorc with Power of Darkness & Word of Pain, and a wailing banner. Terror causing 40+ S7 KB attacks vs. a neutered WS, Init, and strength. Give the sorceress an MR item, block the gun lines on your approach, and they will win you so many battles.

So, as you can see, I don't see how useful small units will do for you unless you can manage lots of flank attacks, and static combat res. So bring full command in every block and lots of small horsey units/shades/harpies. Executioners do not make for excellent chaff.

[marcopollo]

I would use alot of shooting as core with some shades. Shades to slow the enemy advance while distracting chaff. 10 elf DR units with xbows and shields for flanking harrassing purposes, and some RBT's for those big gribblies that will T-stomp you execs into the dust. For your lore, death is pretty decent, but metal/life for a big 6 spell that will nuke deathstars ... which will be a major problem for MSU lists.

[T.D.]

I would use alot of shooting as core with some shades. Shades to slow the enemy advance while distracting chaff. 10 elf DR units with xbows and shields for flanking harrassing purposes, and some RBT's for those big gribblies that will T-stomp you execs into the dust. For your lore, death is pretty decent, but metal/life for a big 6 spell that will nuke deathstars ... which will be a major problem for MSU lists.

+1!

You want your opponent to come to you and your Draichs, so that means shooting galore to force them to. I'd max out on RBT with shades to support.

You also want something to deal with with what your Executioners can't, so Witches, Rxb, Hydra for horde thinning and units like Warlocks, Chariots, Knights, Peg Riders, Dark Riders for board control and support of your Execs.

I'd probably try either MSU Execs backed by mobility (like your first list), or one big Exec "Anvil" supported by two little complementary infantry units (i.e. Witches, SoS, Shades).

[Lord hajjij]

***I think I might have 20ish old Executioner models (most/all are primed and some painted so you'd have to strip them) that I'd be willing to sell/trade at a fair price to anyone interested. Shoot me a PM.***

Overall I like the idea here, but why units of 15? By the way, 15 Executioners is 180 points before command, so 170 with musician doesn't add up

You have solid hitting power, but without re-rolls to hit on a lot of your attacks (Cold Ones, Executioners) you don't have *reliable* hitting power against massed infantry troops. What I mean by that, is you have a much better chance to flub your attacks with no re-rolls to hit and that can really suck against things like Skavenslaves, Goblins, State Troops, etc.

So basically, what T.D. said. Get a Hydra, Witch Elves, Corsairs, RBT, RxB. I'd dump the Sisters. I also like Cold One Chariots a lot though they get a bad wrap around here. You could even model the charioteers as Executioners too!

Something like:

10 Darkshards
10 Darkshards
5 Dark Riders
14 Witch Elves
12 Executioners
12 Executioners
12 Executioners
5 CoK
5 CoK
Hydra
3 RBT or a couple units of 5-9 Shades
5 Warlocks

That's running you around 2100 points, the rest could get you a couple of characters. For magic, I recommend one of my staples which is a Level 2 sorceress on Pegasus with Tome of Furion. (190 points) You could cheap out and go with a Dark Steed also. With an MSU army, I think you can get away with no scroll because you don't have a Death Star unit needing protection.

[marcopollo]

MSU never really got off the ground in 8th edition. Atleast not like it did in 7th edition. That has to do with three major rule changes. One was that units attack in two ranks, two the "step-up" rule and three, steadfast with big ranks. Combat blocks must grind opponents down, which will mean that they will take casualties more frequently. Also, cavalry units won't be able to just point and click their targets and break them due to overwhelming combat res. They will also have to fight protracted combats more frequently.

This has caused the avereage size of a game to grow by 20 - 25%. The old average was 2000 pts and is now 2400 or 2500 pts.
Too much MSU causes shooters to have too many obstacles to fire over or around. And smaller units aren't able to last. If you want to play MSU, you really need mobility so that you are certain of picking the right battles and avoiding those you cannot win. Infantry does not accomplish this well.

There is a reason why the Swedish comp system starts to penalize your units the bigger they get, becuase the bigger they get the harder it is to take points of away from it.