500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Get critiqued on your latest army here...

Moderator: The Dread Knights

Post Reply
Flam1ng0
Slave on the Altar
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:53 am
Location: Australia

500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by Flam1ng0 »

Hi folks!

I am starting a campaign with Dark Elves. I have composed a few 500 point lists, although being new to Dark Elves I am not 100% familiar with the army (hopefully this campaign should help change that). I would prefer an all-rounder force (or as close to one as possible at 500 points), but if it helps my main opponents will be Warriors of Chaos, Undead and Ogre Kingdoms.

List One
Master w/ Heavy Armour, SDC, Enchanted Shield & Sword of Might (105)
14 Corsairs w/ AHW (154)
10 Darkshards (120)
10 Executioners (120)
TOTAL (499)

List Two
Same except switch the Executioners for a Cold One Chariot, 5 points less than List One.

I would love suggestions for this list. The only thing I already possess in these lists are the Corsairs, thus I am reluctant to not use them. As for everything else, I have yet to buy it, although I am trying to ball with a budget here (Australia is not cheap :cry: ) and the Master would likely be a kitbash. I have been undecided in particular on whether to take Executioners, Cold One Chariots or Dark Riders (which could also fill the Darkshards place possibly).

Finally, I also possess a Sorceress, however I am kind of reluctant to use magic at 500 points (the Master is much more survivable). If you are wondering, the campaign is set in the Southlands, and I am making lots of themed objective bases and even a fluffy unit filler for my Corsairs!

Thanks in advance,

Flam1ng0.
Lokhir
-..v_v..Lokhir Fellheart
-..(--)..Conqueror
..U( )U.of Ind
IcemanDraich
Trainee Warrior
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:32 am

Re: 500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by IcemanDraich »

The model for the master can easy be a corsair with an helmed head and a shield if you can find that spare parts.


Core: 6 DR Shield/RxB musician or standard bearer your choiche (130 pts)
Rare: 5 Doomfire Warlock 125
General: Master HA, SDC, Shield, Lance, Dark Steed (98 pt)

U got 147 remaining points for any unit you like (Executioners, Shades, Corsairs)

I probably stick with Shades with Great Wepons (basic cost of 90)

Your plan: Harass the enemy with magic and shooting, combine charge to finish them.

The advantage is that your army will be extremely mobile, disadvantage not so many bodies.
User avatar
DarkSky
Corsair
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:20 pm
Contact:

Re: 500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by DarkSky »

The question is how friendly you want your list to be.

IcemanDraich's suggestion of the Warlocks is certainly a very strong option, but your opponent will hate you for it, as the unit is overpowered as hell as it combines Fast Cavalry, 2nd level caster with miscast protection, poisonous high T killer and a strong defense with ward save.

This said, I like your original list, but would swap the Darkshards for DarkRiders and put the Master on Dark Steed or maybe even Cold One. If your opponent does not have a template weapon he doesn't need the "Lookout, Sir" roll and the Cold One gives him +2 armour. This would also free some point to add a musician to either Corsairs or Executioners.
My Blog containing battle reports and painting updates: https://bleaklegion.wordpress.com
Flam1ng0
Slave on the Altar
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:53 am
Location: Australia

Re: 500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by Flam1ng0 »

Hey, thank you for the replies!

IcemanDraich, that list sounds super competitive, and I plan to have both units eventually. But my campaign scene is a friendly one, and I'd like to keep some while I'm at it !lol!

DarkSky, I like your suggestion about swapping the Darkshards for Dark Riders, they add some much appreciated mobility to the force. It also keeps the Executioners in, which I like as they are effective against WoC and I plan on possibly using one as the basis for my Master! As for the suggestion of mounting him on a Cold One, I am uncertain yet as to do that or not. It sounds awesome and potentially destructive at this point level, but I was originally considering him to be in the Corsairs unit.

Anyway, with a bit of tweaking (and consideration of suggestions):

Master w/ HA, SDC, Shield, SoM and Cold One (114)
14 Corsairs w/ AHW (154)
5 Dark Riders w/ Shields and RxB (100)
10 Executioners (120)
TOTAL (488)

This leaves me with 12 points to play with, so where would a musician (or similar upgrade) be best used?

Thanks!
Lokhir
-..v_v..Lokhir Fellheart
-..(--)..Conqueror
..U( )U.of Ind
User avatar
herpesFree
Trainee Warrior
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:37 am

Re: 500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by herpesFree »

You could drop the sword of might and shield and give your master a halberd for the same +1 strength. I don't think cavalry get a parry save and you already have a 1+ AS with him mounted on a cold one so you'll get the same result for 21 points cheaper. You could then spend 33 points on whatever you like :D (the Dawnstone could be a powerful combo with his 1+ AS)
Flam1ng0
Slave on the Altar
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:53 am
Location: Australia

Re: 500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by Flam1ng0 »

herpesFree, that sounds like an awesome idea! Halberd also doesn't take away his ASF if I'm right. The Dawnstone sounds very cool, or for that amount of points I could get musicians in all 3 units or a standard bearer in my Executioners with Banner of Eternal Flame. Any suggestions on which way to go with this?

The more ideas people are throwing to me about the Master on Cold One, the more I am warming to this guy! :mrgreen:

Thanks!
Lokhir
-..v_v..Lokhir Fellheart
-..(--)..Conqueror
..U( )U.of Ind
IcemanDraich
Trainee Warrior
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:32 am

Re: 500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by IcemanDraich »

Well if you want a friendly list i think that your is pretty good.

Executioners are really good in close combat, but at least try to play them wider (7x2) or (6x2) to maximise their attacks.

Corsairs too are better if played wider. Unless u need steadfast.

I think the best compromise could be 12 corsairs and 12 executioners.

12 corsairs AHW + stb (6x2) 142 pt
12 executioners + stb (6x2) 154 pt
5 dark riders 100 pt

That leves you 104 pt for a master.

The halberd on cold one is good as is one with lance and shield on a dark steed (98 pts)

I think that standard bearer into the units is too good to pass up (+1 to combat res is nothing to sneez at) and having 12 models instead of 10 let you check panic on 3 instead on 2 deaths.

For the master i think that magic weapon isn't needed. Keep him chep.
User avatar
Daeron
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 3975
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:36 pm
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Contact:

Re: 500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by Daeron »

Although the cold one is a good mount, I'd propose the dark steed instead. It's cheaper, offers more mobility and it doesn't have stupidity. By putting the master on a cold one, he and his entire unit become subject to stupidity. If it's a dark rider unit, they lose fast cavalry bonuses. They also drop to movement 7. It's a really good choice if you keep him in a unit of cold ones, but if you want more flexibility, then a dark steed would be recommended.
In many cases the armour save of the cold one is not needed:
- Heavy Armour (+2 AS)
- Sea Dragon Cloak (+2 AS)
- Mount (+1 AS)
- Mundane or magical shield (+1 AS, forces 1H weapon) or Dragon Helm (+1 AS, available for 2H weapon)
This gives you a 1+ armour save which is the limit.

Considering your army, I'd consider these builds that add a unique roll to your list.
Ethereal Fighter - Master, Dark Steed, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Sword of Might, Dawnstone, Charmed shield
If he is your main strength against ethereal beings, then he best have a magic weapon to grant him magical attacks. Most ethereal beings are 'weak' with a T3 and so a Sword of Might is enough.
It gives him 3+ to hit, with reroll, 2+ to wound, with reroll (murderous prowess rerolls 1s) and no armour save. He is pretty good in defense, and should be able to duke it out with weak to moderate infantry on his own. Against elite infantry, he'll likely need support but he might be able to keep up for a round or two.

Grinder - Master, Dark Steed, Heavy armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Great Weapon, Dawnstone, Dragonhelm, Other Trickster Shard.
Increased strength (at the cost of the re-roll) and forcing to re-roll ward saves can help to take out a variety of units that may otherwise prove difficult for you to tackle. Against T4 (or more) and higher armour saves, this build will outweigh the benefits of the reroll.
You lose the re-rolls on the hit so fluffing is a risk, especially with 3 attacks only. But he should hit most units on a 3+.
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
Flam1ng0
Slave on the Altar
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:53 am
Location: Australia

Re: 500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by Flam1ng0 »

Wow, this is awesome! So nice going on a forum and getting tons of helpful advice!

IcemanDraich, I like the list you suggested and your reasoning for it. I'm making unit fillers as it is anyway, so it wouldn't be a problem for me to whip up a few characterful bases to beef up the unit size! Having 104 points left to spend on a Master is also a boon, and one that I am unused to coming from playing two rather point-expensive forces (OK and WE).

Daeron, your experience with the Druchii clearly shows in your message, as both of those builds sound awesome! Thankfully I won't be facing any ethereal units, so the first build might not be so necessary. I like the second build, but he comes in at a whopping 144 points (thanks to ET rules he is now viable at 500 points)! This would mean that other areas in the list would have to change, this is what I am thinking with this build:

Daeron's Grinder Master (144)
12 Corsairs w/ AHW (132)
5 Dark Riders w/ Shields and RxB (100)
10 Executioners (120)
TOTAL (496)

While I like this, he is quite expensive (plus I managed to score a Cold One during a trade a couple of hours ago haha). I'd be very likely to move towards this build when the points level increases however.

With the Cold One build, I was considering running him solo, as my opponents have little to nothing in the way of ranged attacks (both shooting and magic). Would this be wise? My concerns are that despite the awesome save, the Master is still W2 and T3, even he is quite capable in combat.

Atm though, taking into factor that I am a WYSIWYG player at heart, I am looking at:

Master w/ HA, SDC, Halberd and Cold One (94)
12 Corsairs w/ AHW and SB (142)
5 Dark Riders w/ Shields and RxB (100)
12 Executioners w/ SB (154)
TOTAL (490)

This leaves me with 10 points to spare, so further suggestions and insights are welcome.

Thanks fellow Druchii!
Lokhir
-..v_v..Lokhir Fellheart
-..(--)..Conqueror
..U( )U.of Ind
User avatar
Daeron
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 3975
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:36 pm
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Contact:

Re: 500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by Daeron »

I'm not -that- experienced heh. I'm mediocre at best :P
10 points -> Musician on the dark riders. It gives them +1 to rally which is an important bonus as the dark riders are fast cavalry. They are favoured for blocking an enemy unit, fleeing if charged, and rallying only to harass them again.

If you really are going with the Master on Cold One, I don't think it's bad idea to swap the executioners for 5 Cold One Knights. It's a trade-off though. The executioners are a fun choice as well. And just because your Master is riding a mount, doesn't mean he -has- to be deployed in the Dark Rider unit. He loses his roll for "Sir look out!" so he best come with a charmed shield to stop the first cannon shot aimed at him.
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
IcemanDraich
Trainee Warrior
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:32 am

Re: 500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by IcemanDraich »

The best item to make your master last longer is with any doubt the Dawnstone.
Even against s6 attacks he got a nice 4+ armor save (50% chanche to avoid the wound) if you put the dawnstone on him that chance become 75%.

Think that if you equip him with Armor of Fortune/Talisman of Preservation the save chance is still 75% against s6 but become worse against s5/4 and come to a really higher price, indeed is better against things that ignore armor so stay away from KB.

I don't think you will face many things that ignore the Armor Save at 500 points, the only thing to fear is Searing Doom. If you think that you are gonna face someone that bring metal: Dragonhelm or Dragonbane Gem are the solutions (they become really scary items if someone bring a flaming banner that mean your general should be able to solo them)

Another interesting items is the Charmed Shield that for only 3 point more than a normal shield give your general another wound (2+ to avoid a wound, single use)

I agree with Dareon that Dark Steed is mileage superior to a Cold One for many reason, cold one is indeed a cooler model i'll tell you what you lose and what you gain but if you'll chose the dinosaur no one will blame you (execept yourself :P)

Cold One gives you:
+ 1 attack
+ 1 Armor
Stregth 4
Stupidity

What that means?

The armor is cool but you gain 1+ with just the mundane shield on the Dark Steed that close the gap in point cost 12 vs 12.

The attack comes at ws 3 that mean you are gonna hit on 4+ as the horse so 50% of the attacks will hit.

Strenght 4 will mean that you will wound most targets on 4+/3+ so another 50%/66%

Most of the infantry come with a 5+/4+ armor assume that they are 4+ shield and HA, they will save 33% of the wounds.

We won't take into account parry and ward saves.

In the end your mount have 16% chanche for attack to kill a guy (T4 AS 4) so with 2 attacks he need 3 turns of combat to kill one model. If you are against WoC, Ogres, Dwarves the chanches are lower while against skavens, skeletons that chanche will be much higher.

The dark steed got the same ws but only one attack and only str 3 that mean he have 8% chanche for attack to kill a guy.

In the end the cold one is 4 time better than the horse at kill most things but that will be something like 2 deaths any match.

Stupidity: Your master have ld 9 so the chance to fail are low but when you fail you will skip the move phase and that 6 inches movement could bring you in a bad spot. The chanche to fail is 8,3% if i'm right (dareon correct me if i'm wrong should be 3/36 right?)

That mean you can fail one time every 3 match supposing you get only 2 move phase. But because shiz happens that could mean that you fail 2 times in a row every 3 matches.

Dark Steed:

Movement 9
Fast Cavalry
Vanguard
Swiftstride

Calculation are hard to make but what you get is:
A) A better charge range
B) An initial potential move of 30"
C) The ability to move 4" more than the cold one
D) The ability to flee safer
E) You can join your Dark Riders and they don't lose fast cavalry (that is the thing that make them so awesome)

I think that because that game sometimes is a gamble, and if you need the help of your general to get a critical rear charge and he:

A) Fail is stupidity test
B) Roll a poor charge

You will yell: "Damned Dinosaur!!!"

Getting back to the list:

The only big thing that you can do to change it is dropping a unit to bring something else.

If you are restricted to bring 3 units to the table the alternatives are:

1) Shades: They are the best shooting unit DE can have, are supermobile and are good flankers with either AHW or GW. Don't bother with the light armor upgrade and save points. They are squishy but hard to shoot unless a cavalry unit focus on catch them. 90 points are many for just 5 footed guys but having skirmish and scouts let them shoot from the start and stay out of LoS of the enemies. Into close combat they are better than corsairs but lesser protected. The models are easy to make with conversions, corsairs with different cloack or warriors with different heads or as you like them the most.

2) Darkshards: Darkshards are meh! But are durable fighters with the ability to shoot. They have to be played defensively getting charged by units into a stubborn formation.
Their cost is what make them meh choiche. Since you want at least a unit of 15 with musician and shield that come at 190 points.

3) Witch Elves: If you want to be cheesy replace corsairs with them. They are naked bitches and even 12 of them are gonna rip most enemies apart.

4) Sisters of Slaughter: They simply rock hard. Check Drakon posts about them. 150/160 points.

5) Cold One Knights: Give them the standard of Discipline or the Gleaming Pennant for 175/165 points. Replace Exexutioners. The advantage over Execs is their staying power, they are really hard to bring down because 2+ armor is amazing. I'm not a big fun of them but at 500 point they could work well. Throw your Master on Cold One into them and you got 8 rerollable str 6 on the charge and 17 str 4 from the mounts. Execs are 14 bodies for 178 points and bring 14 str 6 (17 if we take master into account). Probably on the resolution CoK will be higher because of the mitigation.

6) Dark Elf Warriors: Probably the worst unit of DE but since we are talking about a 500 point game they can work well. Bleakswords in my opinion are better than Dreadspears because they keep the ward save (if dreadspears can act as bleakswords on the charge than dreadspears are better but i don't know the exact rules of that). You need a unit of 16 to make the best out of them. The cost for them is 144 pts. Formation 5x3.

7) Sorceress: U can decide to swap the master for a mage. A basic level 2 sorceress is 115 or 125 mounted.

8) Death Hag: Death Hag with witchbrew is only 115 points, come with no protection but your unit will be super aggressive.

So my alternative suggestions are:

The Anvil and The Hammer list:

16 Bleakswords 144
5 CoK 165
5 Shades 90
1 Cold One Master 101

Shades to take care of low armored units and for the rear charge.
Bleaksword/Dreadspears the anvil. CoK to hammer down from the flank.

The Ninja Team and the biatch

9 Dark Riders stb 190
5 Shades Great Weapon 90
5 Shades Great Weapon 90
1 Sorceress Mounted 125

I think that list have a great potential.
First of all it's super mobile against many enemies you could harass for days.
Second your shooting phase is a nice 38 shots on the march each turn.
Third if you go for Dark Lore: PoD make your Riders str 5 on the charge and 9 str 5 attacks are not so bad combined with the shades attacks that are str 5 too but your general is naked and in the front of bad boys that want her head, probably is better to keep doombolting them, if you can.

Dark best spells are doombolt, power of darkness and word of pain. Soulstealer is average.

Alterntively take AHW on the shades and the metal lore. Use metal to melt armor things. Or shadow lore hoping to get one hex at least.

Your mage can explode leaving you with only shades to win the battle so it's a risk but could be fun.

The Bitches Party:

1 Death Hag 115
10 Sisters of Slaughter 150
10 Witch Elves 110
10 Witch Elves 110

Put the hag into the sisters, run everithing 7x3.
Probably will be only a bloodbath but will be fun. Your front ranks combined put out 61 strikes. Only the front :) If you like rolling many dices.

Alternatively change Sisters with Executioners it's more competitive but less themed, skull guys in a party of women??

I've no more ideas for today ;) but 500 is a fun format with fast matches that don't last for days. Anyway i really love magic and will never leave home without it's the only thing that is unpredictable (for elves at least).

Hope that all that will help you with your final army.
User avatar
direweasel
Malekith's Personal Guard
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:58 pm
Location: Terre Haute, IN, USA

Re: 500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by direweasel »

Nothing wrong with any of the armies that have already been presented. But I would like to add my 2c anyway. And it can be summarized thusly:

WAR HYDRA

In small point games, these guys are unstoppable.

Thank you, that is all. :)
Chinese Relativity Axiom: No matter how glorious your triumphs, nor how miserable your failures, there will always be at least one billion people in China who don't give a damn.

Apocalypse Drow! Plog: http://druchii.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=75360
Flam1ng0
Slave on the Altar
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:53 am
Location: Australia

Re: 500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by Flam1ng0 »

Wow, what a mountain of helpul advice!

Daeron, I'm taking into consideration adding a Charmed Shield or Ironcurse Icon if I choose to run him solo, something that offers him some sort of protection from war machines. However, I think I'm being thoroughly convinced to take him on Dark Steed- I shall run some practice games with him both on Cold One and Dark Steed to test him out, but maintaining fast cavalry if he joins the Dark Riders seems too good to pass on, even if the Cold One does look cooler (it's a freaking dinosaur! :lol: haha). I guess I could just proxy him for time being, they're on the same size base (meaning until I can find a spare Dark Steed or similar model to kitbash).

IcemanDraich, that's awesome, thank you so much for mathhammering the two mounts for me! I think you and Daeron have convinced me to go with the Dark Steed and Shield combo instead! Your suggestions have also given me ideas for my future additions to this force (Cold One Knights, Shades and Witch Elves in particular), and when I have some of this stuff, I would love to try out those lists (I love the sound of the hammer and anvil one). You certainly know your 500 point games! Also, I agree with Darkshards being a bit meh for their price, but that's partly from my Wood Elf experiences (while also expensive, can be kitted out for a lot of things).

direweasel, why you do this to me? !lol! I love that model and it would be awesome to find a place for it somewhere, but it will probably have to be a future addition.

So while I shall try the last lists I wrote up, with the suggestions you guys made I wrote this list also:

Master w/ HA, SDC, Shield, Lance and Dark Steed (98)
12 Corsairs w/ AHW and SB (142)
5 Dark Riders w/ Shields and RxB (100)
12 Executioners w/ SB (154)
TOTAL (494)

This leaves me 6 points to spend elsewhere, which I might use to upgrade the Master's shield. Alternatively, as I can't afford to give the Dark Riders a musician in this list, is it worth swapping out one of the SBs in the other units for it?

Please let me know what you think of this list!

Many thanks fellow Druchii! :D
Lokhir
-..v_v..Lokhir Fellheart
-..(--)..Conqueror
..U( )U.of Ind
User avatar
Daeron
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 3975
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:36 pm
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Contact:

Re: 500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by Daeron »

As the point size grows, a cold one build that's worth considering in larger games is:
- Dreadlord, Cold One, Sea Dragon Cloak, Armour of Destiny, Dawnstone, Other Trickster Shard, Great Weapon
1+ rerollable armour save, 4+ ward save, and S6 attacks. That build could make Daemon Princes cry.
But it's also a bit overkill :P
I love me a bowl of numbers to crunch for breakfast. If you need anything theoryhammered, I gladly take requests.

Furnace of Arcana, a warhammer blog with delusional grandeur.

"I move unseen. I hide in light and shadow. I move faster than a bird. No plate of armour ever stopped me. I strike recruits and veterans with equal ease. And all shiver at my coldest of whispers."
- The stiff breeze
Flam1ng0
Slave on the Altar
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:53 am
Location: Australia

Re: 500 points Dark Elves Campaign Starter

Post by Flam1ng0 »

Daeron, if someone is cruel enough to bring a Daemon Prince to the table then I don't mind making them cry, so I'd happily use it! :D
Lokhir
-..v_v..Lokhir Fellheart
-..(--)..Conqueror
..U( )U.of Ind
Post Reply