Advanced MSU -> the RUN (also a guide for beginners)

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Domodrew
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Post by Domodrew »

What I am really curious to know, is what number of Black Guard do people use, or talk about useing now that they have eteral hatred. I personaly think 12 because you can have a good frontage (especially with a Noble or Highborn)

I have been useing 12 Black guard for a while now, and they have been doing well for me, Stopping everything from Minatuars and Ogre's to Charriots and Chosen warriots of Khorn. So I was just curious ^_^
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Maelis
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Post by Maelis »

Im using 10 or 12 to minimalize eventual loss of this unit. They are wuite expenisive, but fragile - I dont want to see 30 of them perish.

I also use 6 wide frontage to max the number in 2nd turn. I belive that after the Revision BG are the masters of the 2nd turn when the backup comes on the flank.
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The highest driach-master
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Post by The highest driach-master »

It sounds good... I have do try it i the battle :D
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Post by Olaf_ironfoot »

I am going to test the use of Dark Emissaries and Fenbeasts in my partial MSU army this weekend. I believe the use of Fenbeasts could be essential in tying up certain units, because they have T5, S5, 4 wounds, regeneration, and are unbreakable. This, combined with the Emissaries ability to heal them, could be a great addition
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Lud von pipper
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Post by Lud von pipper »

Maelis:

What can I say?

I felt your is the right way to play DE since the beginning, when I started playing DE three months ago, and although I've just now read this article, I developed a tactic so close to your that my army could indeed be the same you play.

I always play AT LEAST 15 spearleves FC to ensure thay can stand a charge without allowing a break through, and I always support them with stronger units, like exec, Hydra or DR.

I tried playing pure MSU but it doesn't suits my taste: IMO, being compact is a strenght as well, since horde armies won't be able to exploit all their strenght, and important is having two different blocks: the infantry, staying back and waiting for the enemy to come, and a fast mounted block breaking through and aiming at my opponent shoulders.
I like to think of my army as a "bastard" version of standard MSU: a single stronger FC blocks, although never stronger then 3 ranks, mostly spearmen because they fight on 2 ranks, and small blocks with just a champ in them.
I like the idea of maximizing attacks because of the high AC of the DE, and this is always my main aim, although I think that 10 men blocks are too small and vulnerable to enemy fire: three casualities and you'll start taking tests (which I fail often).
I always aim at 12 blocks because of this and I ALWAYS limit FC to larger blocks because I don't like giving away 100pts for those standards.

I like flexibility, so all my DR units have crossbows and my RXB have shields.
I never use more then 2 RBT because I think it's rare to get access to more then 2 good firing positions inside the deployment zone without having your LOS ruined by terrain or your own troops so 2 RBT are enough IMO (and a single rare choice too).

I stopped using corsairs and witches because of their low strenght, just a personal taste, but I never use chivalries larger then 6 because I want every model in combat instead of having them iddling at the back of their pals.
Charriots are good, but Ld8 is too low to be reliable so i put the general on one of them and keep the other close (protection for the general mount and leadership for the trooper charriot).
Hitting an enemy unit twice will probably crush it and free your charriot for a break through move, and two charriots now come for a single special choice.
Hydra is indeed a monster, but not a common one: it acts more as a whole MSU unit, with better stats and a breath weapon, so i use her has a fulcrum for one of my flanks (wonderfull to keep light chivalries at bay)

I also think you should link THIS article to your because I think Redundancy and Advanced MSU mix wonderfully.

LvP
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Criti
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Post by Criti »

I love the Black Guard and have used a group 12 strong, with the 6 man frontage, 2 ranks setup in several games, and it has never done anything but serve me well. I was feeling a bit quirky a few games ago, so I decided to mix things up a bit. I let the measly Black Guard unit watch my ENTIRE right flank (a very inviting target for enemy charges), and lo and behold, I got charged there (only by some standard Orc Boyz though, double choppas)! I probably could have dealt with them, but I still let my Assassin reveal himself. Now, I'm not usually a fan of Assassins (not a big one), but this worked miracles for me. And after I demolished the Boyz, I let my Black Guard take on a unit of Black Orcs and won (mostly thanks to the Assassin). Anyway, I digress, and the real purpose of this post isn't even on the topic anymore...I just wanted to share that I am now a devote fan of Assassins...and now my opponents don't know whether or not to expect it to be jumping out of my Black Guard, or anywhere for that matter (I don't always use the same list).
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Mielkith
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Post by Mielkith »

im going to kick myself when i get the answer but what is MSU?
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Mielkith
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Post by Mielkith »

ignore that last question form me, (doh)
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Melekh the dark lord
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Post by Melekh the dark lord »

Call me dumb but WHAT THE HELL DOES MSU MEAN????
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Cerulaetas
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Post by Cerulaetas »

I don't see why you have to sacrifice units to get the enemy to charge you. Most of the people I play against have CC armies (dwarfs, vamp counts, brets, skaven) with the exception of possibly skaven and dwarfs (ok, so maybe that's not most). The vamp counts and brets definetly want to charge, and if they get within 10" they are going to get charged, which is bad for them, so of course they want to charge from as far away as possible.

So basically, you flee, and run out of their charge range, and they're set up to get smacked from 3 sides, and you didn't lose your unit. Sure, it's mainly good for attacking cavalry that you can lure out, but I really don't see why the unit has to die to draw a charge.
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Wolfsong
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Post by Wolfsong »

MSU= Multiple Small Units.
Daredhnu
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Post by Daredhnu »

personally i don't like the MSU tactic i like my units big and strong spearmen 20 elves strong all units 20 elves strong except for crossbows they are 10 strong but thats just my preferrence. and i too dislike sacrificing elves if had slaves i would toss them into the sacrificial pyres before my enemie could but still nice to have offcourse to show our superiority(or whatever)
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