Welcome posts and age

[Azure]

I just want to jump in and mention that to many, the "chatspeak" of rolfmao 1337!!!! begins to look like acronyms of important things like DoW or WE

This phenomenom causes a disregard of not using chatspeak because it is seemingly expected!

Azure

[Sotek]

You're right, Sotek, I'm sorry. I can be a bit of a verbal eletist at times. It doesn't mean I'm smarter than anyone, it just means I'm a Geek. I grew up as an only child and whenever I said to my parents "I'm bored" they said, jokingly, "read the dictionary!" The trouble is... I did. (I was one of those kids who didn't have a Nintendo, you see.) So almost as important as not writing incoherent sentences is to avoid writing verbose ones? I mean... convoluted ones? Urm... overly-complicated ones! Yes, that'll do.

Wow... it doesn't happen every day that someone tells me I'm right
But there's another thing. It could happen that you use difficult words and just aren't aware of the fact that someone might not understand you. Then it's helpful to ask that person to rephrase it...

How would knowing a person's age allow you to communicate with them better? Are you purposefully going to be condescending to anyone under a certain age, simply because they are of that age, rather than being always respectful as you ought to be? And if you want to say that you shouldn't have to be respectful because the n00bies are being stupid and not reading the FAQs, then that's being quite irresponsible on your part, because it is up to you (and other well established members of the site) to be good role models for the newer members of the site.

I think you are perfectly right there, (I forgot that the discussion was about this topic at first... )you shouldn't treat people differently when they are different in age; that would be discrimination.

Sotek

[Belial]

I perfectly understand why my post was deleted. IT was a risk I had to take

But as beforementioned, too strict rules might scare people away. Already the sites number of threads and replies is degrading. The site is, excuse me for saying this, becoming less and less interestig day by day.

I know rules say not to ask questions you could have had answered by a previous a topic. But if we become something close to "rules-extremists" then this for sure is NAggaroth... cold and uncompromising. This is supposed to be a community, and it is still a community under strict rules, but not a very nice one. '

*drags out cardbord box, and stands on it*
WE NEED FREEDOM!
*gets down again*

I know above seems jokingly... but I'm really serious: this site needs freedom. I am one of the users here that, perhaps naively because these was rules that existed before my membership, thinks it is ridicoulous we are not allowed to discuss anything RESEMBLING politics or religion. I do not see trouble rising up at asur.org, though those topics are allowed there.
(this perhaps belongs more to the Degrading quality of d.net topic, but...)
I think what needs rethinking is the rules, not the way we should behave. Of course, as a user it is your duty to uphold the rules, I agree with that. But perhaps sometimes the rules need revising, even if it is to bring the site back to something that went wrong once(here talking about the religion/politic again)


My oppinion.


And the pic: Somehow, it very well shows my point that thingsa are getting a bit prudent in here that it gets deleted.


-Belial

[Ansob.]

And the pic: Somehow, it very well shows my point that thingsa are getting a bit prudent in here that it gets deleted.

I just have one thing to say.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to tackle a site which has just under ten thousand registered members, and probably two thousand active ones?

[Asperon thorn]

Heh, I don't even like Chatspeak. . IN CHAT. If you type correctly all the time you learn how to type correctly fast enough to keep pace. As a matter of fact, before I started playing games ( almost 10 years ago.) online and I needed to type things like "Holy Cr**!! I need help on the right flank!" in real-time I was at a measly 20 wpm typing speed. After a year or so of needing to type such nonesense as requesting aid in a hurry I got up to 80 wpm.

So this laziness in chat only breeds poor habits, and doesn't do a thing to speed you up. Type correctly all the time.

Asperon Thorn

[Langmann]

The MAIN reason we ask people not to write posts in chatspeak or whatever you want to call crappy grammar is because:

WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO ACCIDENTLY THINK THEY ENDED UP ON THE GAMES WORKSHOP FORUM. And then get pissed off and leave because all they see are goofs and posers.

I'm done screaming. Be cool and quit poking at something that really isn't a big deal. As long as I can remember no-one ever got banned from here for chatspeak (except for Monarch but we let him back on ).

As to worrying about the site degrading, ask yourself (and this is to no-one in particular), "When was the last time I did a really good Warhammer post instead of worrying about silly issues? Or contributed to the monthly? Or posted an awesome picture of a painted model or mod, or posted a story or batrep?"

Hmmm?

[Kida]

The MAIN reason we ask people not to write posts in chatspeak or whatever you want to call crappy grammar is because:

WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO ACCIDENTLY THINK THEY ENDED UP ON THE GAMES WORKSHOP FORUM.

Hear, hear!

Thios forum and its users should try to keep up as high standard of posting as possible, and one of its main parts is decent spelling and proper usage of capital letters and punctuation.

Even if you're not a native speaker, your posts will look much more 'civilised' if everyone knows where actually each sentence begins and ends. If you do this, native speakers will tend to ignore our constant and tireless butchery of English spelling

[Azure]

just to add somehting, id be willing to help with a monthly or do a weekly tactics article focusing on 1 unit or 1 tactical move instead of being vaque about an entire army! all yo gotta do is ask because i am more then willing to help!

Azure

p.s. i swear i write decently when i capitalize my i's.. lol another habit to fight another day... tuesday that is!

[Lethalis]

all yo gotta do is ask because i am more then willing to help

In the New Users & Initiatives forum there's an invitation to join an Initiative, or write some freelance stuff

[Happy corsair]

I'm impressed to see that everyone so far seems to agree that age-based discrimination isn't good! Though maybe our sample is somewhat biased given that the main constituency of Warhammer players are young people, or at least people who can remember being young people not too long ago.

HC

[Sotek]

Though maybe our sample is somewhat biased given that the main constituency of Warhammer players are young people, or at least people who can remember being young people not too long ago.

Well, it could be true, but actually that's discrimination as well...

[Rork]

I think discrimination is from those "haves" to the "have-nots".

By which I mean rulebooks...just imagine if people actually thought that the core rules for the game were a fundamental requirement...

The world would be a better place!

[Belial]

As to worrying about the site degrading, ask yourself (and this is to no-one in particular), "When was the last time I did a really good Warhammer post instead of worrying about silly issues? Or contributed to the monthly? Or posted an awesome picture of a painted model or mod, or posted a story or batrep?"

A great point, I admit, and I fail very much at all those things. Reasons: 1. I have not really been active at warhammer for half a year now(which probably means I am at the wrong forum). 2. I have a "write-blockade"(no shiz) and have been totally unable to really produce anything creative to the "History of the druchii-forum". 3. I paint like crap. 4. I have tried to join an initiative, but did not suceed. There you have it. Since I have never been very good at warhammer, I cannot contribute to anything at Rules og armylist section. I usually loved the History forum, but I cannot write anything myself these days, and I have limited access to the internet, making it hard for me to rewiev stories by others. Painting and modeeling I could attend, though with conversions only, but the lack of a camera and actually being in the hobby for some time(which is because I simply do not have time). I cannot join an initiative unless I have any talents they can use.

Onw would then say: Then why be on the forum? I ask myself that these days. But I think it sad that unless you are good at any of the 4 above points the forum really offers limited interest. It is hard to be active at a forum, and keep finding it interesting, if you, for an example, as things are now only have things to do in the "Painting and moddeling" section.

Opening up the opportunity to discuss matters such as religion and politics may make it worthwhile for new members aswell to hang around here, as they wouldn't have to think it was... timeasting to check in here for few postgs only, when they could have it all, say at Asur.org. And if people are encouraged to stay, they post, not only about non-warhammer topics, but also the warhammer topics, as there are sufficient topics to make it worthwhile attending the site, for the only "part.time" warhammer player, such as I.

I just have one thing to say.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to tackle a site which has just under ten thousand registered members, and probably two thousand active ones?

In fact, none at all, as I have never had any sort of modding responsibility at any web-site, but I just speak my oppinion, based on what I feel and see.
During an evaluation, as this has slightly become, there is nothing to defend. You can take the input I give, or not. And yes, I am just an in-experienced loud-mouth(I know that you didn't say that, and that you probably have no hard feelings), but when this is how I feel, something is wrong.

I'm impressed to see that everyone so far seems to agree that age-based discrimination isn't good!

Off course, discrimination is never good. I take it is also one of the mainpoints why politics and religion is not discussed. I think discrimination could be avoided though, in such topics.

I think discrimination is from those "haves" to the "have-nots".

By which I mean rulebooks...just imagine if people actually thought that the core rules for the game were a fundamental requirement...

The world would be a better place!

In some sense, this post does not commit anything to the discussion at hand(which is getting way OT for some of us, but I don't complain. It is against forum-rules though, so if we really must be so strict, I wonder why noone has yet deleted, or issued warnings...), but noone complains.
Nor will I, for I have one comment only to Rorks post: LOL.
(By that meaning: Good one Rork.)



Phew... that was a rough post to make, actually..

Dont hate me. I speak only out of love(perhaps a tad too strong a word...) for the site, and through the wish of trying to improve things. Also, I hold no negative feelings towards anyone I quote or respond to.


-Belial

[Langmann]

About politics and religion:

The British Navy, throughtout history, with its officers confined to close cramped quarters, with long terms of servitude, and a democratic society decided long ago that discussions of politics and religion caused 'unecessary feelings of ill-will between fellows who would normally establish the cooperative framework so desireable within His Majesty's vessels".

"his incessent Whiggish prating is so bilious..."

or to put it in today's language: A band of brothers.

Last time we allowed discussion of these topics it created some serious distance between members of different beliefs that WFB and Druchii were all but neglected so that such profound topics like the United States could be discussed by quite frankly a load of people who had big mouths but knew nothing. Not to mention that they we're bringing in their big-trumpet friends who didn't give a rat's tail end about WFB or dark elves. They were just there to argue.

Not to mention that serious moderator strain trying to sort out these flames and chastize members who went too far was really ruining the site. You think we were strict now? I don't think we ever gave out as many warnings as we did during those days.

Its not like the internet isn't free, everyone is welcome to create their own forum to discuss topics of those natures. This place is a Warhammer site!

[Asperon thorn]

Not to mention I am still coming to grips with the politics involved in letting the lesser races "contribute" to this bastion of Naggaroth.

Blech.

Asperon Thorn

[Gibious]

something should me done with all the and i shall say in brackets 'n00bs' and the realy are just being re-gurgitated and are just... virtualy the same thing with another name

now that seems to be the problem that is arisesing in this topic.
Next is to find the logical way of counteracting. this i put quite bluntly is to stop it.

Now how to stop it is arising and it seems we may only have two choices to counter this i dont want to limit your options but these seem the only ways to stop the "im new" posts
-Try as damnation says and create a sticky in the new users forum for every member to freely truth or not at all post in
-or it could become not allowed and be locked on sight

i have no side in this argument as i think either way has its good points and bad.

Hope this helps your disscusion

[Happy corsair]

Though maybe our sample is somewhat biased given that the main constituency of Warhammer players are young people, or at least people who can remember being young people not too long ago.

Well, it could be true, but actually that's discrimination as well...

That's an interesting statement. I'm not sure what you mean, though, care to elaborate?

In regard to "I'm new" posts - if there was a forum solely for that purpose, "I'm new" posts wouldn't bury other posts - correct? My home forum has one of them and it allows for more originality and depth of discussion than a solitary sticky to which to add "Um... I'm new, too" at the bottom. That'd get old quickly. Just my opinion, maybe that's not logistically possible, or everyone else might hate the idea.

Opening up the opportunity to discuss matters such as religion and politics may make it worthwhile for new members aswell to hang around here, as they wouldn't have to think it was... timeasting to check in here for few postgs only, when they could have it all, say at Asur.org. And if people are encouraged to stay, they post, not only about non-warhammer topics, but also the warhammer topics, as there are sufficient topics to make it worthwhile attending the site, for the only "part.time" warhammer player, such as I.

Agreed, but not only religion and politics, the more devisive of issues. What about what people like for breakfast? Tea vs coffee? People from the Netherlands telling everyone else what it's like to live there. Omlette receipes. Ad infinitum.

HC

[Langmann]

Agreed, but not only religion and politics, the more devisive of issues.

Look to what I said about that before...

What about what people like for breakfast? Tea vs coffee? People from the Netherlands telling everyone else what it's like to live there. Omlette receipes. Ad infinitum.

HC

We already have a forum for that. Its called Non-Druchii Discussion.

[Azure]

-or it could become not allowed and be locked on sight

problem there is it seems excedingly harsh... i mean wow.. first post and it gets locked in 2 secs? probably scare a few away

im just curious, anyone have any ideas on how to make people read FAQ's? (whne you make an acount, it aduomatically links you to the FAQ page in which you can not create a new window, minimize the FAQ page, or close it therefore it blocks the enitre screen forcing you to read it for maybe... 30 mins lol!)

perfect solution except for the "D.NET BROKE MY COMPUTER AHHHHHHHH" or "D.NET IS A BUNCH OF HACKERS AHHHHHHH"

Azure

[Happy corsair]

Agreed, but not only religion and politics, the more devisive of issues.

Look to what I said about that before...

Aye, good points, and I've said stuff similar. I come from another forum where we discuss religion and politics - in fact, that's the main point of the forum, and we have extensive TOS regarding what is appropriate and what is not. Personal attacks and flames certainly aren't. But as both of us said in different ways, this is a Warhammer forum, and that should be it's main focus. There are plenty of other forums out there for the other discussions.

I think the key is balance. Enough real life discussion to remind us that we are real people in a real world but tempered by unified condmenation of "STFU asshole Bush does more than you could do" kind of no-brainer comments.

What about what people like for breakfast? Tea vs coffee? People from the Netherlands telling everyone else what it's like to live there. Omlette receipes. Ad infinitum.

We already have a forum for that. Its called Non-Druchii Discussion.

I know, I wasn't proposing a new forum for that, just that people used the existing forum for less controversial things as well. The focus somewhat in this discussion so far has been concerning the more explosive topics, I was just iterating that a community of people talk about the mundane, too. In fact, it's probably from a good environment around that that it becomes able to host the controversial.

HC

Edited to fix quote code.

[Gibious]

Getting others to read the FAQ is never going to be a tricky thing and it is quite obvious that the 'gentle persuasion' is not working. I now have to admit i have only just read the FAQ sorry. I was curious to see what i dont already know. The only thing i found out is that there is only 1 warning for members before they are banned, which means i better be good. A few of the members on this site could guess these rules with thought and experience of other sites.

To get the rest to read the FAQ try stopping anyone from posting untill they have been on the FAQ for about 10-20 mins?

just a new option

[Ansob.]

problem there is it seems excedingly harsh... i mean wow.. first post and it gets locked in 2 secs? probably scare a few away

No. Locking in itself does not constitue an insult. As long as the mod says "Hey, welcome to d.net! Unfortunately, these types of threads aren't allowed here. You should read the FAQ (insert link), and PM me or any other mod if you have a question. Hope you enjoy your stay! " or anything to that effect - i.e. is friendly - then there's no offense in locking.

I do enjoy browsing the forums and seeing only a few locked threads, though. Asur.org and most of the French forums tend to have a 1-1 ratio of locked to non locked threads, which I find annoying.

[Sotek]

Though maybe our sample is somewhat biased given that the main constituency of Warhammer players are young people, or at least people who can remember being young people not too long ago.

Well, it could be true, but actually that's discrimination as well...

That's an interesting statement. I'm not sure what you mean, though, care to elaborate?

I mean, if you think that warhammer players (I know you said 'main constiuency) are young people, you are discriminatin too. You say something from which you don't know if it's true.

[Belial]

I just want to say: I understand your points on why not discussing religion and politics; and alos, I know agree.
I did a fair bit of thinking yesterday, after my last post.


I say we leave the welcome posts as they are. Do they cause troubles? Anyway, as Azure says, locking them will certainly leave a few users unsure what sort of iron will rule they're under. It is important for new users to feel welcome - and the responses in welcome posts do that. Also, it is rather cosy when Silas drops his "d.net tour" :p

[Happy corsair]

I mean, if you think that warhammer players (I know you said 'main constiuency) are young people, you are discriminatin too. You say something from which you don't know if it's true.

*shrug* It's just something I've observed, it could be entirely different in your country and cultural setting. But in mine young people are the most common gamers. They are predominantly male, too. I'm not being discriminatory because I'm not saying anything bad in light of those facts. Such as in Australia, the Indigenous Australians are over-represented in gaol. That's a fact. It only becomes discriminatory if I were to say that it's because they're inherently criminal. (Which I wouldn't say and it's not true).

I hope I'm not going off-topic. It's relevant because we all have different ideas of what constitutes discrimination and that'll effect our opinions as to the age thing and even opinion of n00bs.

Peace,
HC