Better than WH?

[Hawillis]

Ok, Im beginning to get pissed off with WH rules. I just dont like the inconsistancies. How units can overrun 2D6, etc. Its not precise. Its not exact.

LotR. Now that seems a lot better to me. The rules are great on my first impressions. Each unit can only move its maximum move per turn (ok, except for herioc combat) and priority and heroic moves help eliminate some of the turn based movement and really make me feel that my commanders are leading my army.

My only downside is that it is a skirmish game. No ranked up units!

And then there is the mention of BFG. I glanced at the rules and it also seems very exact and fair.

So people, do you think that LotR or BFG would be a good move for me to start collecting? Im mostly interested in the models and rules but the gaming community will have some impact on these games of course.

[Zakath the slaughterer]

No idea what's BFG but sounds good

Despite many people despicing LOTR, I like it and take great delight in playing it.

There are some defining characteristics in LOTR:
1) powerful cavalry - sure, cavalry pack a horrendous punch, but IMO that's only realistic plus they do only work on charge, once bogged down, they're dead.

2)heroes - it is said somewhere in the LOTR rulebooks' introduction that the game is all about heroes - and one can tell that! If you stay away from the most powerful named heroes (Aragorn, Gandalf, the bad looking Orc lieutenant from ROTK) you should be fine. The heroes are essential but it's nice to see that the ordinary captains are only mortals

3) awesome models - save the spiders, they all look great.

One has to give the system a plus on being simple to learn, yet having nigh endless trick capacity for one that has learned it already. LOTR is also cheaper money-wise than WH, especially since the games tend to be smaller.

I have a friend with whom I play when we get bored of the complexity of WH and I have even participated in a small tournament with my Elves..

I don't know if LOTR is better than WH but is sure is excellent change once in a while

[Scareypete]

Hawillis,

First to defend Fantasy... Over run 2d6 or 3d6 based on our movement is perfectly logical and fluffy. Iamagine thta you are the Unit champion calling your Infantry to charge the enamies position. You charge in and hit them hard and they return your attacks and kill a coupel of your own as well. More fighting ensues and you kill another for of their men an dlose one in turn. Are you simply going to let them get away? Those bastards killed your Men.. and if they get away they might rally reform and charge you to get revenge!!! you GOTTA take them out. You look at your men seething with rage, muscles pumping an dblood lust flaring in their nostrils, they WANT to finish them, but they also have minor injuries, Fatigue form swinging their swords and hefting their shields ducking dodgeing and parrying... took a lot out of them.. so as you see your enamy break and run you have a split decision.. order your men to run them down and give them what they want.. or order them to Hold their ranks and hope that your ragged hoarse voice can be heard through the chaos. Once that command to run is given Your men stumble ove rthe corpses of the fallen limping through their injuries, Chests heaving with adrenaline and exhaustion and move forward as fast and far as possible beofr ethey either stumble to a halt or fall upon their fleeing foes.

Random over run distance represents the variable of minor wounds, Battlefield conditions and the morale of the troops.

I don't know if you have ever been in a bar room brawl... street fight or even on the line of scrimage in a football game. Battle, human conflict in any form wehether for sport, for conquest, for revenge... it is never precise as all that. Your skill of arms may be precise, your generals order smay be precise... but before, during and after the scuffle the emotions of the combatants, the weather and the sudden realization of the precision of their opponents skill at arms and their opponents generals tactics can change all of that.

I have played Morhiem and Warhammer skirmish... LoTR and 40K. Every game has a nice range of miniatures and some interesting rules. But I have found Warhammer fantasy most represents my vision of what combat between massed units of fantastic warriors having at each others with Choppa's and axes and Handguns and Draich's.

[Sweeping death]

Hi.

I play LOTR and can say it´s an excellent skirmish game. I find the rules balanced, simple to learn and realistic. They also make it possible to use strategy and tactics to a much wider extente than you´d imagine from a skirmish game.

Also, I like how heroes work. They´re very important, but not so much as ubercharacter that can single handedly destroy entire regiments. Their might points are vital to interfere in critical moments to make an important move or attack. And they are good at participating at vital combats with strong monsters etc.

But the game, imho, is won by troops. Finally, it´s quite tough to kill people, be it with arrows or in hth, which I like. You win combats and force your opponent to fall back and open his lines, making it possible to exploit flanks and so on.

As you start gaining positional advantages, like surrounding the enemy, people start dying more.

BUT, it´s really not suited for mass combat BATTLES. I´ve played some larger LOTR games, but it doesn´t work very well, mainly for time issues as well as for not having distinct units. Every man is a unit, which doesn´t work for a simulation of a Battle. Another downside, is the lack of variety of troops. No comparison with the many different kinds of infantry, cavalry, monsters, skirmishers, flyers etc. that you get in WH. Again, for a battle, I find the existence of different types of troops, organized in different units, far better.

For those reasons, although not abandoning LOTR, I´m moving to WH. Exactly the other way round!

Due to the fact I NEVER EVER get to do any moderating in this forum, I'm jumping at the chance to combine your two posts into the one post . You've made my day .

-Alkkrision

[Arquinsiel]

My only downside is that it is a skirmish game. No ranked up units!

So is reality. LotR does that better than warhammer does but the game isn't quite as fast to play with large armies.

And then there is the mention of BFG. I glanced at the rules and it also seems very exact and fair.

There's also a lot fo Nd6" movement/range/gun strength in BFG.

LotR will be easier to get into but BFG would be a bigger departure from Warhammer. Much of a muchness in terms of playerbase really.

[Heldrak]

No idea what's BFG but sounds good

BFG = Battle Fleet Gothic, the game of little tiny spaceships.

LotR, not "LORT"

[Bad beast]

the biggest bonus of BFG is the game if fairly inexpensive, and the models are very quick to paint, the downside is that the player base is tiny, at a fairly large gaming convention in SF they had a tournament and were honestly surprised that a whole 8 people showed up

other then that the only problem i have with it as an american is that everything is in metric which throws off my guessings heh

[Darigaaz]

BFG is probably my favourite game out of all of the games workshop range. LOTR i'm not such a big fan of, anytime i go down to my local GW it's just 13 year old kids playing it... little whippersnappers

[Mr. anderson]

BFG is VERY nice. i know the rules and (unless you fight necrons) they are always balanced and fair, as far as i have experienced it.
i really dislike LotR, mainly because the miniatures are not to my liking and because the rules seemed unrealistic to me when i played it a couple of years ago - i hated it when my opponent could measure if he was in charge range or if the bows were in range and if not you could charge or shoot something else. the system is a bit too easy and too precise (as in predictable) for my liking - in WHFB you at least have to compensate for all these unknown factors, like in any real battle (although i do not claim that any of the GW games have a lot in common with real battles).
and finally, as darigaaz said: at the stores you hardly find people older than 13 (12 in my store) playing this game. and most of them are REALLY annoying - as little kids are sometimes (don´t get me wrong, i like little kids, but there is this phase they go through, and i remember going through it, where they are absolutely annoying, as are older people at times, but they can´t compete with these little kids!)

HUZZAH!

[Hawillis]

Thanks guys.
lol @ anderson, playing my 1st LotR game I battled some juvenile who had the long 6in (approx 8-9 Id guess). Good times.

I will look further into this BFG then thanks guys and bug a friend until he lets me use his LotRs minatures in a big battle to see how it goes (though truth be told, I suck at the big fights. Anything > 2000 points and all my skillz break down. 1250 points I am very deadly ^^).