Let the discussion begin about tale of 4 gamers d.net style

Kalarn · Post by **Kalarn** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:22 pm

Several people have voted that the druchii.net tale of 4 (or more) gamers needs further discussion. I've started this thread so that we cam discuss any problems with the concept and how to address them. Currently, it would just be members starting an army at the same time, building it at their own pace (according to funds, time etc) to whatever size they like, and writing a monthly update on progress, hopefully with pictures in the gallery. Battling internally would be difficult to manage, though reports from battles they have at clubswould suffice.
Anyways, lets discuss!

MOD EDIT: just clarified the title a bit. Linda

Zakath the slaughterer · Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:26 pm

IMO that's a great idea (as long as the players in question are good) and now all we need is volunteers. So let's do it, non?

Kalarn · Post by **Kalarn** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:28 pm

Well i'm up for it, always more fun building up an army as a group. Trust i can count you in Zakath? I'm thinking of a caldeor force (as people have probs already read) though may have to change to a non-elven race, try something different as it were. Anyways, problems and solutions?

Conan · Post by **Conan** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:01 pm

Sounds like a great idea, I always show see these kinds of threads on other forums and just miss out.

I was just about to start an undead force anyway and need a way to get motivated towards painting all those skellingtons...I can just imagine the grey horde!

I think it would be better if the players who did "compete" started a blog (web-log) so each player could have their own page/site to update and add pictures if possible, while also having updates on the site.

I don't know if this has been discussed but what about having this in the D.net e-zine? just a page or two for each person?

just a suggestion, anyway hope theres lots of interest.

Peace out

Kalarn · Post by **Kalarn** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:09 pm

Hmmm, that is a good idea. Has anyone heard of www.livejournal.com? Its basically an online diary type thing that people can use for free, that has a gallery function on it etc. And also you can add links to friends websites, if all particpants did that then the project would all be interlinked.

Conan · Post by **Conan** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:23 pm

I've not heard of that particular site, the one i was thinking of was www.blogspot.com but yours seems easier to use and comes with a gallery.

Also if alot of the players are situated in the UK we could find an event to go down to warhammer world at the end of the 'tale' where we put our newly built armies to the test.

Kalarn · Post by **Kalarn** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:38 pm

I like that idea, alot! Be a year before we could have armies to enter tournaments with though. Just checked livejournal and you can have as many galleries as you like, with ten pics per gallery.
Sounds useful!

Kalarn
Corsair

Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 98
Location: Bristol, UK Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:40 pm Post subject:

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And just found that it has a community fucntion too, so as well as having personal sites, we an have a group zone!
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'Let me tell you the secret that has led me to my goal: my strength lies solely in my tenacity.'

Evilzealot · Post by **Evilzealot** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:47 pm

Watching people create generic armies, while interesting, is nothing I haven't seen before. Watching an army of Tzeench chariots come together would be as entertaining as watching paint dry. It would be much more interesting to read about people creating themed armies (An army based around a story, not a story made to fit your army). You'd need skilled players to create a theme that is not walking cheese while still being competative though...

I think it may be difficult to organize the 4 players so you are all building/painting on a deadline, and restricting yourselves to the creation of equal point armies. I hope when you start it up that you are all a group of friends that can follow the same guidelines.

Kalarn · Post by **Kalarn** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:09 pm

Evilzealot wrote:Watching people create generic armies, while interesting, is nothing I haven't seen before. Watching an army of Tzeench chariots come together would be as entertaining as watching paint dry. It would be much more interesting to read about people creating themed armies (An army based around a story, not a story made to fit your army). You'd need skilled players to create a theme that is not walking cheese while still being competative though...

I think it may be difficult to organize the 4 players so you are all building/painting on a deadline, and restricting yourselves to the creation of equal point armies. I hope when you start it up that you are all a group of friends that can follow the same guidelines.

I think that the plan is to create themed armies - noone would really be interested otherwise. I've chosen my theme to be caledor at the time of tethlis the slayer - the dragons are becoming rarer and the dragon princes are having to ride elven steeds into battle instead. Also, as the war of the beard has just ended, large portions of the military will be composed of citizen levy - spearelves, silver helms (nobles sons riding to war out of necessity - no other troops available). The idea of this is that little organisation would be required, other than an update every month. As much money and time can be devoted as the individual is willing, and it doesn't just have to be 4 people, can be as many as are interested. It will just show updates of how armies progress, troops selections etc, it won't be quite like the WD version where we have a set amount of money each month and have to complete whatever we buy! :shock:

Gnosis · Post by **Gnosis** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:20 pm

Too bad you already have someone for a WE army... I was planning on making a little log for my own fledgling force, starting already with colour scheme tests on old models. I wish you luck though, and this is a nice idea! C

Darmort · Post by **Darmort** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:23 pm

I'm good at themes. Cult of Slaanesh theme... hmm... probably some warband lost in Lustria, and looking for a way out of that hell-hole after being left after the Storm of Chaos. Very few supplies, very little support, nothing to really protect them other than their selves. PERFECT!

Evilzealot; no body said we have to fight each other or be friends. If we're in the UK, maybe we could get to Warhammer World for a day... Of course I've always wanted to go to Warhamer World, so asking my dad to get me to Nottingham would be a good cover. Of course it would be kinda hard to explain how I know you all....

Maybe we don't have to fight each other... maybe that's optional... Still, fighting against another army made from one of your guys would be awesome!

Alith anar · Post by **Alith anar** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:25 pm

First off, let me say that this is a great idea!

Now for some thoughts on the project...

First, I think we need to establish some ground rules. "Building an army at their own pace" just won't cut it -noone wants to see an update saying 'well, this month I painted 2 Spearmen and the armour of a knight' ...we need to make sure that something gets accomplished. While forcing the participants to spend a pre-set sum of their own money each months is harsh, it is still neccecary (a pre-set amount of points might be foolish, since 500 pts can be everything from 250 Skavenslaves to a single Chaos character). This will narrow down the number of voulenteers, but increase the quality of the project, and that is really what counts, isn't it?

Second, the voulenteers need some basic skills: knowledge of the game is of course mandatory (as we need some tactical comments to go with the pretty pictures), as is skill with a camera (as we're looking to enjoy the paintjobs rather than wonder if it's some sort of abstract artsy comment to the current state of society). Basic painting skills would probably also be best, but I personally don't think this is too important since there are many pictures of expertly painted miniatures available from all kinds of sources (GW for instance) and the painting is not the point of the project.

Third, commitment. Voulenteers need to be sure that they'll still be able to submit material in 3, 4 or 5 months time, depending on the duration of the project. If you're moving in 2 months, starting a new full-time job or getting married ("Paint toy soldiers? Oh, I don't think so, mister!") and feel that these things might come in the way of the d.net To4G, you should think about it long and hard, and be realistic.

Fourth, supervision. Someone needs to pull the strings and keep the participants in line. This shouldn't be a problem, as I'm sure that one of our local slavemasters will step in...

Fifth, the bloodening. The forces need to fight at some point since there's enough Theoryhammer to go around already. Hence, access to a gaming table and some people to play against would be preferable... but I don't suppose this will be a big problem since most people here probably already play on a somewhat regular basis, or at least have the option to if they wish.

...

That's what I can think of right now. Now, as for choosing the participants from the voulenteers, first we need to decide how many we want (as fun as some may think it would be, I doubt that we'll want to follow the progress of 20 armies each month) and then select them from the available voulenteers. I say that anyone interested submits a picture or 2 of a miniature to show off his/her skills with a paintbrush and a camera (2 things at once -clever, aye?), as well as a few lines about the planned force. The entries would then be divided into feasible and not feasible ("I want to create a force of 2nd edition metal daemons, which I am planning on finding on eBay") and let the good people of this site vote to decide who makes the final cut.

So, that's all the rambling I have for now. What do you lads think?

Darmort · Post by **Darmort** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:31 pm

I think it's a great idea. I'm okay with a paint brush, my best so far have either been my Empire Border Patrol force, or 8 fifth edition Warriors.

Gnosis · Post by **Gnosis** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:51 pm

I think everything should go on a Monthly basis, with one battle per month. This could begin with a simple Border Patrol and end with a fully fledged 2000 points Pitched.

In terms of painting, I think the participators should opt for variety; an order like painting a unit - a character - unit - war machine - unit - monster - unit and so forth is interesting both for the painter and the reader.

Kalarn · Post by **Kalarn** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:25 pm

Hey guys, pleased to hear that there's support for this.
Damnation, you're more than welcome to pursue a wood elf force, we don't have to be limited to one type of each army. In a way, two people approaching the same thing but with their own individual tastes makes it much more interesting - feel free to join us!
I agree that one battle per month is needed, with maybe an exception for the first month - noone can paint 500pts that quickly? though if they can then a battle report would of course be welcomed. I also like the variety comment - it would keep things fresh and interesting.

Alith - some good points there. Maybe saying at least 250points OR 20 models (just imagine 250pts of skaven slaves..) must be completed per month minimum, more is of course welcome. Maybe we should say at least £15-£20 per month purchased -can't make it too much as some people might not keep up.
Oh, and are you interested in joining the project?

I think the point that must be stressed is that theme is everything here. I certainly don't want to see rank and file troops simply being made, i'd like to see personal touches, be it part swaps to sculpting.

Lastly, i'll happily help make sure tha every volunteer keeps to the monthly deadline. Maybe we should make our deadline half way between each d.net monthly, then these lucky d.netters will have something to read every fortnight! Woooo!

Lastly - darmort that sounds like an excellent theme and i could see the lustria rules being put to good use in your battle reps.

Should we start another topic, with a poll that has all the warhammer armies on it. People use the poll to state their army (so we see what we have) and then write a little bit about their theme?

Gnosis · Post by **Gnosis** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:14 pm

A set amount of money to be spent on models is necessary; it's an interesting element how the people go about and spend the same amount of money on different stuff in often differing strategies (as in the first Tale of Four Gamers: Fat Bloke choosing to go for metal miniatures, other for plastics).
If some people can't ensure they will spend the same amount per month: too bad, you're not the right material for it. Or well, this is drastic; we could do two series with different budgets per month.

Yeah well, I had been toying with another army theme for a long time; an Imperial Knightly Order and its very poor subjects. Bretonnian rules set, Empire Knights plastics and for the rabble a combination of Militia and Men-at-Arms. But, with WE so close to being released, that plan is postponed.

What I was thinking was a pretty much vanilla WE army, but with a definitive spring feeling to it. Still fiddling around with colour schemes (which would be part of my article if I were to do it), but I'm thinking of one very close to that of the Green Knight.

Beastmaster kurlan · Post by **Beastmaster kurlan** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:26 pm

great idea, as im always making new themed armies count me in! i can submit tactics or battle reports and everything needed.

Alith anar · Post by **Alith anar** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:42 pm

EDIT: oops. Delete this.

Kalarn · Post by **Kalarn** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:09 pm

Alrighty then, Damnation (and anyone else for that matter), what kind of spending limit do you think we should have per month? I have to say that i think people should be allowed to trade pieces and use ebay to get things they need, rather than sticking solely to the GW prices. The vanilla wood elves would be great, maybe you could take pics of each concept colour scheme lined up next to each other?
And kurlan, welcome aboard! Do you have any ideas for the army and theme yet?
Lastly, i'd like to suggest that people write up their monthly update on a word processing program, as they do things throughout the month, not just one big write up at the end where things may be missed/forgotten. That way people like Alith could still participate, as anything they write will be saved anyway, not just at the mercy of a net connection. Then completed articles are submitted and hey presto - instant update!
Just quickly note that i've set up my livejournal account with username kalarn (who'd have guessed) and having got my hands on the limited edition high elf figure, am painting it. I'll then write a quick entry and put the pic in to help you all get familiar with the livejournal .

Gnosis · Post by **Gnosis** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:33 pm

Well Kalarn, I really don't know how much people's allowances or pay checks are, so I wouldn't know. My allowance is on the high side, with 250 euros a month. 40 euros per month would be the maximum for me; this allows me to get a regiment box and a foot character per month. I'm willing to go up to fifty, but that'll be tight.

By the way, I'm aiming at a 2250 points army.

Darmort · Post by **Darmort** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:37 pm

Karlan wrote:I have to say that i think people should be allowed to trade pieces and use ebay to get things they need, rather than sticking solely to the GW prices.

You mean I can ask off Nugaming? Yay!

Money limit, I think, should be around £15-£18, just to keep it loose.

I think twice a Month would be pushing it, but if people can get their articles written up, three weeks could be done, even if I only get £25 monthly. How long would this go on for? 6 Months? Reasonable time to get up an army. And of course, no spending left overs, they continue for next month, the laws of no spending it on Bacon Sarnies, and so on.

ABSOLUTELY NO BACON SARNIES!

Maybe saying at least 250points OR 20 models

Drop it to 16 a month Models, so people can get their models within their month if they go for a boxed set. (with £18 for a boxed set, that's one a month.). 250 Points seems reasonable. (Sorceress, Shades,

, instant 284 Points,

).

I'm probably going to reach 2000 with this. In fact, this is the perfect oppotunity to collect a new army! I'll just explain I'm adding to my Dark Elves and Chaos!

As to the Lustria part... I'll try when I get the book,

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:52 pm

You might want to increase the limit for the first month to include an army book and lay down some rules on the subject of battalians.

Sadly I cannot take part. There is drought of cash heading my way.

Darmort · Post by **Darmort** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:57 pm

I plan on getting Storm of Chaos and Lustria books anyway. I can get them with the rest of my cash.

Kalarn · Post by **Kalarn** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:49 pm

Shall we call it £20 per month then, after the first. I'd say we continue sorting the rules for this etc for now and everyone gets the army book that they require (unless wood elves where thats gonna be tricky). Cause also everyone has their livejournal site to get sorted, and i'm sure there'll be more interest as undoubtedly some people haven't yet read this topic. Also gives us time to work on our themes, get any background info we need etc.
Then we set a date which will be the start of the first month. In the first month people can spend up to £50 (on models, paints etc do not count in the monthly budget). From there its £20 per month.
Therefore if we carried on for 6 months we'd have a budget of £150 per army - does everyone think thats a reasonable amount?

Deathjester · Post by **Deathjester** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:43 pm

i think that £150 is a reasonable amount (thats around $260 or 220 Euros at a guess) but if you think about it, thats just about the contents of the woodie box, and makes an army of around 1500 pts (i would say) i was hoping to get something around 2000pts.

but i agree that once we start, there should be a months grace period while we get everything sorted out.

yeah i can sort out a theame, what kind of time scale are we looking at here? as i would really like to do woodies (and i don't really want to do an army for this, and then do woodies later, and then work on my 30000 point army).

i would rather just do woodies, but if this is going to prove to be difficult due to the time scale i'll sort something out.