New Army: DE or Empire

[Night rider]

Sorry if this seems to replicate my earlier thread, but since I've kinda narrowed it down to a two army choice I thought a new thread might help avoid confusion.

Since I've come back after such a long time away I've been looking at starting a new army (pry gonna sell my older models). From the games I've seen, the models I've looked at and what I want (army that's got good shooting but can also do well in combat) I've narrowed things down to either the Druchii or the Empire.

So sorta looking at the pros and cons of each army.

I like the looks and fluff of the Druchii a lot, as does how well they cover all aspects of the game.
The flexibility of the Empire (with some cheap but decent troops, very cool artillery, solid cav) definitely impresses me.

Any and all feedback and such would be really appreciated.

[The virgin forest]

Both are great armies. Empire is a bit more rounded, so will give you endless variation, while the elves are more elite and reliable.

Both armies are great fun, so I'd recommend starting the one, whose models make your fingers itch to paint

[Dante valentine]

Ahh, to grow pointy ears and wield a spear or grow a beer belly and wear lots of armour!!!

I have both and i enjoy playing with both armies and while i would say that Dark Elves are my faviroute, its more of the fluff and paint scheme combo that gives them the edge. (My empire are OLD and are painted in the colours of nuln, which kind of makes them look like bad James Bond Villians!)

At the end of the day, each player looks for different things from an army and no matter how much people tell you that X is better than Y, you will not be convinced.

Dark Elves offer a player decent variety, a fast list, heavy hitting troops, good magic and powerful shooting.

Empire offers mass variety, good shooting, powerful shooting, very diverse magic and each man is so cheap that you can throw massive units at the enemy. Nothing is quite as amusing as watching your 50 man unit of halberdiers, led by a warrior priest (thus giving hatred) and with the base spell from Lore of the beasts crash into the enemy. For a few hundred points you have a unit that has hatred and attacking with Str 5 - awesome!

The only thing i will say is that, by and large, Empire will lead you to a more defensive role with most army lists (bar lots of cavalry), Dark Elves will lead your style ot more offensive (bearing in mind that you will have to fight the enemy on your terms, not his).

What i would try and do is find a few local players and try and "borrow" there armies for a few games, or at least watch them. GW's normally have Empire armies on their gaming tables so it shouldnt be that difficult to give them all a test game!

Also bear in mind that an Empire list will be both rather expensive to collect and much more time consuming to paint than a Druchii army. Something to consider, nothing is more dissapointing that seeing a half finished army that you know will never finish.

Regards

Dante

[Thanee]

I really don't think anyone can help you with that final decision.

It's your taste that matters most, after all.

Bye
Thanee

P.S. I would go with Dark Elves (how unexpected! ), as I think they are more rewarding to play, and I - personally - dislike the look of the Empire models (some like those especially because they look like a real-world army, while I find them boring and definitely prefer the more fantasy-looking armies, but that is purely a matter of taste... both armies are good in play).

[van Awful]

The only thing i will say is that, by and large, Empire will lead you to a more defensive role with most army lists (bar lots of cavalry), Dark Elves will lead your style ot more offensive (bearing in mind that you will have to fight the enemy on your terms, not his).

QFT

that's why i play both, also:
empire : Blackpowder firepower, hordes of cheap expendable grunts, detachments." GRIND THEM DOWN, LADS!!"

Dark elves, scary monsters, elite units,
"hamstring them, crush their spine, round up the rest of em"

and what the rest of the the guy's said above,

[Farodin]

Yes, I agree with Thanee, this choice is really your's to make. Druchii as said are versatile, offensive and elite troups. Empire are also very versatile and provide more cheaper troops.

I'd go for the army which you think looks 'cooler', the models which you think just look awesome and you'd really want to paint,

-Farodin

[Danceman]

Empire looks very cool in this edition. Their actually encouraged to field their many infantry units. Downside is a lot of models to paint but the army will look awesome, really really awesome.

Dark Elves minis are very nice as well but on the whole the appearence of a fairly decently painted Empire army just blows them out of the water!

In either case, both armies have a lot going for them and I suspect you'll enjoy yourself regardless of which army you choose.

[Mr. anderson]

I have to agree with danceman - a well painted empire army is something else. The thing about dark elves is that they sort of "have" to look all dark and sinister otherwise you'll get weird stares. An empire army can look any way you like. I thoroughly enjoy painting lots of bright colours for a change. Green, white and red looks phenomenal together. My army is nearly finished (at least the models I have, there's another batch on its way).

I like both the elite playstyle of dark elves as they are very... well, nice to play - the kill count they can rack up is phenomenal. This is not to suggest I'm some sort of sadistic... well, seeing black guard cut through fifty goblins is quite something - I wouldn't use the word satisfying because it's just wrong, but people know what I mean, I hope

Empire is all about having things work together as well, but in a subtly different manner - individual soliders mean very little, but when everythign works together it's great fun, they are somewhat more tactical as you combine average units to do something, whereas DE are all about getting a terribly deadly unit in a position where it can cause maximum damage.

[Playa23]

not really looking for objectivity on a site like this hey?

Just jokes... but my answer:
I think that the question is a little more complicated because of the financial (and emotional) setback if you feel that you purchased the wrong army. Maybe asking a friend or friends whether you can play with their (DE or Empire) armies so as to get a feel for them would help also I assume you've gone through both the army books otherwise that's a good place to start. Whatever you do make sure that your absolutely positive you have the right army... you can feel it in your gut... disemboweled gut should you choose Druchii. Personally I say Druchii... for some non-obvious reason. Hope you find the right army

[Calisson]

Empire and DE are my two armies. I never play anything else.
I've chosen Empire to complement DE in what DE was lacking:
warmachines, core heavy cavalry and all Lores of magic.
These two armies are certainly among the most powerful in the early 8th edition, but for different reasons.


First of all: DE have Druchii.net, Empire has Warhammer-Empire.com.
I like D.net better but W-E is nice, too.


Nowadays, Empire tends to be played with huge masses of infantry, backed up with quite a few warmachines. It requires a high Ld general (GotE, Archlector, less often TGM). A BSB is mandatory. Religion-heavy armies (priests, archlector, popemobile, somehow flagellants) are quite popular.
DE cannot afford such masses (except with spearmen).
However, the high Ld of all its troops allows to take sorceresses as general and not worry for Ld tests.

Empire's magic has good defense with priests who bring 1 DD (archlectors bring 2DD) and exceptional variety with all 8 Lores (all are apreciated, possibly Life is preferred, especially if there is a steam tank to heal) plus the priest's prayers. Cheap casters.
DE's magic is all offense, with more PD than anyone but access limited to 4 Lores plus Dark Lore.

Empire's shooting is exceptional for the warmachines, all the more that they are more accurate with the engineers, now. The ability to self-blow up can be exhilarating.
BS shooting has access to the Hochland sniper, but in reality it is rarely effective. The rest of the shooting is mostly move or shoot, and has a low BS, so it is rarely impressive.
DE's shooting is very accurate, but it has much less variety, with the RBT and the RXBs. RXB can move and shoot, and they shoot a lot.
In any case, DE shooting won't win battles while Empire warmachine shooting can be battle-winning.

I could tell that warmachine shooting is to Empire what magic is to DE: a game-winning help for the bulk of the army.
And vice versa, the Empire's magic and DE's shooting is merely a nice complement to the rest of the army, not really necessary.

In melee, Empire is more cumbersome. Priests can grant hatred to a few units.
Empire has cheap infantry and impressive 1+ save cavalry. Great in defense, however lacking punch.
DE benefit from a better mobility, and hatred is great in the first turn.
DE have expensive elite infantry and COK, great in the offense but cannot withstand prolonged fights.

The fluff of DE is great, it has corsairs!
Some people like dinosaurs, too, or assassins (becoming very difficult to play nowadays). Khainites inspire others, or the ability to kill their own troops with daggers.
The fluff of Empire is exhilarating, I find it funnier than DE's.
Empire has crazy engineers (with piegeon bombs and other still experimental weapons), intolerant priests and flaggies, its knights are not as haughty as Bret's, and its troops have a caricature of Marine Corps sense of humour.

[Night rider]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

While I like both armies I think I will have to go with the Dark Elves.

I much prefer the look of their models and their history over those of the Empire. In terms of play style well they're somewhat flexible, though not as much as Empire.

[Thanee]

Good choice!

Bye
Thanee

[The virgin forest]

Have fun

[Calisson]

I will have to go with the Dark Elves.

or wouldn't you say:
I will have to start with the Dark Elves?

Anyway, good choice, the present army book in the 8th edition offers lots of playstyles. You're quite sure to find what you wish.
Welcome in D.net again (especially since your equivalent thread in Warhammer-Empire did not trigger as much interest).

[Ungorlucky]

Good reasons for choosing DE in no particular order
1) Great minis
2) Best range of female minis
3 )Diverse range of things to paint from chariots to monsters
4) Dragons - pinnacle of fantasy
5) Good range of alternative minis from other manufacturers.
6) Plenty of modeling and conversion opportunities.
7) Help and support of this site
DRAICH from this site. The best beginners guide to an army I have ever seen. A very well done from me to all those involved.

[Night rider]

Saw a game the other day that kinda gave me a couple of worries with DEs - a DE vs Daemons game where a Bloodthirster and Daemonic Herald (accompanied by Demonic Hounds) basically won by themselves (although a unit of flamers and Daemonic magician helped by halving a Warrior horde in a magic phase) after the Daemons player had some bad opening turns.

It kinda got me thinking how do DEs, and the other Elves for that matter, deal with threats like that?
*Sighs and looks around sheepishly* Yeah, the other two have kinda re-entered my thoughts along with Dwarves... But I'm pretty sure DEs will remain out in front cause while I like elements of the other 3 I like the whole that is the Druchii.