Give me hell - Squig Herd Bomb

[Silverheimdall]

So after a very angry discussion on Warseer where I was pretty much threatened (Oh Warseer) on the topic of Squig Herds, I've decided to go around the non-warseer forums to see what others thought.

So far, Ulthuan and Da Warpath are also split on the subject but less against than those who "don't mind".

Here's the deal.

Squid Herds may be taken in unit size 10+ and the only written indication of any minimum for any type of model is "Must have at least 1 herder per 3 squigs" - the ETC has ruled it that "Squigs go Wild" occurs even when no squigs are alive - as it is the letter of the rule - RAW.

I initially went for 9 herders and 1 squig - because it felt wrong to use the '0 squig loophole' - at which point the discussion started burning bright in insults.

In the end I have taken 3 Squigs and 7 Herders, because I figured, 10 archers or rxb could kill a single squig easily, 3 squigs makes it only 10 pts more expensive (1 + 9 is 35, 3+ 7 is 45) per unit.

My first opponent, having seen the Warseer discussion but not knowing it was me, thought it was incredibly cheap to use it how I fielded them:

Squigs at the back! Because once I reach combat, I want my herders to die and the squigs to survive to explode.

Basically:

[H][H][H]
[H][S][H]
[H][S][H]
----[S]---

Thats for the formation.
I move forward - animosity bogs me down and risks wounding my unit and another unit and stalling both units for the entire turn - but if they reach their quarry, they can explode and cause D6 S5 hits in 2d6"

The impact it had in our game:
Forgot that at 0 Squig it autoexplodes and rolled insane courage on the break test, hah. Found it funny but would've dealt D6 S5 to Swordmasters AND my Orc Chariot that was left on 1 wound - this would've killed the chariot almost guaranteed and further crippled the swordmasters (which I finished anyway with a Doom Diver followed by a wolf chariot)

And the 2nd Herd was forced to charge white lions, lost most herders and it broke - killing 4 white lions and finishing my mangler squig that was left on 1 wound from his archers shooting at it, but it had just done 2d6 S5 on the white lions, killing a bunch so it had done its job of reducing them to a manageable size.

I don't think either unit had much of an impact but they were certainly useful.
The High Elf just couldn't spare shooting or magic to kill all 3 squigs and that is how they made it to their target.


Now then, do you have a bone to pick with such a use of the Squig Herd unit
- Having Squigs in the back rank only so that they cannot be attacked before its too late
- Having a minimum-size unit with only 3 Squigs (which is entirely legal)

[Flash29]

So after a very angry discussion on Warseer where I was pretty much threatened (Oh Warseer) on the topic of Squig Herds, I've decided to go around the non-warseer forums to see what others thought.

So far, Ulthuan and Da Warpath are also split on the subject but less against than those who "don't mind".

Here's the deal.

Squid Herds may be taken in unit size 10+ and the only written indication of any minimum for any type of model is "Must have at least 1 herder per 3 squigs" - the ETC has ruled it that "Squigs go Wild" occurs even when no squigs are alive - as it is the letter of the rule - RAW.

I initially went for 9 herders and 1 squig - because it felt wrong to use the '0 squig loophole' - at which point the discussion started burning bright in insults.

In the end I have taken 3 Squigs and 7 Herders, because I figured, 10 archers or rxb could kill a single squig easily, 3 squigs makes it only 10 pts more expensive (1 + 9 is 35, 3+ 7 is 45) per unit.

My first opponent, having seen the Warseer discussion but not knowing it was me, thought it was incredibly cheap to use it how I fielded them:

Squigs at the back! Because once I reach combat, I want my herders to die and the squigs to survive to explode.

Basically:

[H][H][H]
[H][S][H]
[H][S][H]
----[S]---

Thats for the formation.
I move forward - animosity bogs me down and risks wounding my unit and another unit and stalling both units for the entire turn - but if they reach their quarry, they can explode and cause D6 S5 hits in 2d6"

The impact it had in our game:
Forgot that at 0 Squig it autoexplodes and rolled insane courage on the break test, hah. Found it funny but would've dealt D6 S5 to Swordmasters AND my Orc Chariot that was left on 1 wound - this would've killed the chariot almost guaranteed and further crippled the swordmasters (which I finished anyway with a Doom Diver followed by a wolf chariot)

And the 2nd Herd was forced to charge white lions, lost most herders and it broke - killing 4 white lions and finishing my mangler squig that was left on 1 wound from his archers shooting at it, but it had just done 2d6 S5 on the white lions, killing a bunch so it had done its job of reducing them to a manageable size.

I don't think either unit had much of an impact but they were certainly useful.
The High Elf just couldn't spare shooting or magic to kill all 3 squigs and that is how they made it to their target.


Now then, do you have a bone to pick with such a use of the Squig Herd unit
- Having Squigs in the back rank only so that they cannot be attacked before its too late
- Having a minimum-size unit with only 3 Squigs (which is entirely legal)

a little quote from the orcs and goblin rulebook. special rule "Squigs go wild: if a unit flees, or if at any time there are only squigs left alive in the unit with no herders, the squigs go wild."

so no, simply no, there is no 0 squig loophole, the unit does not explode if you reach zero squigs and it is not RAW, the only time a unit can explode is in these 2 instances, at no other point is it possible.

as for the sneakyness. i think it is bad, i mean it could be functionel, but the unit is slow, and doesn't discriminate. furthermore the unit is subject to animosity and a squig is hit by a ranged attack on 1-4, you don't get to chose, which would mean that theres a good chance your squigs die before they reach combat.

45 points for something that might do d6 st5 to all units in 2d6" it isn't that great, not in a goblin army anyway, where a movement 9 wolf chariot costs 50 points, and you have pumpwagons and don't forget, goblins are easy to kill, even a unit of harpies, or light cav might get you stuck in combat, or even break when your not free of your lines.

so i find it a mediocre tactic really, in a greenskin army anyway, but seems fun. If what you say about the ETC rule is correct, then they are wrong, it is not RAW, the rules are very clear.

[Silverheimdall]

The part of RAW that made it ruled at the ETC - as it was looked at by their ruling team - is the "if a unit flees" - that is part of the rule, thus 0 squig + flee = boom.

Each condition is exclusive of the other.
Condition A = Unit Flees
Condition B = No more Herders alive

Anyway, its main goal is to add more deployments and act as war machine protection as well as force my opponent to deal with them in scenarios where they count as scoring (custom tournament scenarios)

[Viggo3000]

If you want some real hate. Use squig herds without squigs and watch the oponent rage when the gobbos explode ;-)

[Silverheimdall]

Nah thats what we were trying to avoid in the Warseer discussion gone astray.

Anyhow, I've already redesigned my list and have done away with the herd bombs, they're good and CAN be useful, but for objective-based scenario play, I'm gonna need something that tries to last longer.

[Red...]

Honestly, whether or not I use strategies like these depend heavily on my opponent.

If he's an absurd combo, silly cheese loving beard monkey, then I'm fairly content with cheesing my army up to the max. If he's not, then I feel a bit bad running combos like the one you outlined.

I don't think its rage worthy (these are just games afterall) but generally I'd shy away from the method. It sounds like it's RAW correct to be able to do it that way, but not in anyway RFG (Rules for a Fun Game).

[Flash29]

If you want some real hate. Use squig herds without squigs and watch the oponent rage when the gobbos explode ;-)

yes with a rule called the squigs go wild, you would expect people to not accept when there are no squigs to go wild. although appearently it is RAW, using it without squigs or having it explode without squigs is both silly and stupid if your looking for a fun game.

if you do run it though, for comedic effect, i'd model some night goblins in squig suits.

[Prince fabulas]

I think the rules should say that there is no explosion if there are 0 squigs.

But I think they have overlooked this and so the unit does explode even without them RAW.

I use 9 gobbos + a squig to defend isolated artillery.


So the main benefit of the squig herd was immune to psych.

The squig gives a nice S5 supporting attack and cannot be attacked in close combat.

I found the best way to defend the 2 x DD & 2 x RL was to spread them out.

This way when a peg rider or some such gets through he doesn't pork them all easily (and he can be shot by the surviving pieces (don't bother if he has PoK)).

This meant they were out of Ld range of the general and BSB re-rolls.

[Saintofm]

Nope, no handlers then everything with in X amount of inches takes a bunch of hits, friend and foe. The more squigs the more damage.

Persoanly I'd go overboard with the squigs as lets face it, S5 attacks. Not bad, not bad at all. They also have the same I as most foes, and can even be faster then dwarf, ogre, and most greenskin and still do some damage.

[Altonsuny]

Nice post. I like it. Thanks for sharing these information. Keep it up.

[L1qw1d]

Talked to an O&G player that is fairly well versed in the controversy. He plays it straight, and sticks to the fairly vanilla reading of it. It's A OR it's B for the explosions, and plays accordingly.