Nagash
Moderator: The Dread Knights
- Dalamar
- Dragon Lord
- Posts: 9675
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
- Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Re: Nagash
Lore of Undeath is supposedly like Demonology in 40k
So with my limited knowledge of demonology, I believe all it does (as in no other ability) is summon more units onto the field.
So if we have access to a new lore with 7 spells that raise new undead models or bring back wounds lost... I dunno, there must be more to it than that (considering, according to Nagash's special rule, Lore of Undeath brings models per points cost value, not per model... so you can include anything in a single spell)
"Bring in d3xcaster levelx100 points worth of undead models"
"rolls a 3"
"Brings in a vampire lord with no equipment"
So with my limited knowledge of demonology, I believe all it does (as in no other ability) is summon more units onto the field.
So if we have access to a new lore with 7 spells that raise new undead models or bring back wounds lost... I dunno, there must be more to it than that (considering, according to Nagash's special rule, Lore of Undeath brings models per points cost value, not per model... so you can include anything in a single spell)
"Bring in d3xcaster levelx100 points worth of undead models"
"rolls a 3"
"Brings in a vampire lord with no equipment"
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Re: Nagash
Dalamar wrote:Lore of Undeath is supposedly like Demonology in 40k
So with my limited knowledge of demonology, I believe all it does (as in no other ability) is summon more units onto the field.
So if we have access to a new lore with 7 spells that raise new undead models or bring back wounds lost... I dunno, there must be more to it than that (considering, according to Nagash's special rule, Lore of Undeath brings models per points cost value, not per model... so you can include anything in a single spell)
"Bring in d3xcaster levelx100 points worth of undead models"
"rolls a 3"
"Brings in a vampire lord with no equipment"
That's lame if that is all it does.
Re: Nagash
Potential new models for DE is great news. Hopefully a mounted peg character is in there and maybe new plastic shades and/or harpies (feels unlikely given the other releases).
Going up to 50% lords is disappointing, so you will be able to take 50% lords, 25% heroes and 25% core. I was hoping they would reduce the amount of points you can spend on lords/heroes. Maybe 9th will focus on lords flying around on dragons (or some suitable big flying monster), and of course we wouldn't want his lordship getting bogged down fighting goblins, better change steadfast. to runfast.
Going up to 50% lords is disappointing, so you will be able to take 50% lords, 25% heroes and 25% core. I was hoping they would reduce the amount of points you can spend on lords/heroes. Maybe 9th will focus on lords flying around on dragons (or some suitable big flying monster), and of course we wouldn't want his lordship getting bogged down fighting goblins, better change steadfast. to runfast.
Re: Nagash
Gidean wrote:Every Wizard in the game will be able to field the Lore of Undeath. I wonder if it will be any good? Could easily replace Waagh Magic for Orcs and Goblins.
Is this confirmed?
As for Daemonology, there are two parts to it: Sanctic and Malefic. Regarding Malefic, Any double rolled is a Perils of the Warp (Miscast table?) unless you are a Daemon.
S: Summoning - Warp Charge 3
12", creates either 10 x Bloodletters/Daemonettes/Horrors/Plaguebearers, or 5 x Fleshhounds/Seekers, or 3 x Flamers/Nurglings
1: Cursed Earth - WC1
All Daemon models within 12" have their ++ increased by 1 and units arriving by deep strike will not scatter
2: Darkflame - WC1
Template, STR4, AP5, Assault 1, Soulblaze, Torrent
3: Infernal Gaze - WC1
18" (beam), STR 3, AP4, Assault 1, Fleshbane, Armourbane
4: Sacrifice - WC1
6", creates 1 x Herald of Khorne/Nurgle/Slaneesh/Tzeentch with 30 points of options. Any model within 6" takes a wound with no armour save of any kind allowed.
5: Incursion - WC3
12", creates 3 x Bloodcrushers/Fiends/Plague Drones/Screamers
6: Possession - WC3
6", creates 1 x Bloodthirster/Great Unclean One/Keeper of Secrets/Lord of Change. Psyker is immediately removed as a casualty. If the psychic test is failed, you roll on the Perils table regardless of the dice rolled.
- Haagrum
- PhD in Dark Magic
- Posts: 592
- Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:54 am
- Location: The depths of the Black Library
Re: Nagash
There will have to be more to the Lore of Undeath than mimicking Malefic Daemonology. Hopefully Hand of Dust will reappear, at least.
Only a few more days to wait, we can judge it then.
Only a few more days to wait, we can judge it then.
"The wrath of a good man is not to be feared. They have too many rules."
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."
- Dalamar
- Dragon Lord
- Posts: 9675
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
- Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Re: Nagash
Pre-ordered the demonology deck from my LFGS I doubt I'll spend any more money than that on this expansion though.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Re: Nagash
I can see a CoB-Horde with a razor banner deal with him.
Of course, the HKB can make things go awry quite fast, but it's rather unlikely and without it the CoB should live for 3-4 turns.
Poison and all the rerolls will do the wounds and I think - without doing any math - that he should be down by turn 3.
HOWEVER, that's completely ignoring magic, of course, where he can heal wounds, buff/debuff or summon help, if not redirecting the cobhorde with summoned units in the first place.
What I would worry much more about is the changes in rules and gameplay that Nagash will bring - not as a scenario, mind you! For more information check warseer.
Of course, the HKB can make things go awry quite fast, but it's rather unlikely and without it the CoB should live for 3-4 turns.
Poison and all the rerolls will do the wounds and I think - without doing any math - that he should be down by turn 3.
HOWEVER, that's completely ignoring magic, of course, where he can heal wounds, buff/debuff or summon help, if not redirecting the cobhorde with summoned units in the first place.
What I would worry much more about is the changes in rules and gameplay that Nagash will bring - not as a scenario, mind you! For more information check warseer.
- Haagrum
- PhD in Dark Magic
- Posts: 592
- Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:54 am
- Location: The depths of the Black Library
Re: Nagash
The problem with using a COB is that Nagash can issue a challenge, which the Death Hag must accept (if she's in base contact with Nagash) because she can't get out of the front rank while on a COB.
If Nagash splits his Attacks 50-50 between the Hag and the COB, he's likely to monster the Death Hag and do a few wounds on the Cauldron while avoiding any return attacks from the unit and taking one or two at most from the Cauldron fight. Even if he doesn't win on SCR, he'll probably crunch the Cauldron on the next turn, since it should still be fighting a challenge with him.
Khaine help you if he has cast Vanhel's and/or has a nearby Corpse Cart...
If Nagash splits his Attacks 50-50 between the Hag and the COB, he's likely to monster the Death Hag and do a few wounds on the Cauldron while avoiding any return attacks from the unit and taking one or two at most from the Cauldron fight. Even if he doesn't win on SCR, he'll probably crunch the Cauldron on the next turn, since it should still be fighting a challenge with him.
Khaine help you if he has cast Vanhel's and/or has a nearby Corpse Cart...
"The wrath of a good man is not to be feared. They have too many rules."
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."
- T.D.
- Killed by Khorne
- Posts: 2818
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:51 pm
- Location: Hinterlands of Khuresh; The Lost City of the Angels
Re: Nagash
I told you it was big!
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- Dalamar
- Dragon Lord
- Posts: 9675
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
- Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Re: Nagash
Can't wait for rules for allies... I will be employing skull catapults and ironblasters.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Re: Nagash
Ok that thing is just absurd. Thought something along the lines of a 50 x 50 mm base would be cool.... I'd have no place to store that monster.
- Khaleth Blackheart
- Would-be Seerlord or Quack doctor
- Posts: 235
- Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:50 pm
- Location: Raiding out of Athel Loren
Re: Nagash
Just pre-ordered my limited edition book
Anyone else ordered anything?
Anyone else ordered anything?
- Dyvim tvar
- Lord of the Dragon Caves
- Posts: 8372
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- Location: The Dragon Caves of the Underway (Indianapolis IN)
- Contact:
Re: Nagash
Khaleth Blackheart wrote:Just pre-ordered my limited edition book
Anyone else ordered anything?
No.
Prices are just getting stupid.
Truly These are the End Times ...
- Dalamar
- Dragon Lord
- Posts: 9675
- Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:42 pm
- Location: Designing new breeds of Dragons
Re: Nagash
Dyvim tvar wrote:Khaleth Blackheart wrote:Just pre-ordered my limited edition book
Anyone else ordered anything?
No.
Prices are just getting stupid.
Pretty much that. All the rules I'm interested in are on the deck of cards. It's $8. I can pay that.
The rest of the "rules" I will need to see first. No interest whatsoever in the cannon bait characters.
7th edition army book:
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
Games Played: 213
Games Won: 114 (54%)
Games Drawn: 33 (15%)
Games Lost: 66 (31%)
8th Edition army book W/D/L:
Druchii: 36/4/16
- Khaleth Blackheart
- Would-be Seerlord or Quack doctor
- Posts: 235
- Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:50 pm
- Location: Raiding out of Athel Loren
Re: Nagash
Dyvim tvar wrote:Khaleth Blackheart wrote:Just pre-ordered my limited edition book
Anyone else ordered anything?
No.
Prices are just getting stupid.
I knew they'd be ridiculous prices, but I haven't bought anything for a few months from GW and as soon as I heard the Nagash rumours I started saving.
I don't mind paying that sort of money for the books (I love reading) and there good quality.
But can't justify any of the models yet.
- CitizenKhaine
- Beastmaster
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:04 pm
- Location: New Zealand
Re: Nagash
Payce wrote:Holy... hell.
That's a... Soul Grinder base.
Holy mother of...
With you on that! I must have just come out from my dungeon because I hadn't seen Nagash until now, I would need a new cupboard to fit it in! I had better pick up the White Dwarf and find out what it all about.
You're one microscopic cog in his catastrophic plan - Designed and directed by his red right hand - Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds (channeling Khaine)
Visit the Citizens of Khaine http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=75270
Visit the Citizens of Khaine http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=75270
Re: Nagash
I'm after the lore, first and foremost. Rules? They're a nice addition. It's not like I'll ever field Nagash.
As for the prices, yes, they are steep. But compared to the development of 40k where new armies now have to shell out for two codexes, core and the "supplement" that they're usually unplayable without, where having four books for allies if you even consider playing Imperials competitively, where they codex release schedule is now up to more than two in a single month, where the most expensive new models are a "must-have" in more than a few armies (Centurions, Riptide, Wraithknight comes to mind)...
I can actually live with paying €65 for 400 pages of lore and rules (or double that in my case, but getting limited is a personal choice). I can live with €85 for the single biggest model ever released for this system. Am I defending GW's price policy? No. I think it's out of control; Witch Elves compared to Dreadspears and Dark Riders should be enough of an example. But in this particular instance, I don't think complaining is warranted. In terms of product, the book is roughly the same size and price as the core book, which is too expensive as well, but as far as price precedent goes, it's a valid comparison.
I'd rather pay my GW money for extreme high-quality products that celebrate and develop the lore, rather than suffer 40k's incredibly stupid "mandatory" shoving poor content down your throat.
Also, they put heroin in their plasic. I just know it.
As for the prices, yes, they are steep. But compared to the development of 40k where new armies now have to shell out for two codexes, core and the "supplement" that they're usually unplayable without, where having four books for allies if you even consider playing Imperials competitively, where they codex release schedule is now up to more than two in a single month, where the most expensive new models are a "must-have" in more than a few armies (Centurions, Riptide, Wraithknight comes to mind)...
I can actually live with paying €65 for 400 pages of lore and rules (or double that in my case, but getting limited is a personal choice). I can live with €85 for the single biggest model ever released for this system. Am I defending GW's price policy? No. I think it's out of control; Witch Elves compared to Dreadspears and Dark Riders should be enough of an example. But in this particular instance, I don't think complaining is warranted. In terms of product, the book is roughly the same size and price as the core book, which is too expensive as well, but as far as price precedent goes, it's a valid comparison.
I'd rather pay my GW money for extreme high-quality products that celebrate and develop the lore, rather than suffer 40k's incredibly stupid "mandatory" shoving poor content down your throat.
Also, they put heroin in their plasic. I just know it.
- T.D.
- Killed by Khorne
- Posts: 2818
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:51 pm
- Location: Hinterlands of Khuresh; The Lost City of the Angels
Re: Nagash
Payce wrote:Also, they put heroin in their plasic. I just know it.
Plastic crack
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- Kiatra
- Trainee Warrior
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Re: Nagash
all for new lore/fluff reading... but the pricing could use a reign in
where to put that unholy father of all undead.... methinks in the same fashion model train hobbyests, put it on the mantle(the 7mm/ft scale locos come to mind... )to show off your detailing/painting skills. as for killing him, a Har Ganeth army SHOULD do it.. reapers blazing away until Hag Hellebron can get in b2b.
where to put that unholy father of all undead.... methinks in the same fashion model train hobbyests, put it on the mantle(the 7mm/ft scale locos come to mind... )to show off your detailing/painting skills. as for killing him, a Har Ganeth army SHOULD do it.. reapers blazing away until Hag Hellebron can get in b2b.
- T.D.
- Killed by Khorne
- Posts: 2818
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:51 pm
- Location: Hinterlands of Khuresh; The Lost City of the Angels
Re: Nagash
Some new 'Return of Nagash' Black Library fluff summarised by a poster on Warseer:
Mannfred scrys a bowl of blood and sees the following breaking out around the Warhammer World:
-A twin tailed comet
-A "storm of chaos" sweeping the world; random deamonic manifestations are popping up all over the world. All small and lasting only a short time.
-Valkia is leading a huge Khornate army against Naggarond
-Massive daemonic incursion in Lustria. The jungles burn.
-Huge daemonic invasion of Ulthuan.
-In Brettonia Mallobaude, the bastard son of Leoncouer, leads a joint army of disgraced knights and the undead (backed up by Arkhan of all people) kills his father.
-Deamonic invasions of the dwarf hold Copper mountain and Neferata's Silver Pinnacle, but the deamons just pop out of existance half way through the battles.
-Massive Nurgle-y plague in Middenheim
-In Athel Loren the Vaults of Winter break open and the great trees, including the Oak of Ages, split open to reveal they are filled with maggots.
-Gotrek chopping up beastmen in some Kislevite city. No sign of Felix.
-Another daemon invasion in Averland. This one too, just disappears as soon as it hits the walls of Averheim.
-Massive stone monoliths, big as skyscrapers grow out of the ground around the world. Become focal points for beastmen to flock to them.
-Riots in Nuln. Nobles attacked and either hanged or torn apart. Implied death of the Countess.
-The Tsarina is still alive in Kislev leading a counter-attack against Chaos horde.
-The Green Knight takes off his helmet and is revealed as Giles le Breton returned (later in the sample it says he killed Mallobaude).
-A multi-province Empire army defeats a Chaos army lead by Vilitch the Curseling as he besieges them.
-Chaos hoarde attacking the Great Bastion.
-Tomb Kings, Dwarfs, Greenskins and Orges all readying for war and Skaven launching large scale invasion on Tilea and Estalia, quite successfully.
-At the north pole 4 impossibly gigantic deamon armies are forming. 4 Exalted daemons bow to Archaon.
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- Haagrum
- PhD in Dark Magic
- Posts: 592
- Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:54 am
- Location: The depths of the Black Library
Re: Nagash
Naggaroth attacked by a "huge Khornate army", you say...
<crosses fingers for Cult of Slaanesh>
<crosses fingers for Cult of Slaanesh>
"The wrath of a good man is not to be feared. They have too many rules."
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."
"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good time to find out why I have so many."
Re: Nagash
Really excited with the mention of Druchii releases.
Also as a VC player, I'm naturally loving the love being shown to the Undead.
Also as a VC player, I'm naturally loving the love being shown to the Undead.
- CitizenKhaine
- Beastmaster
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:04 pm
- Location: New Zealand
Re: Nagash
at the end of this weeks White Dwarf, under the "The week in White Dwarf" it states "...while Naggaroth and Ulthuan both face vast Daemonic invasions..." Sounds interesting and I am hoping for a resurgence of the Cult of Slaanesh to go with it.
Not sure about the new lore of undeath, seems a bit like a sales gimmick to me. To cast the spells you need lots of models you currently don't have unless you are a VC or TK player.
Not sure about the new lore of undeath, seems a bit like a sales gimmick to me. To cast the spells you need lots of models you currently don't have unless you are a VC or TK player.
You're one microscopic cog in his catastrophic plan - Designed and directed by his red right hand - Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds (channeling Khaine)
Visit the Citizens of Khaine http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=75270
Visit the Citizens of Khaine http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=75270