1750 Chaos Marines - mass drop army, viable?

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Meteor
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1750 Chaos Marines - mass drop army, viable?

Post by Meteor »

Hi,

I'm not so familiar with 40k, for I stopped playing because of cover saves. I've been playing an odd game here and there with my CSM, and this following list piqued my interest, it kind of made 40k fun for me. Recently I swapped out my squad of 3x lascannon havoc squad with 4 bikers, but still, can I have some experienced feedback on how hard this list is, and how it'd measure up in a tournament environment? (I'm considering on taking it into a coming tournament).

HQ
Sorcerer Lord w/ MoS, Personal Icon, Lash of Submission & Termi Armour
3 Terminators w/ 1 Heavy Flamer & 1 Champ upgrade
Greater Daemon

Troops
5 Plague Marines w/ Icon, 2x Flamers, Champ upgrade & Rhino w/ Havoc
Launcher
7 Noise Marines w/ Icon, 7 Blasters, Champ upgrade & Rhino w/ Havoc Launcher
14 Lesser Daemons

Fast Attack
4 Bikes w/ 2 Plasma Gun, Icon of Chaos Glory (IoCG) & Champ upgrade
5 Raptors w/ Champ, IoCG, 2x Meltaguns
5 Raptors w/ Champ, IoCG, 2x Meltaguns

Heavy
2 Obliterators
2 Obliterators

1744

It's a Word Bearer themed army that I painted back in the previous ed, hence all the daemons. Everything normally starts off in reserve except for the bikes, plagues and noise marines. As I said, I recently swapped 5 Havocs with 3x Lascannons for the 4 bikes, I plan to turbo boost them towards cover in the enemy's territory, threatening to summon daemons at them in my second turn. I found in previous games, my summons were too far back in my own area because either the rhinos got bogged or blown up. And the Havoc squad was an immobile beacon that sits at the back of the board. Occasionally I actually am forced to summon my greater daemon or lessers through my Havocs because my icons or champs in the rhinos were all dead. So I'm giving Bikes a shot, that way I have one fast element that can be in position to allow deep strikers (except raptors) and daemons to pop out in a more convenient location.

Your thoughts? I suspect two sets of 2x Oblits might be like taking double Hydras?? I have zero perception of what is a good balanced list for 40k. Aside from obvious deathstar type units, I can't tell! :oops:
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued
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Demetrius
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Post by Demetrius »

You need more troops in all of your squads. 5 marines, even plagues, wont last long. Drop a raptor squad, and drop one oblit (making 3 left, run them by themselves for flexibility). With the points, get more bodies.

Also, the sorcerer could also use a familar and warptime.

Champions are not needed unless you give them a weapon, so take them out if your running them naked. An extra s4 attack and +1 ld is not worth 15 points, you could get another marine.

Combi meltas work well on terminators just in case they need to pop a tank, especially if your not running a fist in the unit.

With the noise marines, keep the champ and given him a doom siren if you can find points, they are devastating.
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Meteor
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Post by Meteor »

Hmm combi meltas on termis is interesting.

I took so many naked champs so the greater daemon has a host to pop out from. They're on raptors too incase they come before the daemon, then there's a champ further in to come out of.

I'll give your suggestions a try though, i can see how bigger units are better, especially for plagues. Should i keep the raptors at 5 man though? I normally deepstrike them at a tank and attempt to pop it, then they usually die.
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued
User avatar
Demetrius
Malekith's Best Friend
Posts: 1070
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:36 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by Demetrius »

Oh right, sorry I didnt link the dots between the greater demon and the champs lol , disregard that.

Hmm Im not sure about deepstriking raptors. Sounds good in theory but Id rather have a bigger squad and deploy them normally, because if they dont pop the tank they come down for, 5 marines is an easy kill point for the enemy.

Also, one further suggestion, havoc launchers are a waste if your rushing because the rhino wont be able to fire it.
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Gnosis
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Post by Gnosis »

As others said, take three Obliterators and field them on their own, they’re much, much for efficient that way. I see where you’re coming from since you used to field Havocs in another Heavy slot, but your shooting phase is going to be in better shape this way. Also I’d field one mid-sized squad of Raptors instead of two separate ones. They’re a rather mediocre unit anyway. If you do require the additional two meltas, I’d take them on your Bikers instead. Lastly, my opinion of Noise Marines is that they’re sublime for holding an objective as a firebase, so if you need to free up more points I’d try fielding them without a Rhino.

With these points freed up, I’d increase the size of your Plague Marines, possibly up to ten to fill out the Rhino. They’re a great tarpit, but just five bodies won’t cut it. I’d also try to get some more lesser daemons and split them into two squads, but it’s up to you.
Count them:

Painted in 2013: 500
Painted in 2014: 600
Painted in 2015: 854
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Meteor
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Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Location: Hell

Post by Meteor »

Thanks for the replies and suggestions, there are a number of them that I will definitely take on board. But at least many suggestions has made me ponder more on this list and other options available.

I will definitely be splitting my Oblits into the three heavy slots, I actually forgot I swapped out my Havocs for Bikes, thus having a spare heavy slot. Thanks for understanding that too.

I also agree with the Havoc Launchers too, to an extent. The Plague's Rhino will definitely have their launcher removed.The Noise's Havoc I might keep for the moment, until I've figured out what the points cost for everything that I'm going to change will be anyway. It's true that unit rarely moves, and I normally park the Rhino beside them to shield them from nasty weapons, meaning I have more opportunities to shoot with it. It's a nice additional piece of long ranged support weapon for the unit.

I'm not too sure about removing the Rhino from the Noise though, I find the Rhinos are a handy shield against first turn shooting since they have to pop the vehicle before the unit gets shot. Once the Rhino gets wrecked, it becomes a handy piece of cover for my marines for that opening turn if I didn't go first. Dunno, I might be wrong, but it has been useful especially for swiftly deploying my unit into position to shoot in one go at least.

The Plagues I'll definitely look into increasing their unit size considerably. Originally their job had been to drive up to something and flame them. But I might give them other jobs too as a bigger unit for more options.

And with the suggestion about splitting the lesser daemons up, can it be confirmed that it's better than combining them into one larger unit? I originally had them split into two groups of 7, but they died too quickly and often even bounced back when charging. I have found them to work better as a group of 14 now, but maybe two groups does work, but 7 in a unit may had been too small? What unit size is feasible?
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued
User avatar
Gnosis
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Posts: 3754
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 4:01 pm
Location: Southern Netherlands
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Post by Gnosis »

I field Lesser Daemons per 10 or 12, any smaller and they're only useful for grabbing remote objectives and shielding an advancing unit.

I'm personally a fan of Havoc Launchers on Rhinos, but I never play with vehicles in my lists.
Count them:

Painted in 2013: 500
Painted in 2014: 600
Painted in 2015: 854
User avatar
Meteor
Executioner
Posts: 1956
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:57 am
Location: Hell

Post by Meteor »

Ok here's an update of the list after taking onboard the suggestions given.

HQ
Sorcerer lord w/ termi armour, icon, MoS & Lash
3 Termis w/ champ upgrade, 2 combi melta & heavy flamer
Greater Daemon

Troop
8 Plague w/ 2 flamers, icon, champ upgrade & powerfist in Rhino
7 Noise w/ 7 blasters, icon & champ upgrade in Rhino
12 lesser daemons
13 lesser daemons

Fast Attack
4 bikes w/ 2 plasma gun, IoCG & champ upgrade
5 Raptors w/ 2 meltas, IoCG & champ upgrade

Heavy Support
Obliterator
Obliterator
Obliterator

1741


I like the addition of the second size-able unit of lesser daemons personally, how well it works practically, is another matter. But surely an extra scoring unit can't be so bad? Plus it further fluffs out the word bearer's theme as a bonus.

I don't exactly know what to do with that remaining unit of 5 Raptors to make it a more worthwhile unit. I've invested the points into bulking out the Plague squad and giving the champ a fist to punch on with. I don't know where else to find the points for the raptors, nor do I have the points for a familiar and warptime either.
What's mine is mine, What's yours is mine.
Now that we understand each other, lets get down to business.

Jacks -Shade
- WS 5 - - S 3 - - T 2 - - D 6 - - I 5 -

Equipment
Short Sword, MC Long Sword*, Dagger, RxB & RHB [20/10] MC Shade Cloak, 4 Throwing Daggers, 3x Healing Vials, 451C, [3]Dark Venom, [4]Unseen Chains, Food, Dark Steed- Spike

Skills
Basic Stealth, Awareness, TWF, Suithenlu Khythan, Ride

Magic Item
Eye of the Jabberwock

*Magical properties possibly imbued
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