Mordheim: Druchii Warband, Alpha²

Jhaelrnya · Post by **Jhaelrnya** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:45 am

Agreed. I have a friend begging to play Mordhiem, and I am putting it off until we get a playtestable list. Then I will start with the playtesting.

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:37 pm

Arq: I was only kidding!

Jhaelrnya wrote:Agreed. I have a friend begging to play Mordhiem, and I am putting it off until we get a playtestable list. Then I will start with the playtesting.

Well, the list is playtestable, since no one seems to have any issues with it...

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:42 pm

Phew *wipes forhead in a clichéd manner*

So should we continue to explore the possibilities of changes?

Jhaelrnya · Post by **Jhaelrnya** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:19 am

I'd like to see a general Warrior henchman. Even if they are limited in number, it would add some flexibility. At the moment, we have really, really expensive models. I would like to see something cheaper.

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:51 pm

Warrior Henchmen Cost 30gc
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 3 3 3 3 1 5 1 8
This is what I would suggest. If you had something cheaper in mind see below for my reasons why this cannot happen.

Cheapest Warrior
Profile M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 3 3 3 3 1 4 1 7
That, I believe, is as low as we can go for an Elf and should cost 25 gold to fit in to the list and be a viable option. (I4 does not seem right ot me at all)

Then I compared it to a human warrior for the same price. It has -1M, -1I.

That seems to be an unfair advantage, but when looking at the warrior stats the swordsmen price caught my eye (35gold). Compared to a Corsair this is lacking 1M, 2I and 1Ld. They have the addition of a special rules but that does not match up to the stats increase.

The stats for a corsair have not changed to my knowledge and the old warband always seemed pretty fair.
Elfs are known for there small earbands, if we had superior warriors at equal price then why were we not elite and numerouse?

The answer (or atleast a large part of it) is the warrior class henchmen the humans and other warbands use heavily. If we had the equivilent we would be as numerouse and still have the same strong profiles as before. This would completely unbalance the list.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:10 pm

They have the addition of a special rules but that does not match up to the stats increase.

Actually they get that skill at bargin price, it'd cost a hero 45gc to buy it in a one off game.

I meant something closer to a corsair in stat lines but somewhat cheaper for lacking both the ability to have a SDC or the stealth rule. Maybe we can limit the weapon selection to just that which a warrior might have in warhammer too, the lack of options is bound to make him somewhat cheaper.

So possibly:

Warrior 30 GC
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 4 4 3 3 1 5 1 8

May only use weapons and armour from the warrior list.

Spear,
Sword,
Dagger,

Repeater crossbow,

Shield,
Light armour.

And I think the corsairs should still be BS 4 since they loose too much as is.

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:35 pm

BS 4 and a repeater crossbow is the main reason we would take shades. This one has all the above but an extra 5 gold cheaper.

It is a good idea, with the current weapon choice he cannot be armed with any of the usual weapon combinations.

The stat line does not seem plausible to me rules wise and fluff wise. Rules wise this is an underling elf with stats better then shades and corsairs. Fluff wise if it could do what the stats suggest it would probably of been promoted and given better weapons to make better use of his/her abilities.

Can you think of a speacial rules that lowers there potential in te long run. The Orc warband has a rule similar for Goblins we could adapt (disguising it well of course).

Actually they get that skill at bargin price, it'd cost a hero 45gc to buy it in a one off game.

It costs 15gc for a BS or WS awell, yet we seem to value it at 5gc when pricing are characters. I don't think we can use that as a frame of reference. (My book says 40gc for a skill, has it been changed in the rr?)

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:47 pm

Blah.

I disagree with this warrior idea altogether. We're meant to have very expensive troops taken in small numbers, and having excellent stats. I just think that out current choice of henchmen is fine as it is. We don't need some cheap low-run henchmen - remember we're limited to 12 models maximum.

Arquinsiel wrote:And I think the corsairs should still be BS 4 since they loose too much as is.

The only reason why corsairs lost BS4 is so that people would stop taking only corsairs and no shades, and using corsairs as RXB troops. With shades being the only ones to have BS4, we now have what is quite obviously a missile troop (and making the corsairs BS3 makes them CC troops).
If corsairs are too expensive, why not just make them 5GC cheaper? That'll align their price with that of the shades.

Jhaelrnya · Post by **Jhaelrnya** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:17 pm

Drop the price of the Corsairs. Sure, they have access to SDC, but they have to buy that first.
The only problem I have is a BS3 elf. It makes my stomach ache

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:24 pm

Jhaelrnya wrote:The only problem I have is a BS3 elf. It makes my stomach ache

Heh...
This is Mordheim, not WFB - as such, you get slightly different stats (but that, you already know). There is, of course, a reason for this - Mordheim, in scale, is a lot smaller, a lot more "individual" than WFB. Perhaps the best corsairs have stayed at home, onboard or are some other place. Not all corsairs are as good a shot as missile troops, you know...
Of course, BS3 corsairs is logical, here, what with them being CC troops and us already having missile ones.

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:59 pm

A thought in response to another post: Powerful build is a freak occurance in Elf kind, yet we can have two out of 15 people with the skill. Can we drop it down to one member only.

Ansob. · Post by **Ansob.** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:26 pm

Mielkith wrote:A thought in response to another post: Powerful build is a freak occurance in Elf kind, yet we can have two out of 15 people with the skill. Can we drop it down to one member only.

Two out of twelve. Dark elf warbands are limited to twelve models, already. :roll:

I suggest getting rid of it entirely, and replacing it with the modified version of Arq's skill (which grants an additional parry [or a parry reroll - whichever is the opposite of what sword + buckler/ sword + sword does]).

Edit: sword + sword/buckler + sword grants a reroll of the parry. See Arq's new skill thread for the rest of my comment.

Jhaelrnya · Post by **Jhaelrnya** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:40 am

Of course, BS3 corsairs is logical, here, what with them being CC troops and us already having missile ones.

Yea, I know. And I have played Mord since the re-release, so I know stats can change. It's just an average BS elf doesn't fit in anywhere in any elf-kind (in almost any system). Maybe one or 2, but a whole type? It is unimportant anyways. One thing you can do is make it so Corsairs are unable to buy RxB at startup. Thyen they have to find them first, whereas Shades get them at startup. Just a thought.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:39 pm

Fluff wise if it could do what the stats suggest it would probably of been promoted and given better weapons to make better use of his/her abilities.

Fluff wise he's a standard druchii. Nothing special there.

This is Mordheim, not WFB - as such, you get slightly different stats (but that, you already know).

Read the dwarf warband, everything is exactly the same there.

We could just make the equipmment lists different for everybody, having the shades and warriors use one list, the corsairs another and heros a third. I'm sure it's been done before.
I always used shades in the old version, the ability to sneakaround and not be seen along with their higher initiative meant they were excellent ambush warriors (with the rules for charging conealed enemies and all).

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:05 pm

"Read the dwarf warband, everything is exactly the same there."
Coincidence or just laziness (probably coincidence). Besides this is one out of several. The fact still remains that stats can and will change.

"We could just make the equipmment lists different for everybody, having the shades and warriors use one list, the corsairs another and heros a third."

I like this alot. Could you write up what you feel should be in each list. We could just use a shade/warrior and corsair/Hero list with a *Corsairs may not purchase ranged weapons upon warband creation.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:23 pm

Well, heros are unchanged for now.

Warriors and shades:
Spear,*
Sword,
Dagger,
Axe,

Repeater crossbow,

Shield,*
Light armour.

Items marked with an "*" are warrior only.

Corsairs:

Sword,
Dagger,
Axe,

Light armour,
Sea Dragon Cloak,

Or somesuch.

Pale warrior · Post by **Pale warrior** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:09 pm

Well I have a question...In the equipment list the Darksteel Blade is listed as costing 15gc, whereas in the item description it is listed as costing 20gc. Which is supposed to be correct? Or are both correct, and Heroes can get it cheaper?

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:29 pm

THis isn't the place for that. Try searching down the forum since it's alkready been answered.

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:37 pm

Bucklers and shields for the Corsairs, Helmets for all. All the models minus shades have helmets on so it seems natural for them to have the option.

Could we put grappling hooks on the corsairs for fluff reasons (boarding ships).

Sorry for the abruptness of this post, have very limited time

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:39 pm

Grrr.... damn you and your remembering helmets.... *mumble mumble*........

You're right though, theys should al have the option (including shades). I still don't see corsairs using shields (a bit big for ship to ship fighting I would think) but bucklers might be an option.

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:18 pm

"Common 8 gc Boat Hook
These are normally used to pull in ropes or other objects from the water, but their long reach and wicked metal catches makes them also useful in combat.
Special Rules: Strike First, Two Handed. Boat Hooks are used in Close Combat. They allow the user to Strike First in the first round of any close combat, no matter which model charged, but require both hands to use. Models using a Boat Hook in combat cannot use any other weapons, or gain benefit from a shield or buckler, while in close combat."

A from the updated un-official pirate warband.

http://forums.specialistgames.com/mordh ... hichpage=1

They are attempting the same thing as us if you want to look at how they are doing it and lend a hand.

Back on topic, cosairs/pirates. Im sure you can see where I am going with this. We could intergrate these weapons for the Corsairs use. Extend there equipment list a bit with something uncommon.

I do not aprove of the new fey quickness and much prefer the old one. It can result in a complete waste of a skill. I know it was I who mentioned how anyone playing dark elfs learns to loathe this skill but every race has something along the same lines.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:34 pm

I seems to be just a crappy spear. I wouldn't bother with it.

Jhaelrnya · Post by **Jhaelrnya** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:10 am

I agree with Arq. First thing I thought when I saw it was "cheap crappy spear". I would just give them the option of using grappling hooks or just ropes.

Mielkith · Post by **Mielkith** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:38 pm

Agreed. It was a long shot at best.
On the equipment list. I can't see anyone taking shades if the warrior has the same BS, the same weapons and an extra weapon skill.
Perhaps a rule handicapping the warriors advancemnt.

Rank and File: Though equal in many ways the warrior does not hold much respect with others of his kind. As such it will take greater feets to be reckognised as the hero he or she might be.
The first time "Lads got Talent is rolled for a Warrior you must re-roll it.

Arquinsiel · Post by **Arquinsiel** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:43 pm

Agreed. It was a long shot at best.
On the equipment list. I can't see anyone taking shades if the warrior has the same BS, the same weapons and an extra weapon skill.
Perhaps a rule handicapping the warriors advancemnt.

Possibly leave shades as is then and use them like the novices from the shadow warrior warband? They already have the advantage of being far stealthier than most things in the game.

Rank and File: Though equal in many ways the warrior does not hold much respect with others of his kind. As such it will take greater feets to be reckognised as the hero he or she might be.
The first time "Lads got Talent is rolled for a Warrior you must re-roll it.

I liek this, maybe we can use it in some way for all the warriors though? Call it "Protecting my interests" or "keeping the commoners in their place" or somesuch.