Alpha 3 - or so it looks...

[Ansob.]

What does the "alive" mean? Shouldn't it be replaced with "not taken OOA"?

Yeah. I didn't comment on that, out of time.

And a typo in Shades' Natural Stealth description: The second sentence should probably start "If a Shade is hiding".

What is it now?

[Loflar]

And a typo in Shades' Natural Stealth description: The second sentence should probably start "If a Shade is hiding".

What is it now?

"If a Dark Elf is hiding"

[Ansob.]

"If a Dark Elf is hiding"

*goes back and edits*

[Loflar]

One more thing. In maximum profile, we have A5 while LRB gives elven maximum A4.

[Ansob.]

One more thing. In maximum profile, we have A5 while LRB gives elven maximum A4.

...and? This is the maximum elven profile as listed by the Lustria supplement. Unless they've added said profile in the LRB (which would imply having made one of the elven warbands official - damn, I need to redownload the LRB, or check any of the SG minisites, really... >.>), then A5 is our maximum - which is logical, since we're elves, agile and stuff.

[Loflar]

Well, if we are, biologically, the same elves as the Elf ranger is, then we should probably be limited by the same limits. (Actually, in this case, I only wrote "LRB" because I checked that and it is there as well, but the numbers are the same as in printed rulebook.)

[Jhaelrnya]

There is an Elven Stat Line in the LRB there for the Elven ranger. We should likely stick to that if we can.

[Lord aldarith]

Shall we keep the discussions going on the 3.5 thread ? Quite practical actually since it sums up the work done here... Anyway, I will do my new post there instead of here.

[Loflar]

3.5 is there just because I needed a list to show to other players here as I want to play DE in campaign. Development should stay in appropriate threads, as things are still changing... like Sectarism.

And here, I believe, we are still waiting for Arq and his skill poll.

There is one more thing which we could IMHO look at. Inter-warband relations. For example, Sisters of Sigmar have Righteous Fury special skill, which affects "evil" warbands. Does it also work on dark elves?

[Lord aldarith]

There is one more thing which we could IMHO look at. Inter-warband relations. For example, Sisters of Sigmar have Righteous Fury special skill, which affects "evil" warbands. Does it also work on dark elves?

I have re-read the rule recently and IMHO, the answer would be no. This rule, as I understand it, is against any kind of unnatural thing such as chaos monstrosities and undead or even skaven (nurgle monstrosities) - the rule says explicitly "that pollutes the soil of the Empire". Dark elves, even if twisted, are supposed (or like to think themselves) to be "masters" of these evil forces, so that they are not manipulated and can at least not be mutated by them as all other lesser races, but can indeed control them - which is at least partly true .
What I mean is that Righteous Fury concerns physically unnatural "things", not mentally perverted elves who have never whatsoever been mutated or brought back to life after their death or been summoned from the warp. Thus it should apply to new chaoslike bands (beastmen etc.) but not to DE. And besides, it is hard for a human to distinguish between high and dark elves, at least in the streets of Mordheim. They all look haughty, aloof and untrustworthy to them.

I had another question concerning the combination of "Excellent sight" (Initiative x2 to spot hidden ennemies) and the special modifier applied to shades (-1 to the Initiative of ennemy to spot him). Which one should be applied first ? My preference would go to the hidden rule of the Shade since even elves would have "twice" as much difficulty (i.e -2 on the distance instead of only -1) to spot them. That would also make it fairer compared to other races (the same proportion of penalty is applied) but that is just IMHO !

[Loflar]

What I mean is that Righteous Fury concerns physically unnatural "things", not mentally perverted elves who have never whatsoever been mutated or brought back to life after their death or been summoned from the warp.

Counter-argument: It works on Dregs. But otherwise you are probably right. If the warband "looks strange and evil", it would work on them.

I had another question concerning the combination of "Excellent sight" (Initiative x2 to spot hidden ennemies) and the special modifier applied to shades (-1 to the Initiative of ennemy to spot him). Which one should be applied first ? My preference would go to the hidden rule of the Shade since even elves would have "twice" as much difficulty (i.e -2 on the distance instead of only -1) to spot them. That would also make it fairer compared to other races (the same proportion of penalty is applied) but that is just IMHO !

I agree. It says "-1 to Initiative", which gives distance of 2x(I-1).

[Arquinsiel]

And here, I believe, we are still waiting for Arq and his skill poll.

Oh yeah... that.... erm... *hides*

I'll start sorting it out over the weekend, I really need to let all the early college work settle down.

[Geophrim]

Mod edit: eek! I can't post! I have no clue why, but it just freezes every time I attempt to go to new post. Sorry for intruding on your post, but I'll answer you like this.

Greetings all! I hope I'm not barging in on a closed forum. If I am, please ignore these ideas. I just thought I would offer them.

Not at all - the more of us there are, the easier it is to garner opinions.

1) While trying to think up a skill which would replicate the "Executioner" skill set, I was inspired indirectly by the Skaven skill "Art of Death". Before I get into such a skill, the reason I think this kind of skill is necessary is that, as of now, we no longer have any access for any of our characters to the "Strength" skill set since it seems that the "Powerful Build" skill is by concensus, no longer available (Am I correct, or is this debate still on going?).

You are correct; Strength skills were ruled out at the very beginning of development for being unfluffy.

Even on a charge, any of our heroes, armed with a 2H blade, will attack last. This eliminates our largest advantage--speed (I). While play testing our 3.5V of this list, I found that my characters desperately needed Str. boosts when fighting possessed and vampires. I just couldn't wound them without somethinng like a 2H weapon (but I, along with 1/2 my warband, was still getting killed off due to the "Strikes last, even on a charge" rule). While I would prefer to keep Powerful Build to deal with this kind of situation, my alternative idea is this:

Executioner Training:
"The hero still attacks first with a 2H weapon on a charge (basically the same as in WHF) but not when receiving a charge or in subsequent rounds of combat; and adds +1 to the injury roll results WITH A 2H WEAPON ONLY (basically to replicate the KB skill)."

I think this is fluffy, as it suits one of our most characteristic units, without replicating exactly, any single skill.

Okay, I'm not a great fan of this. It seems a bit overpowered, and most importantly, breaks the SSL (Short, Simple, Logical) ruleset when developing. If you can rework the way this is worded and make it way simpler, I wouldn't mind including it - we need at least one new skill. Make a new thread about it for people to discuss.

2) As for the on going MoPoison debate, I was thinking that, while it is NOT a replacement for Mighty Blow, it might be nice to do a comparison of advantages, disadvantages.

MB:
Pro: 1) +1 Str in CC all the time
2) no need for "upkeep" costs like giving up a rare search during off hours, or paying money to "buy" the ability in each battle
Con: 1) only for CC weapons

MoP:
Pro: 1) +1 str to BOTH CC and ranged weapons [in theory]--flexibility
Cons: 1) Upkeep cost of losing a rare search every game to either a) buy the poison for cheaper [in accordence with the "discounted price" model provided by ANSOB] or b) lose a rare search slot while brewing the poison (in the original model)
2) unreliable because either a) one must ROLL to find it as a rare item, even at the discounted slot, and thus STILL lose the rare search slot or b) if doing the d3-1 version, one still may lose the rare search slot.

My suggestion:
Since I like the discounted price model, try something like: The hero buys the reagents to create the poison. 20G [instead of 35G] for each dose's reagents, but no need to use up a rare search slot (since one is finding just the ingredients and not an actual "poison broker", so no "Rare 8" roll). The hero using MoP may not give the poison to other members of his warband, and it must be used in the next battle (since otherwise, he'd be spending all his time brewing--this keeps the power level down, and reduces it's flexibility).

This way, it's 1) a reliable skill, 2) doesn't use up a rare search slot, but 3) still has a counter-balance in the expensive cost paid and the fact that only the character who makes such an item can use it.

This is turning a little bit like something I had ion mind, yes. Ideally, I would rework the skill so that it does one of two things, either reducing the price or reducing the rarity. In my case, I don't think there's a point in having both and limiting it to the character with the skill, though that would certainly be a nice touch - actually, I like that idea quite a bit. That means I'll probably need to rework the skill trying to find a justification for limiting it to the character with the skill. I'll make a thread when my Intardnet decides to play nice again.

------
Anyway, I don't mean to steal anyone's thunder. I'm really impressed with how the Mord list is developing! Well done! Rgds, Geophrim

Thanks for the compliments. Stick around and give your insight (and you can playtest; that's even better). We need dedicated people.

[Geophrim]

Thanks for the warm welcome 'mate!

1) Hmm, I agree the Executioner Training skill is a powerful, but it seemed a bit weak by just letting 2H swords strike first on the charge only. We could do something simple like the Strongman skill, but that would basically turn us into clones of the Swordmasters of Hoeth. I made the skill just apply on the charge to weaken/differentiate it, but then it seemed too weak. Is there something workable with this that we can try? My inspiration, besides Executioners, is basically a hero like Ryld from Salvatore's Demonweb pits saga (although I'm rather annoyed/frustrated by his writing style, I like Dark Elf stories in general, so I read them while gritting my teeth)--Drow with large-bladed weapons.

Maybe an alternative that's more simple: "The hero can strike first with 2H weapons on a charge. In following combat rounds, he again strkes last, but now adds +1 to injury rolls."

I'm not sure if that's still too complex, but I thought it might be a bit more balanced...

2) As for MoP, yeah, I look forward to the new thread! I think MoP is really a fluffy skill, although the current version (d3-1) is really too buggy/unreliable. I think something more reliable is more key.

Cheers! Geophrim

Mod edit: no double posting, please.

Sorry, before I forget... As for a justification for limiting DV to the creator/MoP, I think a simple answer could be something like: "Due to the backstabbing nature of Dark Elves, Masters of Poison are loathe to provide dark venom to possible competitors. Only the MoP himself can use the poison he creates."

[Loflar]

MoP: Maybe just leaving out the part about cooking poisons when others search for rare items would solve it. I like it more than just lowering price - I am always struggling with lack of money, you know ;-) I will save farther whining for the MoP thread.

Another question. Is SDC an armour? In other words: can sorceress take it and still be able to cast spells?

[Ansob.]

Another question. Is SDC an armour? In other words: can sorceress take it and still be able to cast spells?

Hehe... I knew that would crop up eventually. As per the Lustria .pdf, the sdc is not armour but an item. Yes, your sorceress can wear it and still cast spells (it's a good thing it's back to 5+/6+ now, isn't it?).

[Loflar]

OK. Once I will have money and luck, I will buy her some. And then I will look forward for other players reactions ;-)

[Ansob.]

OK. Once I will have money and luck, I will buy her some. And then I will look forward for other players reactions ;-)

They probably won't be very pleased, unless you told them it was an item giving a bonus to your armour save as opposed to an actual piece of armour.

When they complain, tell them it used to be 4+ against shooting and 5+ in combat for me, will you?