Druchii Warband Revision - Pre-Beta Release

Discuss and participate in the development of the Mordheim Druchii warband here.

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Loflar
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Post by Loflar »

A neutral shade of black. wrote:Unless you're thoroughly opposed to that?

No, I was just a bit surprised that it is still there ;-)
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Ansob.
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Post by Ansob. »

Updating the Alpha has not been top of my considerations over the last few week. I got an abcess, sick multiple times, stupid people t tackle, a shitload of homework I couldn't do because I was sick... Well, the list goes on. It goes when we move to Beta 1, which is when we've got enough playtesting going.
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Post by Ghostelf »

Nice job on the warband guys.

Just to introduce myself, I am the co-creator of the new proposed Wood Elf warband on the Specialist Games Forum and on the Mordheimer's website.

Looking at your list I noticed the following:

(1) Shades - I think they are about 5gc to 10gc underpriced. I would recommend leaving them at 30gc and dropping their BS to 3 or lowering their leadership by 2 points.

(2) Corsairs - I would consider lowering their starting Ld to 7 for their price.

That was all that I noticed upon my first reading. Keep up the good work.

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Post by Ansob. »

I might take the Ld drop idea, but I'm waiting for a bit of playtesting first.

Concerning the prices: the shade's BS is 4, because the team as a whole wanted to establish a starting difference between corsairs and shades; we wanted them specialised in different fields, not merely one being a weaker version of the other. The combination of what more or less amounts to a corsair statline and the Natural Stealth rule should indeed place them probably at 40gc, but the restriction on numbers and equipment takes care, in my opinion, of balancing this.

One thing that does annoy me about the Ld drop is that these guys are elves, but then again...

Anyway, thanks for the comments. Let's just wait a bit before we make any extra changes. ;)
(Long Lived special rule is on the way out, I'm just waiting for some extra data.)
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Post by Cat-the-odd »

Hey ANSOB,

You're talking very often of "waiting for playtesting results". I'm a little bit concerned about this. It seems to me that noone plays... :?
My enemies and I are quite busy (painting) or they tell me thet want to play <real> Warhammer games. :x
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Post by Ansob. »

Steal their most prized possession and blackmail them into playing Mordheim. :P

The problem is, at this point, we can no longer develop rules without playtesting them. Our spot on the Mordheimer's website (with corresponding spotlight on the official Specialist Games forums) will hopefully bring us enough new players to make this work.
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Post by Arquinsiel »

I might be able to get a few games in over the next few weeks but it's rather unlikely and there'd be no progression used. Ah well.
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Post by Grfu »

I'm the GM of a mordheim campaign at my school. I will create a new warband using these rules and post my battle reports. I'll let you know if I notice anything that needs particular attention. However, this may be difficult due to lack of interest and conflicting schedules. I'll keep you posted if anything comes up.
Sure, I'll ally with you, but it will cost you. Then, when the battle is over, I will take both you and your minions captive. Now I'll have money and slaves.
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Post by Ansob. »

Any playtesting we can get is awesome. Thanks. :)

Be sure to post your results (as detailed as you can so we can see if anything's wrong, please) in the right thread (i.e. not this one, a sticky further down). Thanks again. :)
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Post by Cenyu »

Starting a campaign including the new Dark Elves warband rules though we also use some other modified rules.

- Nerfed akimbo hand weapon fighting (-1 to hit with off-hand weapon) - Introduction of combat skill which counters the malus)
- Improved use of armour (halved price for light, heavy, ithilmar and gromril armour + introduction of combat and tower shield (combat shield 10 gc, +1 armour save, +1 attack at base strength, counts as off-hand weapon; tower shield 10 gc, +2 armour save) - heavy & gromril armour and combat and tower shield deduce 1 from the wearer's initiative for all his initiative tests)
- Night fight rules (still unsure on the exact consequences of night fighting in Mordheim)
- Some new artifacts and equipment.
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Post by Cenyu »

Just for the record, I lost three games out of three. The warband is severely crippled and I'm inclined to start over new next week. Damnit.
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Post by Ansob. »

Severely crippled by the rules, or because you lost so much?
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Post by Sir entslayer »

hi there. i'm playing the lustria dark elves list for some months now (about 18 games so far) and I'm really fond of your list. i think you nicely negated the weaknesses of the lustrian list (no more powerful build, shades / corsairs are now equally attractive *choices, witchelves!!!!! :) etc...)

i know that ANSOB (and others) think that the rules shouldn't be changed anymore until some playtesting is done, but I'd strongly like to propose some nevertheless, or give some input to think about at least. having read through the five pages of comments (it took me hours, puh!) i realised that some major points were never in question (if i'm not mistaken):

*frenzy for WE. Fluffwise it's absolutely cool, but is it really meant to be, that they start with 3 attacks if carrying two hand weapons? and if they get A2, which is not too hard to get, they would have 5 attacks! is it really intended to be like that? i think 5 attacks is nasty for a henchmen... especially in combination of Maibd Poison. (which is my second point:)

*Maibd poison: I strongly recommend that it does not apply on stunned models or not stay at 4+. WE got I5 and thus likely to attack before any other race except other elves until they (the enemies) get I-advances. which means that WE must only be able to stun an enemy model to get a 50% chance that they can auto ooA it in the next DE-turn. and that's too strong in my opinion.

*armour for WE? i propose to avoid them from getting armour at all (weakens them considerably and is more correct fluffwise)
but maybe give them a 6+ ward save or anything else that they are not shot away too easily... (it shouldn't stack with step aside / dodge or fey quickness)

*take down: as I understand it, it could be that a slavehound is charging a possessed (for example) with T6 and W4, knocking it down DIRECTLY on a probability of 1/6 (16.6 %). or does the take down rule only apply for W1-models? (i think it should). otherwise it would mean that every slavedog is running round with a little "death spasm" spell in its mouth :)

so i'd like to propose the following:


1) replace current fervour rule with:

"fervour: Witch Elves, being intent on proving their battle prowess in Khaela Mensha Khaine's all-seeing gaze, granting them an additional attack."

2) Weapons/Armour: Witch Elves may be armed with weapons (although no armour) from the Druchii equipment list, barring all missile weapons.

3) adding a new rule: Khaine's Bride: The Witchelf enjoys a special blessing of Khaine thus is provided with a 6+ ward which does not stack with fey quickness and dogde/step aside.

4) replace current Maibd poison rule with:
Maibd poison: Witch elves, in battle, carry sacred weapons anointed in holy poisons traditionally used to paralyse slaves before their sacrifice. As such, any model which is Knocked Down will only recover on a roll of 4+. This effect lasts until the Dark Elf player's next turn.

OR: the witchelve's weapons are permanently coated in black lotus and no other poison can be applied to them additionally.

5) replace take down rule with:

take down: Take down Slavehounds are trained to catch fleeing slaves and drag them to a halt as fast as possible. On the turn a Slavehound charges, any result of 6 on the To Hit roll will result in one model in base-to-base contact being immediately Knocked Down . Since the Slavehound forgoes a more damaging attack to bring its prey down, it does not roll to wound this close combat phase. Note, that this rule only applies if the target has no more than one wound.

6) restrict master of poisons to 2 persons. (eg. the two lordlings, but they can give their vials to others as well...)

7) I share the opinion that "long-lived" should only apply for the VERY FIRST LGT roll, otherwise we'll never get 5 or even 6 heroes in reasonable time...

i hope that my propositions don't turn upside down everything too much but that's just what I would change or at least like to discuss...

greetings

Sir Entslayer

ps. I think it's good that the DE don't have access to throwing knives right from the start. because if a model got S4 and knive fighter, this would mean 3 S5 shots with a maximum of -1 penalty for cover (applying dark venom on the knives)...
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Post by Loflar »

Sir Entslayer wrote:*frenzy for WE. Fluffwise it's absolutely cool, but is it really meant to be, that they start with 3 attacks if carrying two hand weapons? and if they get A2, which is not too hard to get, they would have 5 attacks!

Well, this is how frenzy works in Mordheim... Insane hero can be like that as well. Plus frenzy also has disadvantages. Is it really such problem?

*Maibd poison: I strongly recommend that it does not apply on stunned models or not stay at 4+. WE got I5 and thus likely to attack before any other race except other elves until they (the enemies) get I-advances. which means that WE must only be able to stun an enemy model to get a 50% chance that they can auto ooA it in the next DE-turn. and that's too strong in my opinion.

It is strong, but in my experience (see my battlereports) not enough to be a problem. Plus WE are quite expensive.

*armour for WE? i propose to avoid them from getting armour at all (weakens them considerably and is more correct fluffwise)
but maybe give them a 6+ ward save or anything else that they are not shot away too easily... (it shouldn't stack with step aside / dodge or fey quickness)

I agree that they should not have armour, but giving them ward is even stronger.

*take down: as I understand it, it could be that a slavehound is charging a possessed (for example) with T6 and W4, knocking it down DIRECTLY on a probability of 1/6 (16.6 %). or does the take down rule only apply for W1-models? (i think it should). otherwise it would mean that every slavedog is running round with a little "death spasm" spell in its mouth :)

Interesting idea, but if it only applies to W1, than it means that dogs cannot take down halfling who advanced to W2. IMHO it would be better to exclude large targets.

"fervour: Witch Elves, being intent on proving their battle prowess in Khaela Mensha Khaine's all-seeing gaze, granting them an additional attack."

It would be easier just to give them A2.

6) restrict master of poisons to 2 persons. (eg. the two lordlings, but they can give their vials to others as well...)

Why? My hero who has it has only once made anything. In the end of game, she is mostly OOA... It is probably matter of playing style, but I would not give it to more then one hero anyway - getting new skills does not happen very often, because all heroes start experienced and most kills are done by henchmen.

i hope that my propositions don't turn upside down everything too much but that's just what I would change or at least like to discuss...

That's OK, they are not that big. And I consider the idea about taking down quite interesting.

ps. I think it's good that the DE don't have access to throwing knives right from the start. because if a model got S4 and knive fighter, this would mean 3 S5 shots with a maximum of -1 penalty for cover (applying dark venom on the knives)...

Good idea. I want throwing knives! ;-)
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Post by Cenyu »

A neutral shade of black. wrote:Severely crippled by the rules, or because you lost so much?


Because I lost so much. And because my RXBs come with standard issue rubber clips. And because Orcs are imba!1


Meh. :-/
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Post by Cenyu »

Hmm... just for the record: Are warplock weapons included in the "Disdain" rule?. I'd say yes but maybe it should be made clear.
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Post by Loflar »

Back to Hired Swords. I have just realized that there is more of them.

1) Fortune hunters. OK, they did not make it through the rules review, but the rules are still floating around and having a position about them would not hurt. Bard is unaccessible by its description, but what about Duelist, Bounty Hunter and Witch?

2) Empire in Flames. What about Highwayman and Beast Hunter?

3) Recent additions. Dwarf Slayer Pirate? Would he work with corsairs?
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Post by Cenyu »

Just a thought I came across fighting Dwarfs (rather unsuccessfullyy as you may have noticed. :D) - could we extend "Masteer of Poisons" to Black Lotus, too?

It costs less to acquire than Dark Venom so it does not impose a financial benefit but in certain circumstances the 6s automatical wounds seem more helpful than increased strength.
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Post by Cat-the-odd »

Rules Questions:
a) Does the Doombolt leap only between enemies or are the closes "models" affected?
b) Can the Doombolt be fired into CC? (I think not, because it is shooting phase)
c) Can the Doombolt leap into CC?
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.~~ /|...Real gentlemen play games which require skill, not tools.
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Post by Ansob. »

a) Enemy only unless there's a precedent for this (i.e. official FAQ, word from someone smarter than I am or other spell that's also been FAQ'd to answer that).

b) No.

c) Yes.

Sorry for the delay - new posts function's been acting screwy, so I never saw this. :?
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Post by Loflar »

I have heard that rules review is planned for this summer. If it is true, shouldn't we slowly finish the development and send the result to SG?

If I understand the current situation, we are now waiting for the next issue of Herald. However, summer is approaching, and I am slightly worried about the deadline for rules review.
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Post by Ansob. »

Nope, we're not waiting for the next issue of the Herald - that will feature some additional stuff, but the Alpha is independant of the Herald.

Anyway, from the PT results we've had, development is mostly done. I just need to fix typoes.

That, and it'd be nice if Kitrik could give us Jervis' email address so I can ask him what's up.
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Post by Cat-the-odd »

ANSOB wrote:Anyway, from the PT results we've had, development is mostly done. I just need to fix typoes.
Nice to hear this.
ANSOB wrote:That, and it'd be nice if Kitrik could give us Jervis' email address so I can ask him what's up.
Have you asked him already?

Thanks for the rules clarifications.
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Post by Ansob. »

Cat-the-Odd wrote:Have you asked him already?


Yeah, need to ask again.
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Post by Loflar »

Rules question:

Rolling 3-3-3 in exploration phase means finding prisoners. Possessed can sacrifice them, Skaven can sell them, others can provide paid escort service and get an experienced henchthing.

Which of these options are available to Druchii? What if the warband includes witch elves?
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