shouldnt cold one knights have extra T or something?

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should CoK have better stats to represent the no feeling?

yes
38
40%
no
44
47%
undecided
12
13%
 
Total votes: 94

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Gyulkus chaos saurus
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shouldnt cold one knights have extra T or something?

Post by Gyulkus chaos saurus »

according to their fluff they have the cold one cream on them and they cant feel anything, so to represent this does anyone else think that they should have +1 T?
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Mormacili
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Post by Mormacili »

The fact that don't feel anything does not make them any harder to kill. It just makes the killing of them a bit less upleasent.

T 4 elves is just silly (exept anoited offcourse). First you make the rules then you make the fluff I say.
And also in my opinion Chartage should be razed

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Gyulkus chaos saurus
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Post by Gyulkus chaos saurus »

yes it does, if u cant feel any pain u can take so many injuries. in vietnam in one of the battles the VC were high so they couldnt feel pain and would get shot about 20 times before they die
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Post by Alkkrision »

It doesn't make their skin any less harder to pierce though does it. They've got the armour to protect themselves, but seeing as they're only Elves, that's all they've got. Something like a sword to the chest would be worse than a gunshot seeing as it generally affects a wider area/limb.

The cold one slime numbs their senses, but they only wear it so they're not mauled by the cold ones. Cold One Knights themselves shouldn't be any tougher :).
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Post by Soulreaper »

I myself have thought of this exact thing. sure you could see it that way. but they are still fragile elves though. so I agree with the people saying that they shouldn't have T 4.

think about it this way.

if COK's got T 4 because of the slime. then if you mount our heroes on cold ones they would also have to be using that slime. making them have T 4 as well. quite nice for such a cheap mount.. ;)

and let's say you combine that with the magic armour that gives +1 T and +1W. that would make a T 5 elf with 4 wounds... that's one tough elf!!! :P (not to mention that he still has one hell of an armour save ;)
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Post by Darkesstemplar »

They wouldnt be toughers but perhaps something like a 6+ ward save like a feel no pain save....But in the end despite not feeling the pain you will still die just as easily
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Post by Dark shadow blade »

Possibly something like the Bionics special equipment of 40k Chaos.

Except you have to roll 12 on 2d6 to get it, so that it's nice, but not anything to write home about.

EDIT: In fact, it's downright terrible. It's like failing a leadership test on total anti snake-eyes.

How about: A +1 Armour save that reverts to a +2 armour save when wounded by armour piercing weapons, before you roll to save?
Last edited by Dark shadow blade on Fri May 13, 2005 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Jazperdude »

I've always wondered ... cold one knights are so bloody expensive, and you pay alot of points for the +1 toughness on the cold ones profile ( which is never used but does cost you ) why don't they just drop the +1 toughness of the Co ? after wounds it is the most expensive stat to boost.

And isn't the slime included in the added armour save from riding a cold one? or is that just for the scales.
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Post by Mormacili »

I've always wondered ... cold one knights are so bloody expensive, and you pay alot of points for the +1 toughness on the cold ones profile ( which is never used but does cost you ) why don't they just drop the +1 toughness of the Co ? after wounds it is the most expensive stat to boost.



Why do belive they pay for their mount's T. Okay GW does some dumb things, but they ain't that stupid
And also in my opinion Chartage should be razed

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Post by Dark shadow blade »

That's how they work out the points value for a model. For each race, or possibly just generically(I'm not sure which), they give each stat an arbitrary worth in points.

We pay an extra 2-3 for extra toughness. That's assuming we have it. I don't remember the exact stats for CoK.
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Post by Columind »

Ahh...another CoK discussion about how they could be better.
I think these kinds of discussions repeat themselves because DE players do have a sort of trauma of seeing such cool models with such cool fluff being killed or uneffective against most of their foes...very expensive too.
Stupidity, cost and charge range are often to blaim, as CoK are an average heavy cavalry in my opinion, hardly 100% reliable, even on charge because of their low numbers, but they have their uses if used correctly.
I think we just have to face the facts and assume that the slime as nothing to do with it, if Co slime should have an effect it would probably be more fluffier to say their are immune to pshychology(except for stupidity of the cold ones), since their sences are numbed and they don't feel a thing, so they shouldn't feel bothered, in their numbed state, to be charged by a dragon or feel fear at all.
In any event, elves will always be To3, we're not lizards not chaos, so you just have to...deal with it!
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Gyulkus chaos saurus
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Post by Gyulkus chaos saurus »

ok, not +1 T your right it doesnt make sense, but a 6 + ward save or something like darkess templar said, maybe 2 wounds or something. if u get your chopped off it wont kill u but it will make u drop in pain, if u cant feel pain, then u wont fall down.
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Post by Lord k »

saying that because they cannot feel pain makes them invulnerable is quite possibly the most retarded thing i have read on these boards.

i mean are people in wheelchairs somehow invincable because they are unable to feel pain?
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Post by Azure »

these discussions are almost always spawned from someone who hasnt used COK's enuf to know how to use them complaining


they are ab excellent troop mainly just to attract fire... and when they charge they can kill alot... they will have a hard time beating static CR but thats why this is a tacticians army...
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Gyulkus chaos saurus
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Post by Gyulkus chaos saurus »

im not saying tyat there invincible, but they would be harder to kill. try chopping a crippled guys legs(actually dont) and hes not going to be incapacitated, hell act normal until the loss of blood starts to affect him. im not complaining im just saying they dont fit with their fluff
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"He's not sleeping Caboose, hes dead."
"Oh, i thought he was me because, I like to sleep a lot, but if he is dead he cannot be me, because that would be silly."
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Post by Viper121349 »

Gyulkus chaos saurus wrote:im not saying tyat there invincible, but they would be harder to kill. try chopping a crippled guys legs(actually dont) and hes not going to be incapacitated, hell act normal until the loss of blood starts to affect him. im not complaining im just saying they dont fit with their fluff
It just burns me up :evil: that they can't feel yet they don't get some kind of bonus to toughness and their mounts don't get any help either and their scales are impossible to pierce.
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Post by Slayer69 »

I believe that the CoK arte a bit overpriced at the moment!
I think that they should get another attack like they used to have in (I think it was ) 5th Edition!
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Post by Anaryin »

Guys, this is the History of the Druchii forum, not ideas forum ;) If you want to discuss the extra T for CoK from a fluff point of view, go ahead, but if you want to think on ideas and alternative rules, please create a thread on Ideas forum.

As for the thread, I think the slime just numbs them a little, but doesn't makes them more harder or tougher. Also, the analogy with shots is somehow wrong. One shot hits you in a small area while a sword swing may rip one arm off or cut a deep wound in your chest.
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Post by Neanderthal05 »

I think that rather than +1T they should be able to attack again even after being fatally wounded to represent the fact that they will be wounded and eventually die from the wound but they will keep on fighting as normal until they die.
Well, at least all of your arm waving and arcane babbling was impressive.
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Post by Gibious »

i do agree with Gyulkus chaos saurus at the begining but i would also say the people in d war were just as weak they just didnt know they were ment to be dead

for this i would propose instead of a new toughness and rule to the riders.
When they are waounded they roll another D6 and if it is 5+ they dont notice they are dead they dont actualy loose the wound till the end of the next CC or something

well what you think
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Post by Mord. »

giving them toughness 4 would only make them more expensive and will do fairly little to upgrade their effectiveness. Though it is a good compensation for their stupidity I think it is uncharacteristic to elves and better left out as a whole considering characters only have toughness 3 it would be rather silly to have "standard" units with toughness 4.

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Post by Ezkael »

C´mon, elves have T 3 and that´s it. Giving them T 4 would only make them unrealistic (like anything in the warhammer world is realistic). But with their high WS and their high I they can defeat almost any opponet, so why increase their potence, as they surely don´t need it?
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Post by Oldone »

Off topic I'm afraid but I just can't let the blade vs. shot thing go. The real world is not Hollywood! Gunshots do not just affect a small area - they affect the entire body. A blade is a slow moving object, and so affects the area it cuts, but little else. If it cuts the heart or a major vessel you die relatively quickly (usually blood loss); otherwise you probably survive until infection gets you or you get better. A bullet is a very fast moving object - when it hits you it causes massive trauma over the area immediately around the wound, and hydrostatic shock causes damage to the whole body. You can die from a bullet impact that doesn't hit anything vital.

On topic - the slime doesn't do anything except numb the senses. Druchii should be too mentally tough or too proud to be affected by pain anyway, so no COKs shouldn't have any extra stats to reflect it.
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Post by Kin'eleth »

toughness 4 elves! thats just stupid.
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Post by Pmpn8ez »

Just because you can't feel something does not mean that it doesn't have the same affect on your body. Whether you can feel it or not, a mortal wound is a mortal wound and after however much time, the body will die. Maybe the lack of feeling could be represented by some kind of psychology bonus at the very most, but they already have ld9 so that's good enough for me.
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