The Convent of the Sorceresses

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Dam
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The Convent of the Sorceresses

Post by Dam »

Hello,

I'm a warhammer fantasy role player and I ve any questions about the dark elves background.

I'm searching for a magical adaptation of the Sorceresses's Dark Magic.

Do you know any works about it ?

I would like to build a bigger background for the Sorceress Convents.
I knew there are six convents, but what's their story ? who's their actual leader (of each one) ?

I know the essential from the army book, but there are certainly others sources.

thanks ;)
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Post by Ubergeist »

G'day there.


As a fan of magic and all of its eldritch properties, I too have had a fascination with the Sorceress Covenants, especially their role in society.

Obviously, I imagine that they command enormous respect, fear and power. As the Black Arcs can only be piloted by them, they form the backbone of the Druchii navy. As all magical endeavors, wards, protections and requirements of an army are up to them, even the most proud of Druchii Lords and Ladies must satisfy this covenant - or have family within them - if they wish to truly propel themselves above the mundane ranks of nobles and into the echelons of nobility that vies for Malakiths favor.

From the Sorceresses position, I have always imagined them to be far more potent than their High Elven kin, but with fewer numbers.

The reason for this is the the nature of the Druchii themselves. Normal politics and backstabbing is bad enough, but throw supernatural powers into the mix? Only the best are going to survive to reach any position of prominence. Through their survival-of-the-fittest philosophy, as well as the enormity of the coruscating energies that they channel through their bodies, the Druchii sorceresses are, individually, more powerful and capable magic users than any of their High Elf counterparts, but are much fewer in number.


I might elaborate further later on, but that is it in a nutshell from me at the moment.
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Post by Red... »

even the most proud of Druchii Lords and Ladies must satisfy this covenant - or have family within them - if they wish to truly propel themselves above the mundane ranks of nobles and into the echelons of nobility that vies for Malakiths favor.


In 6th edition we are informed that there is sect enimity (sp) between the Cult of Khaine and the Covenant of Sorceresses. That suggests you can get to the top of Druchii society without needing to be in good favour with them, but to do so you need to be favoured by an equally powerful section of Dark Elf Aristocracy.

From the Sorceresses position, I have always imagined them to be far more potent than their High Elven kin, but with fewer numbers.


It's a nice idea, but without any lore to back it up it doesn't really stand up. You may well be right, but I think I'd need more to be convinced by it.

Druchii sorceresses are, individually, more powerful and capable magic users than any of their High Elf counterparts, but are much fewer in number.


Hmmm. High Elves get +1 to their dispel attempts and live in an island that is at the centre of the world's magic energies. Dark Elves have power of darkness and ability to use more dice than our levels, but we also live out in the cold, barren mountains of Naggaroth. I'd say their magic users are pretty equal to ours.
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Post by Ubergeist »

Hmmm. High Elves get +1 to their dispel attempts and live in an island that is at the centre of the world's magic energies. Dark Elves have power of darkness and ability to use more dice than our levels, but we also live out in the cold, barren mountains of Naggaroth. I'd say their magic users are pretty equal to ours.


The Sorceresses used to get a +1 to cast, until someone thought it was an awesome idea to take that away while leaving them roughly the same price. You'd imagine that a survival of the fittest academy of wizardy would produce magic users of greater cunning and ability than the elven version of Hogwarts, but that would make too much sense for Games Workshop.

Also, please note that I am saying things as -I- see them, not necessarily how they are presented rules wise.

It's a nice idea, but without any lore to back it up it doesn't really stand up. You may well be right, but I think I'd need more to be convinced by it.


Indeed matey, but that is the point - next to no fluff actually exists to back anything up really. Well, thats a bit of a fib, in Warhammer online this dark mage of genius druchii lady just stands there and watches as a high elf approaches and shoots her in the throat with an arrow and instead of doing anything about this rider all of her guards and apprentice wizards just gather around her to watch her die and allow the high elf to ride off (yes, it is as stupid as it sounds), but other than that, I haven't seen much to go by. Thus why I fill in the blanks for myself!

Literally, I am filling in the blanks for myself :p, I'm writing fantasy romp novel from the PoV a sorceress.

In 6th edition we are informed that there is sect enimity (sp) between the Cult of Khaine and the Covenant of Sorceresses. That suggests you can get to the top of Druchii society without needing to be in good favour with them, but to do so you need to be favoured by an equally powerful section of Dark Elf Aristocracy.


That maybe so, but given that the Black Arcs are piloted by the sorceress and maintained by them, I know who I'd rather be trying to gain favor with (after I moved out of one of the crazies khaine cult cities).
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Post by Red... »

The Sorceresses used to get a +1 to cast, until someone thought it was an awesome idea to take that away while leaving them roughly the same price.


Yes, certainly a shame, but I guess they wanted to distinguish us from Tzeentch mages (who do get +1 to cast).

You'd imagine that a survival of the fittest academy of wizardy would produce magic users of greater cunning and ability than the elven version of Hogwarts


Not really. They have access to all of the accumulated elven knowledge on magic since the dawn of the elves. Our 'academy' would have substantially less archives of knowledge to draw upon. Also, by culling the least brutal of their ranks, the druchii would in fact risk losing many wise and adept potential sorcerors. I'd hold that, if anything, the slippery slope of ascension to power would make our sorceresses more brutal, but less overall adept with magic.

Indeed matey, but that is the point - next to no fluff actually exists to back anything up really.


Yeah, I appreciate what you are saying, but if you are inventing lore yourself you have to remind your readers that you are presenting fan fic rather than actual lore. As long as you do that, you're fine :)

That maybe so, but given that the Black Arcs are piloted by the sorceress and maintained by them,


Perhaps. I think you are forgetting how brutal dark elf society is. Wouldn't take much to coerce a sorceress or two to do your bidding if you came from the cult of khaine... "holiday on the altar of blood or free travel for a year? what's that? yeah, I'll get my stuff for the ferry ride :P"
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Post by Drainial »

The way I read the background I think there is prehaps an argument for fewer more powerful dark elf sorceresses and more, less powerful high elves.

Now at the top levels the two are probobly more or less the same, possibly the lore masters do infact have better resources. But there is mention in the high elf army books that farmers around Saphery don't have to work a day in their lives because low level initites are encoraged to practise their arts by helping out. I see this as meaning that alot of elves come to the white tower, but few are ever going to reach battle mage standard (level one) let alone become lore masters.

In the 5th ed dark elf army book (I cannt remember if there is anything similar in the current one, I don't have it handy) there is (I think) mention of a very dangerus admission procedure to enter the convent as a full socererss. Combined with the syle of teaching (I am thinking that initites are encoraged to take as much power as possible, meaning that many would fail to control it at some stage) that would probobly mean that all those low level initites never make it into a convent. Plus half of the magical talent gets killed off anyway so thats going to drop numbers by a fair bit.

Its all extraoplation, but the foundations are there.
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Post by Ubergeist »

Not really. They have access to all of the accumulated elven knowledge on magic since the dawn of the elves. Our 'academy' would have substantially less archives of knowledge to draw upon. Also, by culling the least brutal of their ranks, the druchii would in fact risk losing many wise and adept potential sorcerors. I'd hold that, if anything, the slippery slope of ascension to power would make our sorceresses more brutal, but less overall adept with magic.



Not necessarily. I wouldn't mistake ruthless 'toughening up' with needless waste. I imagine Sorceress training to be much similar to the Spartan method of ensuring quality over quantity, to cultivate an elite. Sure some will perish, that is without a doubt, but the resulting batch are superior to other races equivalent because of it, just fewer in number. I also imagine that the sorceresses have huge swathes of arcane wealth themselves, in the form of what they have had back on Nagarythe, what they have plundered during their raids and conquests of the High Elven lands, and also what they have taken from the looted temples of the Slaan (which gets a specific mention in either this, or the last edition of the rulebook, not sure which mate). Then there are the raiding and plundering expeditions they send to the other races, such as the races of man. So I believe that the Sorceresses possess a rich depository of lore.


Yeah, I appreciate what you are saying, but if you are inventing lore yourself you have to remind your readers that you are presenting fan fic rather than actual lore. As long as you do that, you're fine


Indeed :), which is why I started off with 'I imagine...'. Considering that there is next to no lore written for the sorceress covenants, it gives a lot of room to theorise and speculate.

Perhaps. I think you are forgetting how brutal dark elf society is. Wouldn't take much to coerce a sorceress or two to do your bidding if you came from the cult of khaine... "holiday on the altar of blood or free travel for a year? what's that? yeah, I'll get my stuff for the ferry ride "


Hmmm, I'm not too sure. The Cult of Khaine is indeed powerful, but so are the sorceress covenants. If said sorc was in a Khainite city like hag graef (if Im getting that right, if I'm not, just say), then yeah, you're probably right. But just like any priesthood, their influence gets weaker the further out from their cities. Like wise, I can imagine members of the cult of Khaine could be scarred of winded up as a sorcs next 'offering' to a demon lord, or test pet in a magical experiment, or offering their body parts for ritualistic purposes and what not.
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Post by Sezax »

Well my opinions about sorceresses are generally this:

http://sezax.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/t ... oremaster/

http://sezax.wordpress.com/2009/08/04/w ... he-wicked/

They shall probably seem very controversial to many people. Anyway I often wonder how does life in Convent look and how tough ,,the exam tests" really are.

And I of course love idea of lesbian love between sorceresses and witches.
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Post by Darkdoom »

I doubt that a real talant in magic would be wasted by killing her. We darkelfs are crule, yes, but (with the exeption of The Cult of Khaine) not stupide in our hate. If there is a weak but talented woman she will be most likely be use by some one stronger and mabey tortured a bit but her value for the dark elf society will still exist.
In the citys The Cult of Khaine is defenitly more powerfull than the Sorceress Convents, but you don't nesecarrily have to be their best buddy not to be killed, only smart (well, being powerfull and/or wealthy never hurts). A low level mage will indeed probably be easy to be bound to the will of some one powerfull enough to command a black ark, though I doubt that a low level mage would be strong enough to move such a colossal castel.
I like the idea of a cat/mud fight between withches and sorcess's :twisted: !
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Post by Drainial »

Power is to be feared as well as exploited, particularly as the more powerful sorceresses would want to remain unchallenged. A weak willed but magically powerful sorceress would be a liability as she may well fall under the influence of someone with the brains but not the brawn to challenge the heads of the convents in areas where they were previously dominant. It would be unlikely that there would be an official policy of extermination but, well, accidents happen.

As for the temple, well certainly it would be a powerful force, but I doubt that sacrificing a sorceress would be an easy thing to do, not only physically (pity the poor executioner who gets to arrest someone who can suck his soul into hell with all his friends for company) but politically as well.

Khainite "Holiday on the altar of blood or free travel for a year"
Sorceress "Get out of my sight or I turn you into a small potted plant then tell Moraithy what you were doing here."
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Post by Nathaneal_deathchaser »

What gods do they worship? I am under the impression that they folow Slanessh.

But I read elseware that they worship Helkari - Goddess of Dark magic.

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